Specialist visit ...

Welcome to Whole Woman, Takecare,

My teachers-in-training and I just completed our course on pregnancy and postpartum yesterday in which I included case studies of intrapartum complete prolapse. This does happen occasionally and by all means can be manually reduced without further incident. I am assuming you did not have a hysterectomy. Hysterectomy at birth for this condition has been common practice in the States for a long time.

Coccydynia, or tail bone pain, is most often associated with the musculature around the tailbone, which is rich with nerve endings, rather than with the tailbone itself. All our present system of women's health has to offer such conditions are surgery, pessary, supplemental estrogen, and kegel exercises, none of which address the problem.

Did you catch Alemama's post about her six month old baby sitting all the time in perfect WW posture? This is so deeply ingrained into our DNA and losing our natural structure over time has widespread manifestations, which your rectocele, tailbone pain, and back pain all reflect. The lumbar discs are supported by natural spinal curvature.

So much about diet is now common knowledge in our culture, but few understand how health-promoting natural posture is. I would be a crippled old lady at this point if I didn't have this work. So, I suggest you learn about it too! We are so used to going to practitioners to fix our health problems when the overarching majority of them can only be resolved through our own knowledge and efforts.

Yes, you have some issues...but to me they sound like postural issues that have gone on for too long.

Wishing you well,

Christine

this is what I think I suffer from as well, but it has improved since i stopped straining and try my best to stay in a posture, also doing exercices every day...i used to be in pain ever day, all day long...i was coming back from work completelly exhausted, going to sleep around 8pm and next day i had the same pain...that time i did not know what was this about...i was going to specialists, had no answers...
i have another visit in two weeks time, it may be a waste of time again...

there is so much to learn! i also need to learn that i cannot speed this process up...
ivonush

HI Takecare

It sounds to me like your specialists are doing a lot of talking and not very much listening, then trying to apply their standard fixes to a problem they do not understand. Thank goodness they are not mechanics working on your car!!!! (that was a joke)

A colorectal surgeon who pushes pills and talks about a 'pelvic nozzle' is not communicating with you in a way that enlightens you. I wonder what he was talking about? Ask him, if you go and see him again. It sounds like he is telling you that you are having trouble with bowel function. Hmmm, wasn't that what you just told him a few minutes prior? Mmmm ...

How exactly has the Vagifem worked its magic? Can I assume you are perimenopausal?

How was the complete uterine inversion repaired? Do you mean that the whole uterus came out with the baby, or do you mean that it turned completely inside out as well? What did they do about it at the time?

Is the neurosurgeon going to find out any more before he proposes to do this spinal fusion, for the nerve damage that he is not sure is the cause of your pain (or bowel difficulties?)? How does he know about the severe disc degeneration?

Takecare, I would suggest that you give Wholewoman techniques a very thorough workout before you go anywhere near any of these specialists again. It sounds to me like you have pretty straightforward pelvic organ prolapse which is causing your pain, and which will respond in time to these techniques and leave you with the body you were born with, still able to adjust it in any way you need to, into old age.

Do you have the book, Saving the Whole Woman, or the DVD's. You can see exerpts on YouTube (wholewomaninc channel). Use the Search box to search these Forums for keywords you are interested in.

Louise

ps, I just went looking for some brochures (which are in the Whole Woman Center) and I discovered a heap of videos in different places in the Village, that I had forgotten about. Check these out too.

Hi takecare,
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm so pleased you got in touch prior to further currently commonplace medical adivce and intervention. I really hope you try the WW approach. It is slow, safe and self healing. If you opt for surgery or other intrusive interventions at this stage there is no turning back.
I also expereinced pain alongside my uterine prolapse However 1 year down the line this is a rare occurence for me. Along the way there were times when I got demoralised and depressed about my slow progress. However I now feel happier and healthier than I have for years. (I also made some life-style changes which made a big difference). I think it is possible I may have to be careful about my posture and managing my vulnerability for prolapse forever more. However that feels perfectly doable and it does ensure that I look after myself. As this is new territory it is also possible that I will continue to make positive progress.
I do hope you give WW a try.
Take good care,
wholewomanuk

Takecare, sitting posture is pretty much the same. Keep belly relaxed, chest pulled up. Important to sit up straight and support yourself...keep the lumbar curve in place. Try not to sit an at obtuse angle....maintain a right angle (or acute angle) with your body when sitting. When possible, cross-legged in WW posture is excellent, or with legs straight out in front.

In WWY1 (the first wheel) I explain the profound connections between lumbar curvature and hips, knees and feet. That is also the dvd I would recommend to someone in your position - although it would have to be worked at extremely slowly and carefully, as the program becomes fairly rigorous. It is true that the posture is primary, but often times is not enough to make a sizable difference. The organs have fallen into the vaginal canal, stretching fascia and mal-aligning the musculoskeletal system. It is usually necessary to make greater efforts to move things toward their normal positions. One of the best ways to do this is with a walking program - staying in WW posture and taking long strides. :)

...and of course, the ever present warning to please check with your medical doctor before embarking on this or any other exercise program. Thank you.

just a moment here but I wanted to remind myself to respond to you further. I am 32 and I have also been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease. I have all the images from the MRI and it's very clear that 3 of my discs are in very poor shape.
I've had good luck decreasing pain by increasing the strength of my whole body-but especially my back, glutes, shoulders and abs and by icing in the ice pool at the gym.

The one thing that tweaked my brain was the bowel stuff. The doc I saw asked me very specific questions regarding this as it is extremely common to experience big problems with your bowel when there is disc degeneration (blocking nerve signals- almost like paralysis).

Take it easy and rest well!

You have been through a lot, Takecare. What a strong woman you are. I am sure that you will see improvement using the techniques we use.

Walk tall, Queen Takecare! Raise your breasts, relax your belly, ensure that your royal gowns or your skirts and trousers don't compress your belly at all. Keep your neck tall and keep your chin in, so your beautiful crown doesn't fall off the back of your head. Maintaining you lumbar curve this way during everyday movements ensures that your organs can move forward and rest on your pubic bones and your lower belly.Take care that your diet has plenty of fruits and vegetables, unprocessed grains, and protein.

You may get some initial improvement quite quickly but the real improvement will happen over the ensuing months and years. You may have some temporary setbacks on the way, but these do resolve. Your uterus will be getting smaller as you head for menopause, or are you there already?

When the perineum drops it can pull the pudendal nerve which comes out of your sacrum, and it rubs on the ligaments and muscles it has to pass through to get to the organs it supplies. Wholewoman posture will eventually raise your perineum again, because your pelvic floor will be stretched tauter, both sideways and lengthways, and your intestines that are probably pushing down on your rectum will topple out of that space and fall forwards, as well as your uterus and bladder. This means that there will be less organs squashed into your pelvic cavity. Hopefully this discomfort will then ease. The female body is just amazing!

I also have some degenerated lumbar discs but they hardly give me any trouble since I have been using Wholewoman techniques. I am 58 and had menopause about three years ago.

Louise

I am a bit lost in terms of seeing specialists. As I already said I treated them as "gods" before...Only recently, when going from doctor to doctor over last year I discovered that they have some "ready answers", followed by treatments...and that I may get different answers and different treatments from differnent doctors...

I have two appointments scheduled in the near future, one with the gyno and one with the phisiotherapist...Previously, I would be quite pleased, as I would get diagnosis followeed by treatment...
I am unsure now...
I will prepare my list of questions and expectations...Will they listen? They don't really like when the patient has their own view...But I cannot just take the treatment...

Recently, it was my naturopath who helped me with a digestive track problems and now I am receiving lots of help here, and I learn how to help myself...
So what is the purpose in seeing so called specialists???
Ivonush

Your last question is very pertinent, Ivonush.

TakeCare,
I agree with you that it is important to to see the specialists - to negate any really serious conditions...
Same as you, I have been going to see doctors, doing some MRI scans, other assessments...
I am only so confused when I get different views about the same matter...

Recently, I have had lots of problems with my digestive track, I was told that I had pancreatic insuficiency, so I took the medication for few months to discover later that I have IBS!
Some time ago I was treated for hypertension to discover that it was a side-effect of another drug!
I usually find answers on internet, but then doctors don't want to hear them...as they are Doctors!

I met only one doctor in my life who admitted "I don't know. We doctors are good with major matters, such as broken bones, but we cannot answer all questions. The human body is a mistery..."...I will always remember this answer...

Since my prolapse problems I have been going to many, many doctors...it started from a diagnosis of a second stage hemorhoids, then proctalgia, then I had MRI scan (nothing there!), then two gyno's (one said I had a small recocele, second suggested to stop paying attention to it, and said I had endometriosis, and prescribed estriol...)...it was suggested to me to do Kegels and they only made things worse...I was in such pain!

But, yes, we do need to see specialists...but who is "a real specialist?"...
When I was chosing my therapist I spent a lot of time researching, asking people and then I found one (he is great!)...

Sorry, I have problems with putting it right in my head (and in English!), so I am possibly a bit chaotic...as I said many times, I thought doctors were gods and for me it is a real challenge to change my beliefs...I don't know if I can trust them anymore...but I still know I have to trust them...but I also need to learn that my body does not belong to them (ouch, this hurst, as my body simbolically "belonged" to my father/doctor)...
So it is my personal journey...seems that having POP is a challenge of my life...
Ivonush

I feel a bit lost Lousie...
I used to trust doctors completely, took all medication prescribed, etc...

If I cannot go to the Doctor with my pain, where do I go?
It is an internal journey through the land I have never been to...I am looking for directions, I have found them here, but still I can only BELIEVE that people who did the journey before me talk from a persepctive of a positive experience...

As I am still in pain, it is so easy to lose the track...that is why I come here often, I read previous posts, I always see the answer: Body Posture, so I follow...and I have some better times, but still disbelief: is it possible? Is it sustainable? Will it really get better?

Sorry, if I ask too many questions. I hope I will find answers soon...
Ivonush

Ivonush, I cannot give you an answer to that question. All I can say is that in general doctors don't have much to offer the woman with pelvic organ prolapse. They can give you a lot of diagnoses, (some of which will be just describing your symptoms in medical languge), they can run a lot of tests (will will generate lots of information, some of which may be relevant and some irrelevant), they can do lots of scans (which will hopefully eliminate sinister causes of your pain), they can prescribe lots of drugs (that might help an aspect of your health, but might aggravate another aspect of your health).

After that it is up to you to decide who to listen to, and what is the next step for you to take with 'your' body.

You need to seek to understand what your body needs to do, and help it to do it. 99% of what you have to do it nothing to do with doctors. It is to do with actions you can take, yourself. Trust yourself to decide what to do. Yourself is the only person you can really rely on because you know the whole story.

Louise, I know you cannot give me answers, but I apprecaite a lot when you share your thoughts and experience...
It is my journey, and as you said I need to make choices who I am going to listen to...
I am beginning to see that doctors are not gods...I will be more mindful now when listening to their suggestions, I will ask more questions...
Yes, this is my body, which I left before "to doctors", now I need to read the story of my body myself...it is not easy, but I read all the posts here, think a lot...talk to my therapist (he is impressed with the approach here- he is a body psychotherapist)...
I listen to my female identity, which was hidden for many, many years...
I am trying to redefine myself (positive disintegration?)...
All this is quite new for me...sometimes I feel a bit "blind", then I ask questions...I get answers like yours, and then I think...and so on, so on...
The journey has started...and it will be never-ending, as the process of personal growth never ends...
Ivonush

I just found it on Mayo Clinic web-page, may be useful fpor others:
Preparing for your appointment
By Mayo Clinic staff

Here's some information to help you prepare for your appointment and what to expect from your doctor.

What you can do

Write down any symptoms you've had, and for how long.Make a list of your key medical information, including any other conditions for which you're being treated and the names of any medications, vitamins or supplements you're taking.Take a family member or friend along, if possible. Sometimes it can be difficult to soak up all the information provided to you during an appointment. Someone who accompanies you may remember something that you missed or forgot.Write down questions to ask your doctor. Creating your list of questions in advance can help you make the most of your time with your doctor.For rectocele, some basic questions to ask your doctor include:

What is the most likely cause of my symptoms?
Are there any other possible causes?
Do I need any tests to confirm the diagnosis?
What are the goals of treatment in my case?
What treatment approach do you recommend?
Am I at risk of complications from this condition?
What is the risk that this problem will recur in the future?
Do I need to follow any restrictions?
Are there any self-care steps I can take?
Should I see a specialist?
In addition to the questions that you've prepared to ask your doctor, don't hesitate to ask questions during your appointment if you don't understand something.

What to expect from your doctor
Your doctor is likely to ask you a number of questions, such as:

What symptoms are you experiencing?
When did you first notice these symptoms?
Have your symptoms gotten worse over time?
Do your symptoms include pain? If yes, how severe is the pain?
Does anything in particular trigger your symptoms, such as coughing or heavy lifting?
Do your signs and symptoms include urine leakage (urinary incontinence)?
Have you had a chronic or severe cough?
Does your work or daily activities involve heavy lifting?
Do you strain during bowel movements?
Are you currently being treated or have you recently been treated for any other medical conditions?
What medications are you taking, including over-the-counter and prescription drugs as well as vitamins and supplements?
Do any of your first-degree relatives — such as a parent or sibling — have a history of rectocele or any other pelvic problems?
How many children have you delivered? Were your deliveries vaginal or cesarean?
Do you plan to have children in the future?
Do you have any other concerns?

Thanks Ivonush for this comprehensive list.

Hi again- I'm in to my 3rd week with WW, & just today was diagnosed with rectocele. My family dr. was very attentive, & when I mentioned the firebreathing exercise I have started with WW, he was very interested. Even took down the website, & asked how the firebreathing exercise was done. He is a very caring doctor, maybe we can get more of our doctors to take notice of these techniques. Just had to share__

Hi mlou, thanks so much for sharing. That would be nice if we could get other Dr's to take notice. My Gynocologist seemed interested also and I wrote down the web-site for her and left it in her office. Maybe she looked it up, just maybe. Keep up the W.W. Work you will see improvement over time.

Hugs, Jaylove

What suggestions can I get for products to help with burning, was just diagnosed with rectecele, & put on vagifems, will this help with the burning? Would appreciate any help from others who have this problem. Where can I find raw honey, maybe a health store??

I cannot help you with other products or with vagifems. I have never taken those products. But yes you can find raw honey in a health food store. If possible go for the raw and local honey. But I think as long as it is raw and organic you will be fine even if you can't get the local. Best wishes to you!

Thanks so much MSNightingale-I'm wondering about the Red Clover salve also, have you tried this??

Hi Mlou

Red clover salve works by occupying the beta oestrogen receptors in your body, preventing the inflammatory oestrogen metabolites in your body from parking themselves and causing local inflammation. Instead the metabolites stay in the blood stream, and eventually are filtered out by the kidneys and excreted. So, technically red clover salve has to be applied where there are beta receptors. There are beta receptors in the vulva, but Christine tells us that there are none in the vagina, which is a different type of tissue. So if it doesn't work, this may be why... but your vulva will feel great from the overflow!

Louise

Can you tell me where to look for the red clover salve, or a recipe for it?? Thanks so much.

There is a video of Christine making a batch, if you go to Resources and then to Christine’s Living Arts. Also throughout the forum there are some other descriptions of how some of us have made it with slight variations. You can search for those, which might not be an easy task. - Surviving