Regarding how to live without surgery with a prolapse

Submitted by Devi on May 7, 2010 - 9:28pm
Body: 

I had a total hysterectomy in 1988 and for the past two years due to a prolapse have been working with pelvic floor muscle exercises, biofeedback and kegels and very recently the condition got worse and went to a cystocele 3 . I discovered a company that sells a fembrace or vbrace and when I am wearing that or wearing tight jeans or tight dungaree shorts I can walk around or go to the gym and exercise on the elliptical trainer. I have bought the WellWoman book and DVD and am working to maintain a correct posture. I have access to both a pool and the ocean and find that when I use a noodle in the water that offers helpful support. I have said no to surgery. I would love to have feedback on the choices I am making and would like help on this journey. Thank you.

heavenly

May 8, 2010 - 10:27am

Hi Devi,
I have only been on this forum for 3 weeks so am also new. You are in the right place, in my opinion, the only place. You will receive more support than you could ever believe possible!! At this time I am not the one to give you advice in this area but there are others here who will get back to you with information that might help or will direct you. They are more experienced than I am right now. So this is just a welcome note to let you know we care and love you already! You will not walk alone!

Christine

May 8, 2010 - 1:01pm

Welcome, Devi,

I think your choice to not have further surgery makes good sense. You will have to live with these bulges, which is doable as you already know. What you want to prevent is the vagina turning inside out, as it has lost its central support system. In women with a uterus, the best way to do that is through the WW postural work and we are hoping this is the case with post-hyst women as well. Kegels often aggravate a severe prolapse, which I have written about extensively. Remember that bulgy front and back vaginal walls support one another. It may be a nuisance, but there is still some support there. My hope is that the WW posture will help stabilize these bulges for the long term in some percentage of post-hysterectomy women. If you have a sense that the vaginal vault is coming down from what is now the ceiling of your vagina, you will want to stop and re-evaluate your condition with the help of your doctor.

WIshing you well,

Christine

alemama

May 8, 2010 - 3:16pm

Sounds like you have done well for about 20 years. I am glad you are finding the supports (v2 and fembrace) helpful. I am not sure I would recommend tight jeans because that puts too much pressure on the abdominal contents. What you want is loose around your waist but tight and supportive in the crotch. I have no idea how you can get that.
Christine, what is your opinion of firebreathing and Nauli for Devi? I think it might bring the intestine forward and into the place where the uterus was and pull the bladder up and forward.
Davi, you might like to research the downward dog position and work to keep your hamstrings very loose.
So sorry you are dealing with this.

Devi

May 8, 2010 - 5:45pm

Have you any experience with the Fembrace Vbracesupport garment? I find it helps but it is tight around my waist. I have seen three gynocologists this month and while they suggested a pessary I hesitate because I have not taken hormones and the lining is thin and I don't want any further compkications. One Dr. suggested Premarin cream and so I found another Dr. who wrote me a script for bioidnetical hormone cream called progestriol which I think is safer to use. I was prescribed and sent a home stim biofeedback machine called a STM-10 from the Prometheus group. I think it acts as a biofeedback type machine for functional stimulation . I have a greade 3 cystocele. My bladder does crown the vagina and the Dr. said I have a vaginal vault prolapse, posthysterectomy. A anterior vaginal wall prolarse just apical to the hymaen and significant fascial thinning versus a defect in this area at the apical anterior vagina. Mild associated apical prolapse. Both surgeons wanted to to do urodynamic testing. I am resistant to having Dr's do anything further. Any thoughts? Thank you.

louiseds

May 9, 2010 - 3:38am

Hi Devi

Have you taken a look at the Hystersisters Forums, at www.hystersisters.com? I know that you probably don't want to 'go there', but the women have all had, or are going to have hysterectomy, so you will get a broad variety of input from lots of women who have experienced loss of the uterus. There are not many Members of Wholewoman who have had hysterectomy. You are quite welcome to stay with us as well.

Louise

meribelle

May 9, 2010 - 7:50am

About a year ago I bought the healing the whole woman book, but I have not been doing the pelvic exercises faithfully. I can tell I am very prolapsed. I had a pelvic ultra sound 3 days ago and suspect the doctor may recommend surgery. I am going to say no. I am not physically comfortable with the prolapse, but neither was I physically comfortable when I had a bladder suspension and a rectoceal (I think I spelled it wrong) many years ago. I have been trying to be better about doing the exercises. I can tell it is working. My muscles are all out of shape, so no wonder everything is falling out. I pray for perseverance to keep on doing the exercises. It is comforting to know I am not the only woman with this problem.

Judith

May 9, 2010 - 8:44am

Hi Devi
I have tried the Fembrace and the V2 Supporter, which is really for vulval support during pregnancy. IMO, the Fembrace is the more supportive but, as you say, it is also quite high and tight around the waist. The V2 is less supportive but is very low, like hipster pants, so it feels less constraining. I wonder if it might be more supportive if used in conjunction with a very thick sanitary pad, such as a maternity nighttime one.
I found that both have their drawbacks, re comfort and aesthetics, but may be worth it for relief of POP symptoms.
Personally, I would exhaust every alternative possibility and go to ludicrous lengths to avoid surgery unless it was medically absolutely essential. But obviously it's a totally personal matter. Bear in mind that doctors don't get to see much of the kind of women who take this approach so they're not very aware of alternative forms of mangement and how successful they can be. They also tend to have a lot of fear and engender it in other people, however well-intentioned thay may be. Good luck. Judith xx

Devi

May 9, 2010 - 3:34pm

I appreciate the feedback and altho there may not be many women who have had a hysterectomy on Whole Women site this process paves the way for us all to create a healthy body and share our observations. I notice that when I sit or lie down or shower my prolapse disappears. I am also grateful to observe that when I go into the ocean which is currently 81 degrees and flat and clear, and use a noodle, I can exercise easily and the prolapse appears to vanish. I am willing to change my lifestyle and experiment with how to exercise and tone my body without surgery.

Devi

May 9, 2010 - 10:21pm

I appreciate your answer and I will accept this challenge to make extreme efforts not to have surgery. I have seen a urogynocology and reconstructive pelvic surgeon from the Cleveland clinic and another urogynocologist and a gyn and all have been disheartening in their surgical or live this way no other options. They are not informed as to other possibilities and so I will continue the investigation. I wear the fembrace and it allows me to walk around. Next I will try the V2 supporter once I find where the best place to get it and figure out sizing. I tried two of the febraces until I figured out the right sizing. And yes it's worth the time and effort.

Judith

May 10, 2010 - 9:33am

Hi Devi, I got mine from the UK, where I live, but I believe that Amazon.Com sells them. It's worth googling the different online shops that sell them because some give better advice than others about sizing. You should be able to do accurately by measuring your hips. Judith xx

Christine

May 10, 2010 - 4:09pm

Alemama and Devi...I just don't know yet whether this will be beneficial or otherwise. Some post-hyst women have reported to me that it feels destabilizing. The problem is, while each woman's pelvic anatomy is very similar, each post-hysterectomy woman's anatomy is different. Doctors do these surgeries in different ways, creating an endless variety of adhesions here and there. Therefore, it is impossible to know.

It can be generally theorized, though, that the important factor is to carry the entire intestinal and pelvic contents toward the front and away from the pelvic opening at the back.

:) Christine

Devi

May 11, 2010 - 6:35pm

I have been returning to read the comments on this site and am grateful to the kind consideration of the responders. My hysterectomy was due to a large tumor that appeared malignant and an 8 hour surgery in Santa Fe. In retrospect.....but there is no way to change the past except in the present moment. I will continue to work with Christine's exercises and the insights from other readers. Thank you.

Cecilly

December 10, 2011 - 5:05pm

I'm sorry, I realize the original post here is over a year old, but I was looking for a thread that relates to something I've discovered recently (and with the new format, I'm unable to start new threads for some reason). Anyway, I've doing the WW DVD now for about 3 3 weeks and the other day discovered something that concerned me regarding the firebreathing...

Several times a day, I will engage in the FB as recommended on the DVD. However, yesterday, after placing a tampon in me to nudge things back up (my prolapse was being difficult all day and not remaining stable), I decided to go into FB pose and do several breaths with the tampon (and applicator) sitting inside my vagina before pulling it out. Well, what happened was that with each full breath, the tampon was pushed out little by little until it was nearly half-way out. I grabbed hold of the applicator and kept my hand on it to "feel" what happened with each breath, and there was noticable pressure coming from inside pushing downward on the tampon with each breath.

The other thing I noticed, was after pushing the tampon back in and still holding onto the applicator, I did several deep Kegal contractions...the tampon felt like it was being pulled up higher.

I don't know what's really going on, but could it be that for post-hysterectomy prolapses, the firebreathing might have the opposite effect as intended?

Christine

December 10, 2011 - 8:26pm

Hi Cecilly,

We are working to get the bugs out of the new system, which will take a few more days.

I have always been very cautious regarding firebreathing and post-hysterectomy women. It is critical to understand that hysterectomy truly does remove the muscular hub of the wheel, which separates the pelvic cavity from the abdominal cavity. The uterus is pulled forward with every breath we take and in pulling forward, repositions the rest of the pelvic interior. Without the uterus, we really don't know what to expect from firebreathing.

Therefore, the best we can do at this point is to exercise caution with the post-hysterectomy woman. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

Thanks so much, and please keep us posted regarding other exercises that feel stabilizing/destabilizing to you.

Christine

Grandma Joy

December 12, 2011 - 7:50pm

I have NOT had a hysterectomy but I have felt the same sensations Cecilly has referring to the breathing sequence of firebreathing. I thought it was strange, too that on the outbreath, it seemed as though the bladder was being forced downward. I have worked with this frequently and still have the same sensations. Doesn't matter whether I'm standing or on all fours.

Grandma Joy

bonolla

December 22, 2011 - 5:10pm

I had an total hysterectomy with removal of ovaries and tubes in 1979 at 35 yrs. Very active physically. Heavy lifting and gardening along with a hard fall has resulted in a prolapsed bladder and uretha. Love this site and all messages of encouragement from members and Christine. Have an appointment with a urogyn next month for evaluation...would love to avoid another surgery. Is there hope with this method? Planning on buying the book and dvd.

Angela Adams

December 22, 2011 - 9:53pm

Christine - are you really saying that a woman with prolapse the size of a softball can go through life without surgery??? Most doctors would wiz her in for a total hysto or pull up some ligaments or something that I know little about.

FunnyFootGirl5

December 23, 2011 - 10:58pm

I'm new to wholewoman.com and am very thankful to have found this site. I feel so alone and have only told my mom and best friend that I'm now dealing with this on top of my other physical challenges. They are supportive which helps. Like so many here, I am determined to avoid surgery to repair my bladder prolapse. I can feel my bladder descending within an hour of getting up in the morning. It's SO frustrating! I bought Christine's book, "Saving the Whole Woman" and got it in the mail today. I'm looking forward to continuing to educate myself on prolapse and what I can do to make this more livable. I bought the fembrace and have found it to be very helpful in giving me some confidence that I can walk around for as long as I'm able without feeling like I'm going to have my bladder fall out of me.

I'm looking forward to learning the exercises that may help to improve this condition. Have you found that doing these exercises faithfully can help someone who has a prolapse as bad as having a small bulge coming out? There's so much to learn.

cleo

December 23, 2011 - 11:50pm

Hi Christine,You are right about a prolapse.It is a nuisance but i have lived like that for eight years and it doesn't get any worse.Some days are good and another day is bad but i try and stay in a good posture.I will not have an operation unless it gets so bad i cannot put up with it.Devi should try and stay away from surgery but see her doctor if she feels bad like i do.Of course i don't say too much to the doctor as i won't be operated on.There are too many risks with surgery.

Cecilly

December 24, 2011 - 10:46am

Grandma joy, I no longer do any firebreathing for the reasons I mentioned in my original post. However, I will do the nauli exercises (as best as I can as they're quite challenging). I don't notice any downward pressure doing these.

Christine

December 24, 2011 - 12:06pm

Dear Whole Women,

(Even I can't begin a new topic...hopefully we will have these issues resolved soon!)

I wish for each of you a warm and sweet Holiday season and shining New Year. Thank you so very much for believing in the Whole Woman work and supporting each other in this endless process of staying whole, active, healthy and happy.

May we build a truly brave new world of whole women everywhere!

Love and Hope and Peace,

Christine

Christine

December 24, 2011 - 12:07pm

Thank you, Cleo, for the lovely Christmas card! I wish for you a beautiful day and splendid New Year! :)

cleo

December 25, 2011 - 1:50am

Hi Christine,I am pleased you received my card and hope you have a great Christmas.I still have my uterus so i am thinking seriously about applying for the teacher training course as i would like to see other ladies not have to remain uninformed and frightened about any prolapse they may have.I will write again soon.