confused re:endopelvic fascia

It seems like you are trying so hard to work with your p.t. and instead of developing this WORKING WITH relationship she just wants to do things TO you. And she even went so far as to suggest that surgery is GREAT with NO PROBLEMS which we all know is NOT supported by scientific research.
I think it is ridiculous of her to suggest the information about Whole Woman is outdated. It is in fact cutting edge- commonly used literature about prolapse is based on a premiss that is so outdated it is from 100 years ago- and that is what your p.t. learned in school-

Let your body be your guide. Does WW posture feel good to you. Does doing the work out feel right? Does it help your symptoms? Then go for it and ignore your p.t.

Dear Pat,

You entered into a relationship with Physical Therapy and are now gaining the ‘benefit’ of the total knowledge and experience of that field. I would suggest you go along with the PT treatment, since that is what you signed up for.

As for the pelvic pain society, it is nothing more than what has been interpreted and professed by gynecology for the last 100 years - as Alemama said. Their invasive treatments are based on misconceived perceptions of female anatomy.

There is only one pelvic organ support system, which has nothing to do with vaginal wall strength or suctioning the walls together through pelvic floor contractions. As I have said a thousand times before, those notions are based on an inaccurate picture of reality.

The only time the walls are TRULY suctioned together to a closed, airless, supportive, virtual space is when the bony pelvis itself is nutated (STWW p.15). When we spend our lives in counternutation, the endopelvic fascia does indeed stretch and the pelvic interior becomes destabilized.

This is the ONLY reason Alemama, Granolamom, Stella, Bad_mirror, Louise, Kiki, Me, Sweetiluv, Sandy-Joy, Marie, and untold numbers of others have gained excellent and permanent results with this work. The Whole Woman work does not address uncommon causes of pelvic pain, although we have known pelvic pain to resolve through this work. As you know, the uterus is the hub of the wheel and we are only now trying to determine the extent to which post-hyst women can benefit from the postural work.

As to Alix’s PT’s comment that the postural work is not the end-all-and-be-all, I disagree. Returning to our pelvic organ support system is the ONLY thing to do to move the organs back toward their original positions. Reversing prolapse is not something that can happen through 1xday or 2xday exercises. We all know this. Although exercise is vital for staying in a condition that can withstand the stresses of life and aging, the real engine of prolapse reversal is living in the framework that evolved to properly suspend our organs.

PT and gynecology are up sh** creek without a paddle on this one. That is why none of these “professional” and “big-wig” sites have forums with real women talking back and forth to each other. Women see physical therapists for a limited time and it is our experience that women generally scratch their heads trying to figure out if PT actually helped.

I really do encourage you to get your own data from your time with your PT. However, I also ask that you not continue to defend the WW work, because there is no common ground.

Christine

as a PT, I have a question.
If strong pelvic muscles, as evidenced by the ability to perform and hold a strong kegel contraction, are unable to prevent a prolapse, how will kegels reverse a prolapse?
and suppose it could. so is the goal for a woman with POP to walk around all day holding a kegel contraction?
I am not saying there is no value to kegels, and to strengthening weakened muscles. the value is probably most clear in the situation of a stress incontinence.
another question I have is why do some women prolapse a few days or weeks after birth and not immediately? If its all about stretched out/weakened muscle it should happen immediately after birth.

the day I found out I was pg with my first, I started kegels. I was religious about it, and I knew I was doing them 'correctly'. I could practically crack walnuts with those muscles. and still, I wound up with a prolapse.

It amazes me how my fellow PT's don't see the obvious link between posture and prolapsed pelvic organs that christine describes. I know I didnt' see it before reading christine's book, I never really thought past my training.
but having been in a position where I knew all the 'right' things to do for myself (PT-wise) and none of it helping, I knew I had to look for something else. To me, the posture makes sense and it feels right. and more than that, it works where months of kegeling didn't.

I don't know about the conflicting info on that site you mention, but in my early prolapse-days I spent lots of time reading and found lots and lots of conflicting info.
I chose to throw myself wholeheartedly into this program for 6 months and then reassess my situation.

I wasn't sure from your post, but is your PT suggesting that this work could make your prolapse worse?

and maybe kegels are needed to strengthen those specific muscles, and I believe that kegels can strengthen muscle, but I doubt that strong pubococcygeal muscles will hold up a bladder and uterus.

there's a concept of functional training too. a swimmer needs strong arms but if all she does is lift weights, it won't translate to faster swimming. swimming is the way to train for swimming. kegels may increase strength, but what will that do for me when I'm walking around? I keep shaking my head here, because weakened pelvic 'floor' muscles are the red herring here. fairly irrelevant to managing a pelvic organ prolapse.

I didn't feel you discounted the work, Pat. I just find PT frustrating because they can't/won't defend their theoretical position. It does you no good to keep trying to convince them of something they cannot accept because it would blow the doors off their entire practice.

{{{Hugs}}}

Christine

Pat, if it was that easy to understand the female pelvic region, conventional medical models would have it figured out by now ... but they haven't.

Einstein is quoted as saying, "Insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expectng different results." That is what they are doing.

I am sorry that you have come to this impasse with the physio. It's like they cannot debunk Christine's work, but they don't have anything better to offer. I don't think they know what to do about Christine. Studiously ignoring her work seems to be the best they can come up with, because they don't have to challenge their own reality, which is the basis of their business.

Either they read the book and watch the DVD and try and work out the truth, or they can give them back to you, and carry on with their heads in the sand, which is not a very professional approach to giving your clients the best treatment they can, for their money. I don't think pursuing Christine's work with them will get you any better treatment, and that is, after all, what you are there for. On the other hand, if you think that aspects of your treatment are helpful, then continue with that for your own reasons, but I wouldn't really expect them to allow you to prescribe the treatment you receive.

See how you go. You are in charge of your health, and ultimately you seem to have a better understanding of your pain than they do. You are certainly the one who has to live in your body. It can be so frustrating.

Louise