An anatomical question

Hmmmm that sounds weird as My Cystocele is at front of body (front of introitis) and I see/feel no hole - The only hole I have ever been aware of was in the uterine prolapse.

Hmmmm Christine will tell us I am sure :)

Sue

i see my urethra (pee hole) (urethrocele) and the bulge is the bladder part which is at the introitus.

mine is just like mommi2three

I think Marie means that her bulge is just in back of the front of the introitus, which I interpret as the front vaginal wall. The urethral orifice is just BELOW (in the standing position it would be ABOVE, as the "floor" becomes a "wall") the clitoris, directly behind the pubic bone.

In some women with pelvic floor descent, the orifice moves back from the pubic bone, a symptom of prolapse that doctors can easily spot while the woman is in the lithotomy position. This is why some women see an opening very near or on their bulge.

The posture better positions the urethra, but your urethra was probably always where it was supposed to be.

I am having a good laugh here ;-), at the thought of all of us, all over the world checking out our urethras, vaginas, labia, perinea etc, all at the same time, like some progamme on the Discovery Channel. What a hoot, all these women bent over in synchronised examinations... then telling each other what we have found! Oh, that our mothers would have dared do the same. Go for ladies!

What would aliens be thinking?

Cheers

Louise

Well after having a good giggle as usual at Louise's comment I will contribute further to this...............Can you have a cystocele without a bulge into the front vaginal wall? I do not have a bulge, the front wall is quite flat. This has confused me all along so I asked my PT. She said that what I thought was a small cushion of fat visible over the front of my pelvic bone well below the urethra "is your bladder" and is the cystocele. This "cushion" is visible when I sit up and lie down and is possibly 1/2 cm in size. It doesn't seem to move at all whatever position I am in. I do not have a "bulge" as other people describe. Christine and anyone, are cystoceles so very different with everyone?
Thank you.

I think there should be more medical photographs available for women so they know what is what! We have so much on video and exposure on the birth of a baby. What happens afterwards seems to remain hush hush. Even gyns don't tell you what you are looking at. We need to know! How about some on-line encyclopedia of various prolapses and its stages in real life photos. We see all the plastic surgery gore on t.v. Someone write to Berman and Berman to do a segment on prolapse please! :)

My own anatomy has a pad of fat just inside the introitus on the front wall. My anatomy books show this too, although it’s not labeled anywhere. The gynecology literature says the urethra is very “well protected”, so I’m assuming this fat pad is what they mean.

There must be a picture somewhere on the net that tells us what this pad of fat looks like normally and what it looks like after prolapse??

As I said I can feel this pad of fat to the front whether standing sitting or lying down (In fact as we are all laughing here - i got my partner to HOLD it while i stood up to check it is exactly what i feel to the front - not easy but he does as he is told - lolololol)

I wonder what a woman without a prolapse looks like (Is it just a hole going up into the body or is that pad of fat always there in every woman?)

I have no idea - I never really checked till i felt weird last August - It is not the kinda thing you chat about over tea/coffee
lol

Sue

Perhaps what we really need here are descriptions of the anatomical changes which can occur after a woman has been pregnant and especially after she has a vaginal birth. I suspect the reason why so many ob/gyn's are unimpressed by what they consider to be "small" cystoceles, rectoceles etc in the multiparous woman is because they see these so very frequently. I know I have read somewhere on this forum someone comparing their "new" anatomy to wrinkles and stretch marks and this seems to be a healthy way to view what are for most probably fairly usual changes after having children. I am not trying to suggest that these changes happen to all women but if we could actually see the anatomy of women I am sure we would all feel better and stop worrying quite so much about what has occured in our own bodies. (Well little obsessive me anyway!)

Just to continue this whole topic.......................I spoke to my PT again yesterday about how things are "supposed" to look down there. She said that many women have a small area of "bladder" showing at the introitus and that its not so much what is there at rest, more what is there when one bears down. Prolapse is indicated by what happens when a woman bears down. If any of the vaginal walls are squeezed out this is indicative of various types of prolapse even if there are not any really apparent "bulges" at rest in mild prolapse situations. So, that all makes more sense to me now. Anyway, just interesting learning about all this stuff!

So if you had a bladder prolapse etc - what would you 'see' when bearing down?

I really wish we could see pictures - maybe not a film lol - But it would help to visualise what's going on down below.

I don't think women in the street would like it if i demanded they all bear down and et me check em out - lmaoooooo

Sue

Ok, what's the introitus? I assume it's the vaginal opening?

I wonder how many women have mild prolapse and don't even know it because they don't do the "bearing down" test. I bet all mothers do. Even after my 1st delivery the ob didn't have my "bear down" like the uro gyno did. Even when I did bear down, he told me to do it more, like I was pushing a baby out, with all my might. It makes me wonder if "of course there's prolapse under those conditions"...

Oh I am so not going to that uro gyno again.

Yup it is the Vaginal Opening (I tell my mum 'The Hole' lololol

I suppose everyone knows more anatomical names now the big P has raised its ugly head

Sue

Hi all

You know, the stupid thing is that we do not know all this stuff terribly well!!

I have been operating this body of mine for 53 years now, and only now, after the indignities of infertility treatment, one miscarriage, one highly-managed vaginal birth with forceps and episiotomy (plus another two good vaginal births, three lovely babies), and now cystocele and rectocele, am I comfortable with my own anatomy. I still get stuck with some of the proper names for my bits down there, but we are all learning. Show and tell was frowned upon severely when I was a little inquisitive girl with equally inquisitive friends. How else are you supposed to figure out what is down there out of sight? ... Braille?

Now if we were talking parts of the face, we would be kidding to think that we could reach the age of 53, and not know what they all look like, or what they are all called! We even paint different bits of our faces with coloured sticks, and put stuff on our faces that we probably shouldn't. But does anybody stop us? Of course they don't. We use mirrors for looking at our own faces. We can use mirrors for looking at any other part of our body to familiarise ourselves with what is there and what is not.

Of course we have a right to know, and a responsibility to know about *all* the parts of our bodies, and what is normal and what is not! How else can we keep them healthy, and enjoy them :-) if we don't know what's there?

Keep exploring, keep searching, and keep asking those gyno's difficult questons. I have a feeling some of them know less about our bodies than we do. I am led to this conclusion by some of the conflicting information that I have read from Members about gyno's on this Forum. No two answers to the same question seem to be the same!

We each have primary responsibility for our own body and its health. If a doctor tells us something about our body, we need to do a lot of reading to understand their abbreviated answers and be convinced by our own research that they are on the right track. We cannot afford to hand over that primary responsibility to them. This Forum is such a wonderful opportunity for us all to learn from each other. Thankyou everyone.

Cheers

Louise

Dear Louise,

I know we are all kindred spirits here, but you seem an especially brave soul with a gift for seeing the necessity of bringing up deeper matters. I so thank you for it. Wholewoman has only begun to bring to light the more hidden issues of our day (and our mother’s day!) Literally, I’ve spent the day writing a long response to you, but ended up deleting it. Although there is great urgency to speak truths our mothers never would’ve spoken, there is also a precept the Buddhists refer to as “right speech” that calls for enlightenment without injury. I’ve spent years trying to navigate my way along that path, sometimes more successfully than others.

What I tried to express today needs to be a book and not one I have time to write at present! However, like everything else, its time will come and then we will have lots more to share.

Heartfully,

Christine