Prolapse

Dear Mika I'm afraid that it is normal if you have severe uterine prolapse to have to push it in to urinate. You will find doing that places less pressure on you prolapses. I would also suggest that when urinating that you do not sit on the toilet seat as I find this relaxes too much the pelvic muscles. Rather, back towards the toilet as normal, but remain standing, bend at the knees so that you hover over the toilet with your weight still on your feet. To all intents and purposes you are standing. Alternatively you can approach the toilet face on and feet either side of the bowl and urinate at full stand. You will find that the pelvic muscles do not relax as much as when seated to urinate, you can retain control of them better and that urination in this way does not allow the uterus to descend so far. It really does improve things. There are other things you can do which we can talk about, but I also wonder whether at this rather despairing stage that you apply for a consultation with Christine or one of her teachers. Best of luck. Thanks for letting us know how you have progressed.

Mika, I agree with fab that it might be a good time to see a practitioner if you can. A year is not a long time to be doing this work. It would be rather impossible to say whether or not you have been doing everything that you could....few of us can or do. At the very least, a consultation to check your posture and perhaps your firebreathing technique would help, and it might give you the added boost to keep going on this journey. The work doesn't ever end. - Surviving

I am brand new to all of this, have ordered Christine's books, they will arrive in a few days, and also get fitted for a pessary next week. I am interested in what Surviving60 and fab have to say as I have a prolapsed bladder and uterus. I, too, will try that way to urinate. What are the first questions that I should ask the doctor when going to get...do you call it "fitted"? And what are the best things to do at the very first to make the transition to having one easier for me? I would love any advice I could get from you all.

I have not worn a pessary so cannot speak from personal experience, except to say that even keeping in a tampon is impossible for me. Christine talks about pessaries in her book "Saving the whole woman" and in that she mentions that a more vertically lying pessary will lift the bladder slightly and improve comfort considerably. I'm pretty sure she suggests the thin pessary such as the ring-with-support is possibly the better choice. But this is something you will have to experiment a little with. It's better to get one that you can insert and remove yourself rather than one the doctor needs to do for you on a three monthly basis or whatever, but this too is a matter of personal choice. And you would have to have a doctor willing to take the time to demonstrate and get you to try. Most of us here opt not to wear pessaries, but it will depend a lot on your age and condition and family situation which is the best choice to make. You will also need to discuss what lubricants would be best to use as to their effectiveness and safety. Maybe, you could do a bit of a google search on these things. Also the search box at the top of the page would lead you to previous discussions on pessaries. Good luck.

I don't wear a pessary either, and those of us who do will typically only use it at times when they need some extra support. Not everyone will get symptom relief from them, and they can be very tricky to fit. Some members here have reported worsening of symptoms from their use. Follow fab's suggestions if you want to try going this route. When you receive your book you will realize that the real work of prolapse management is postural - restoring natural lower lumbar curvature so that the organs can be pulled forward into the lower belly and away from the vaginal space. This will be your focus from now on. Do check around the site for more info while waiting for your book. Learn some more before you go for your fitting; in general, the medical profession does not serve women well in this particular area. We have to help ourselves. Good luck - Surviving

I use a donut pessary - recommended over a ring pessary as it was a better weight bearer than the ring, It took a 2nd size to get one I can take out as I wish... it seems to simply keep my large bladder from the gravitational pull that makes my bladder push my vagina out the birthing tunnel. I use nothing with it but .5 grams premarin 1x a week. I find implementing a change of the position of my organs thru habitually changing what I've always done tobe quite difficult but thoroughly agree to its benefits and still hope to get there but rite now w/o pessary I hurt from friction and pressure of bladder being pulled down by gravity... do not want nor trust additional surgical efforts

Please be aware that the hormone cream Premarin is absorbed into the system. Anyone remember Louise's posts about how it gave her hot flashes just from a few days of use? - Surviving

Dear fab,
Thank you for your reply, you bring up good things for me to research. I've been reading everything on the computer, but some of the ideas are not good...so finding Christine and all of you, is a wonderful support
for me. I like your ideas, and will ask the doctor when he sees me next week. Christine's book will be here in just enough time for me to get it read before I see the doctor. I am thinking that this doctor will be the type to really help, but thank you for the ideas for questions that I will be SURE to have him answer. The new way to stand is also what I need to learn. I can understand this will be a true help when I learn how to do it. The little that I have tried to figure out, tells me that my body may feel more rested when I stand properly...I hope that is true.
Thank you for your ideas!

Thank you, Surviving 60...it is good for me to have a plan forming. YES, I will do my best about this new posture, and after I read the book, will probably have questions for you. It is wonderful to know you all are available to us "new ones." That brightens my day, which has been a hard one.
Thank you for your support!

Dear Sammy,
Thank you for your reply...I can see that I will have to have really good verbal exchanges with my doctor, and perhaps make him do more than he is used to doing...letting me try the pessary myself, for example.
This appears to be a process of quite a few months before you get the right fit and "settle in" with the wearing of the pessary....Thank you for your information, it helps me.

Thank you all for your concern. I should say that I do have all my organs. Being new I will tell you that I am 2 months from 70, and have had Idiopathic Congestive Heart Failure for 15 years. I got it from a virus and the doctors thought I had a 4 year survival rate. I read and studied everything I could get my hands on and I am still going strong. I have about 6 other chronic diagnosis, but was handling everything well, until suddenly this prolapse of my uterus and bladder the week before Christmas, So, you see, I will be a diligent student, and will try to learn well from all of you...there is no way I can have any surgery...so I am so happy that I have all these things in front of me to use and learn.
Thank you all.

We are so glad you found WW. You will be well armed with information at your next doctor visit. Given your heart condition, I would hope that no doctor would be pushing you towards surgery of any kind, but you never know. You have been taking great care of yourself up to now, and prolapse management is really best left in our own capable hands. Docs are great for many things......this isn't one of them. The doc CAN help you if you want to try a pessary, and if you do so with success, promise us that you will also learn and practice WW posture. Its benefits go far beyond prolapse management. Good luck, keep us posted. - Surviving

Thank you, Surviving60, for your answer. The appointment with my doctor, with all that I have read and all that you have told me, is going to be interesting, to say the least! I can hardly wait for the books...and no mail on Monday! I had spine surgery 5 years ago and have titanium rods and screws in my lower back. As I listen to you all, I believe I am doing, already, some of the WW way of walking. I'll tell you how I have been walking and sitting in the last 5 years, and please tell me what to change. I now sit and stand very straight, if on a chair, my back doesn't often touch the back. I take an 18x18 in. needlepoint pillow, a tight and hard type of pillow, with me to a lot of places, and put it behind me to keep my back straight. The curve in most chairs cause me great pain if I am in them for more than 10 minutes. When standing, my shoulders are back and down and bosom is up. I've been really thinking about this...and I can feel the muscles in my stomach pulling up as I pull my chest up. Is this the beginning of the WW posture? What happens with your neck and chin? Do you hold your stomach in as well as you can, and really work those stomach muscles? Does your bottom then become more tucked under? What else happens?
OH...wishing I had the books already!!!!!
Thanks, Surviving60
PS The spine surgery was bad enough and I will only have surgery if something is a life and death issue.

I have just realized that I have a prolapsed (probably) bladder. It is non symptomatic at this point, however I can see it in the vaginal canal. One of my favorite excercizes is on a rebounder. Can I still do this now I know about my condition??? I am currently a bit in shock and have ordered the book.

Jeansalley, holding your stomach in and tucking your butt under is precisely what you DON'T want to do. It is this flattening of the lower lumbar curvature that contributes to the pelvic organs falling back and down into the vaginal space. The goal instead is to keep the organs forward in the lower belly, which must stay relaxed. Belly must stay relaxed! That is so hard for some of us to learn (or should I say re-learn, as this is how we used to stand before it was trained out of us). So, relax the belly, pull the chest up, shoulders should be down but not thrown back.....keep upper back flat and broad.

We are trying to restore lower lumbar curvature and I cannot say how all this will work with the metal rods and screws in your back. I want you to understand this posture and then try it out and see how it feels. Most of us felt strange at first and even felt some mild discomfort such as one would feel any time under-used muscles were suddenly put into action. Take it slow and see what you think. Does it sound like something you can do, or has your surgery left you with a limited range of motion? - Surviving

If I were you I would hold off on the high-impact stuff until you have understood and mastered Whole Woman posture. This doesn't happen overnight and I guarantee it will keep you occupied for awhile! Christine has plenty of great exercises you can do in the meantime to stay fit while you strengthen your body for the posture work. Once you understand the principles of pelvic organ support, then you can pretty much do whatever you want because you will have learned what's good and what's bad - Surviving

Dear Surviving60,
I believe that I have enough range of motion left in my spine that I can do this posture. We have been brought up to suck in our stomach. And the pretty little curve in the belly of women is so often thought of as a sigh of being fat. I think I am beginning to understand the WW posture now.
I'll work on this...thank you, Surviving60.

Hi jeansally,
I have been reading your posts and find your determination inspiring. Please do take it slowly though, and I would love to have you keep us updated on your progress.
Loved your last post calling the curve and belly pretty. It is such a shame that we as woman have been convinced all these years that just the opposite was more attractive at the detriment of our pelvic organs! So glad we know now, and are truly appreciating our bodies instead of being ashamed.
Once I started really getting the posture, my hubby even told me I looked sexier, taller, and more natural than my previous slouchy self. There are so many rewards to doing this work.
So glad you found us and I wish you the very best!!

Thank you for the good advice, surviving60. I am looking forward to receiving my book!

Thank you, Aging Gracefully! In the midst of worry, such a lovely compliment! I saw a picture of me when I was about 6, standing on a scale, naked from the side, and I remember how sweet that little belly curve is...so this is wonderful that we are all trying to get back to that "look"!!!
Now I need a question answered by some of you, please...since my bladder and uterus prolapsed, having a bowel movement has been difficult and I worry that everything will fall out if I strain myself, so I am taking 2 jell capsules for a BM every morning. I hope, with nothing working today, even when I want to go, that by tomorrow the 2 jell stool pills will work so well, that there will be no stress and straining involved. Is this about the correct way to go about this? And will I add the jell capsules to my morning pills forever?
I go to the doctor on Wednesday to be fitted for the Pessary.....still hoping the books come tomorrow!
Yes, I'll keep you updated.

Hi there - I just wanted to interject a reminder about pessaries ..... I don't want you to be disappointed when you receive your book and realize that WW is not really a big proponent of pessary use. They can relieve symptoms for some, but also have potential to worsen prolapse. Some types will hold the vagina open even farther (our goal is to keep it a closed space as much as possible) and some have reported new rectocele which they believe might be caused by the pessary.

Some women fear the bulge and feel that they can't live with it. The Whole Woman work provides an understanding of prolapse and an action plan that removes the fear. Your symptoms are an important feedback mechanism in this process. - Surviving

I received my book,and etc. and read carefully what I thought I needed to read, before I saw the doctor yesterday. He is happy that I am not wanting surgery...the heart failure and my age...2 months from 70....make me a terrible candidate. I read the things on HERS, and am horrified that women decide for surgery so easily.
the pessary fitting was easy and I am urinating more easily and the "falling out" feeling is much better.
Thoughts about your comment, Surviving60, about some pessarys holding the vagina open further than we would wish. My doctor told me that he liked the ring with the smooth single piece of material with two holes the size of a dime and then on each side, close together, 2 smaller holes. I wonder if this "style" would help air flow and the flow of fluids and such, as well as ease in taking it out. I am to wear it for 2 weeks and then I go in and we take it out and talk. My doctor is very open to more than any other Ob-Gyn doctor I have ever had...as a pelvic/floor specialist and a bladder reconstructionist, I was amazed at how he is thinking about what is good for me and not wishing to just do surgery.
I have noticed that WW is not proponent of pessaries. I am thinking that you have already removed my fear of the bulge, and the terrible worry that came with it when I discovered my prolapse of bladder and uterus. I am very glad that you are telling me to be very careful and and to watch carefully what is happening with my vagina, etc. so that I can escape something bad happening. The doctor told me that some women don't wear a pessary all the time, or don't on a weekend, if they want to have sex, or have some other sort of schedule.....what do you think of doing that? Does it sound like it gives the vagina a rest, OR does it confuse everything and just bothers the vagina more?
IS there a way I can put the practices of the WW into use and the way of holding our bodies...which is working wonderfully and feels good, thank you all for explaining that early.......and also wear a pessary???
I still have not read every word in the book, nor watched everything...so I will know more as I continue, and have more questions.
However, I worry about your comment about prolapse worsening and need ideas about how to continue.
Jeansally

I've never used a pessary; everything I know I have learned from Christine and this site. A good happy medium would be to wear the pessary at those times that you feel you need some extra support, such as while you are still learning posture and have to be on your feet for a long time. Take it out when you can, because your main focus needs to be on understanding the principles of getting those organs to stay in a better place. If you truly understand posture, you can hold the posture even while wearing a pessary. But your symptoms (once you have lost your fear of them) are one of the ways that you can keep this whole thing in the front of your mind while learning. The organs are on the move all the time, and you kind of have to go with that flow to know what's working and what's not.

Our recommendations are to remove the pessary at night, at the very least, for cleaning and so that the tissues can breathe.

You're doing great - I'm so glad it went well yesterday. - Surviving

PS: My advice is general. You can certainly leave it in until your 2-week appointment, if those were the instructions. But you need leave there knowing how to remove and replace it yourself.

I am so grateful to find this web-site. I am new at all this. I haven't been diagnosed yet with prolapse, but I do have many of the symptoms. I just had a D&C with removing a few cysts a few weeks ago. But even before then I have been dealing with urine leaks for over 10 years and wearing panty liners. I am so tired of the pain. The doctor gave me some antibiotics but when I stop taking them the pain and burning started all over again. I am ordering the books soon. I am 63 years old, and really do need help on what to do. I have change toilet paper so many times because after urinating it burn when I wipe. Can anyone give me suggestions on what to do. My pelvic and hip area hurts so bad, I can't even sleep. I walk to lose weight, but even sitting down too long hurts, also I put a hot water bottle on my pelvic and hip area, that seems to help. Thank you all for any suggestions. I have become a number one cry babe, because of the pain. Thanks.

Welcome to the site. You don’t mention using a pain killer. When the discomfort gets at its worst I would take a paracetamol. I think they are ok especially on a short term basis and they do relieve the pain of inflammation. Also, whether the sting from the urine is in your inner or outer vagina. But that is for you to consider so that you can target directly the correct area. If you have lichen sclerosis or just that your vagina is sensitive or your urine too acidic is another thing to consider. At any rate, Christine Kent has a DVD called “Vulva Vaginal Health” in which she talks about ways of comforting your vagina and maintaining its health. Just on the stinging I would be looking at after your shower applying some soothing lubricant. Ladies here on the forum like coconut oil, but you can use what is to hand; olive oil or Vaseline. Then when the stinging reoccurs you can again apply the lubricant. In the afternoon you may like to take another shower or just wash again down there and reapply lubricant. If this does not cool things down then you can look to applying a solution of vinegar and water perhaps one part vinegar to two parts water and follow this up with a pea size amount of honey which Christine says adds good bacteria to the vagina. If you find that the actual urine itself is the culprit and is what is causing the stinging then you probably need to look to your diet. Try exchanging your liquids with still water for a bit and look to see if you are not perhaps overfeasting on acidic fruits and veg and cut them a little and include something like yoghurt (nonsweet). In other words set out to dilute your urine. As to the painful pelvis and hip then WWposture is something you need to master as soon as you can. You can read around on the site about this or have it fully explained in "Saving the Wholewoman". I mention the book because it is not something easy to master and the book gives you a good cognitive understand which should register with your gut and so make it a little easier and give you motivation. See how you go with these suggestions and get back with any questions. Good luck.

Num1crybabe, if you have a tummy upset which causes diarrhea this too can make your vagina sting, so if this were the case the quicker you can fix the tummy upset the sooner your vagina will go back to normal. And of course the lubricants etc will relieve the vagina in the meantime.

Hi jeansally,
Surviving has given you some excellent advice on pessaries. I just wanted to add that there has been much discussion on here about supportive devices including: pessaries, sea sponges, tampons, and even cotton balls. They all come with some help and some problems in the wearing and cleanliness aspects. Early on I did a lot of research on here about those options, and then decided it just wasn't worth the hassle for me, anyway. I have been using a V-2 supporter as an external support on bulgy days.Everyone has a different experience, of course.
I guess what really stuck with me is Christine's explanation that the vagina and rectum are suppose to be closed or flattened tubes, and anything that keeps them open would not be so good for the improvement of prolapse.
Just something to consider in the long run.

Dear Aging Gracefully,
Thank you for the explanation of the vagina being a closed, or flattened, tube...this does give me something to consider and also to research.
Would you, please, tell me what is a V-2 supporter and where do you find one? Will you give me more of an explanation?
I am finding that there are an enormous amount of things left in this world for me to learn!!!

Hi jeansally,
Christine explains these things so much better than I do. Her book and DVDs have given me a much better understanding into the world of prolapse than I would have ever known.
The V-2 supporter is worn like underwear, I actually wear it over my underwear. It has adjustable straps and puts just enough pressure and snugness so the bulge is supported. This isn't a replacement for whole woman posture and practices, just a little support to get through bad days.
You can google them on line. It shows them being used by pregnant women, but they are also for prolapse. I like to pull the side straps up over my hips for a little extra added snugness.
I actually found them cheaper on amazon.
Hope that is helpful in your journey.