When I first “cracked the code” on stabilizing and reversing prolapse, and wrote and published Saving the Whole Woman, I set up this forum. While I had finally gotten my own severe uterine prolapse under control with the knowledge I had gained, I didn’t actually know if I could teach other women to do for themselves what I had done for my condition.
So I just started teaching women on this forum. Within weeks, the women started writing back, “It’s working! I can feel the difference!”
From that moment on, the forum became the hub of the Whole Woman Community. Unfortunately, spammers also discovered the forum, along with the thousands of women we had been helping. The level of spamming became so intolerable and time-consuming, we regretfully took the forum down.
Technology never sleeps, however, and we have better tools today for controlling spam than we did just a few years ago. So I am very excited and pleased to bring the forum back online.
If you are already a registered user you may now log in and post. If you have lost your password, just click the request new password tab and follow the directions.
Please review and agree to the disclaimer and the forum rules. Our moderators will remove any posts that are promotional or otherwise fail to meet our guidelines and will block repeat offenders.
Remember, the forum is here for two reasons. First, to get your questions answered by other women who have knowledge and experience to share. Second, it is the place to share your results and successes. Your stories will help other women learn that Whole Woman is what they need.
Whether you’re an old friend or a new acquaintance, welcome! The Whole Woman forum is a place where you can make a difference in your own life and the lives of thousands of women around the world!
Best wishes,
Christine Kent
Founder
Whole Woman
Surviving60
February 25, 2015 - 1:05pm
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Hi Sierra – Your dilemma is
Hi Sierra – Your dilemma is one that I have thought about many times. I have an acquaintance who is a super-exercise-guru, very hard core. In her late 40’s, she lost tons of weight and went totally off the charts the other way and now does body-building competitions. When I was a couple years into the WW work, I agreed to attend a free Les Mills class she taught. I remember thinking, hey girl, do you realize that most likely some of the women in this room already have prolapse, and some of these moves are killing them? And what about you, what kind of classes are you going to teach when your own organs start to experience the slippage?
A first-degree cystocele, for most women, is totally manageable with the Whole Woman work, and most women even in active jobs are able to learn what they need about how to move and bend and even lift safely. But what do you do when your livelihood depends upon teaching other women how to achieve a sixpack?
We have had exercise and yoga instructors here, who have actually changed their programs to allow for better pelvic organ support and safer moves for women. But what do you do when it is not your call, so to speak? You are hired to teach women to do things that you now know are harmful. Furthermore, in order to do so, you have to keep performing these bad moves yourself, greatly complicating the process of your own organ stabilization.
I realize I am saying all the things that you didn’t want to hear. But I truly do not know the answer.
One path might be to continue doing just what you’re doing, because you have no other options (or at least, none that are feasible at this time). But then you are faced with two issues. One is that you are teaching woman something you know is harming them, and there is surely going to be an emotional cost to you. The second issue is that your own progress will be slower than normal (because this work takes time even under the best of circumstances). Everything that you do OUT of Whole Woman posture will make it that much harder ever to make it an automatic part of your life.
If you have taken a leave of absence because of this, you are under great pressure to decide your next move. You can go back to work, and do all the things you were doing before (except that you know something now that you didn’t know then). But I can’t say how well you will do with the WW work if you are unable to commit to it during working hours. You will be better off than if you did nothing at all, though.
This work will remove much of the fear that living with prolapse can cause. But you won’t see much progress if you aren’t doing it full-out. You definitely have some things to mull over. I am hoping the best for you. - Surviving
PS: I just re-read your post and a thought occurred to me. Unless you are actually down on the floor doing crunches.....most of what you describe can be performed more or less in correct posture. Now, whether or not you can or will teach OTHERS to do it that way, that's another matter; but you have a degree of control over your own moves.
Sierra
February 25, 2015 - 3:06pm
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Thank you, Surviving60 for
Thank you, Surviving60 for spending so much time on a solution for me. Let me clarify that I am the "goto" person in my upscale personal training studio for people who have had surgery, have injuries, have neck/back/knee/hip (some replacements) pain, pre- and post-natal and then a few who just want to lose weight, run a marathon, play soccer/tennis/golf again or better, and some who just want to get fit. I'm also the nutrition person at my gym, not for body building, but for overall health and wellness. These people count on me and I have no intention of doing ANYTHING that is not WW correct and absolutely plan to do "no harm to others". Everyone keeps saying give it months/years and that it takes time. I've got to come up with a plan, for next week. Everyday I get better but I'm not lifting anything or bending, that's when I feel the set-back. You have no idea what I see…or maybe you do! Every woman that comes to me has to "pee" before jumping jacks or jump rope… The only advice that I've been able to give them.until now, is proper breathing, and form while working out (squating/lifting weights..) and kegals. Even postpartum friends and friends of friends ALL complain of "leaking" when they laugh or sneeze or jump… including young clients in their 20's and my 19 year-old daughter. It's been evident to me for years that kegals do NOT work but there's been no other options. If I could take 6 months off, I would spend some time with a business plan and target my clientele differently, rest and gradually build MY activity level back up. I just need to preserve myself while I figure out how to make those adjustments. I've been able to get people out of pain and put them back together without WW posture and have built a following from that. I'm ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that my client successes will be HUGE with WW. If the ww certification were in late February or March I would be enrolled and tell my clients that I'm in training. Timing is just not working with me right now. The women aren't doing any kind of heavy lifting or body building but the guys have built up to pretty substantial "guy" worthy weights. It's all still for sports, fitness, strength and endurance but a bit much for a trainer who is trying to heal from POP. Any suggestions form me in the ww training category? I'm in South Carolina, I know, which is off the beaten path. I've got the posture and completely understand but am not sure about weight distribution when squatting, relieving myself… I'm sure that the book/DVD package will clearly explain all of that. Although, even though I understand it completely, I also know that habits aren't undone overnight…herein lies my delimna. I am truly/completely focused on my clients during their sessions (because I care) and know that I will unintentionally "forget" about me. They all have ailments…now mine will be competing for my attention. I've tried wearing a rubber band on my wrist at home which doesn't work as a reminder. I'm now wearing a ring to remind me since it is an odd sensation for someone who never wears jewelry. Thought that I might see/feel the ring every time that I reach down to pick up weights or squat and reach for cable adjustments to pull up. I am not a big "situp" person as most of my clients have back/neck/hip pain or issues. I've never found that sit-ups do any of my clients any good except irritate their necks and backs… Adjusting my workouts for my clients is a given, it's the preserving my own body int he meantime that concerns me. I just went to the Post Office on my little island to BEG for my package. They said that I have to come back tomorrow. Not feeling good about USPS since I ordered it last Friday, "Priority Mail"! Tomorrow is Thursday…UGH!
Sierra
February 25, 2015 - 5:50pm
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What a great idea!!! Hiring
What a great idea!!! Hiring an assistant might just work. I have already told my clients that I have strained myself. I may be able to buy time while I search and just tell them that they have to get their own weights and do their own adjustments until I hire someone as an assistant. Their workouts may not be as fast-pasted as usual but I should be able to maintain for a few days. If I post on the local University and/or Medical School for anyone interested doing an "Internship" with a Personal Trainer, I should be able to come up with someone who's wanting to learn AND I love to teach. Our facility is a quick trip from both academic facilities downtown. As for the postures in between clients, unfortunately, the sessions are back-to-back and then I have a longer break. I could take a mat into the locker room for my first aid exercises and postures during my long breaks.
I knew that if I kept crying out here, something would come of it. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! It's harder to get out of a tornado once you are caught in it, so confusing. You just need someone to reach their hand in to pull you out….Thank you so much for all of the hands reaching in... :-) Finally, something that I can do instead of just wait. Yay!!
Surviving60
February 25, 2015 - 6:28pm
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Sierra
YOU my dear are going to be the best thing that ever happened to the women in your studio.
Many of us have felt that prolapse was a blessing, and this probably sounds laughable to any panicked prolapsed woman at the start. But this knowledge has changed the way we view our bodies profoundly, and I myself can honestly say I look and feel better at 64 than I did at 54.
There will be so many subtle ways that you will be able to make things better, more healthy, for the women who come to you and trust you for your knowledge. A few tweaks here and there...
Now here's what I'll be wondering. Will you learn to walk about the studio proudly flaunting a gorgeous lumbar and relaxed belly? I hope you will. - Surviving
PS: Look at this pic....I always thought this was probably as close as you would ever get to seeing a modern-day beauty queen in WW posture. Probably just a lucky camera angle, but doesn't she look great?
http://www.missflorida.org/#!miss-florida-2014/vstc5=victoria-cowen
Sierra
February 25, 2015 - 7:39pm
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She looks great! My posture
She looks great! My posture looks the same as the girl in the photo and my "Goddess Belly" looks nice. It's not too far off from how I have looked in the past. There's a lot to be said for standing tall and proud AND being happy to have your health! After my initial incident several weeks ago, when I was holding myself in a scared protective posture, my boyfriend asked me about my belly poking out and looking bloated. I guess he'll have to get used to it. Haven't figured out how to handle a comment from him. I'm sure that it's coming. He's doesn't mean to insult, just has no filter on thoughts that enter his brain. He may ask because he will assume that I am on my period (which does cause me to look pregnant). Any suggestions on comeback lines for the curious and unwanted comments?
Surviving60
February 26, 2015 - 4:14am
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snappy comebacks
I can't think of any at the moment, but we can work on that one. Meanwhile.....remember to keep the chest lifted. This forms the lumbar curvature and pulls the belly up. In someone as fit as you are, who probably doesn't carry an ounce of belly fat (unlike yours truly) I do not believe that you would look bloated while standing this way, only sleek and gorgeous. So - chest lifted! I had to remind myself of this quite a bit at the beginning, but I DO have a flabby belly, and really was conscious of not wanting to have a beer-belly look. I suspect your boyfriend is overly reactive right now to any change in your demeanor, because of what you've been through. A looser wardrobe for now might make everyone less aware of the change. - Surviving
Surviving60
February 26, 2015 - 5:35am
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Sierra - firebreathing
When you get your stuff, start teaching yourself firebreathing right away. It is demonstrated in the FAFP workout and you may think that it is not explained. But go to the Dictionary of Movements for the full demo (and it is also shown in the book).
Pulling in the belly reverses natural breathing and forces us to be chest breathers. This is why for some of us (definitely for me), firebreathing was not intuitive; I kept wanting to do the breathing sequence the other way around. Just pay close attention to Christine's instructions and you might even find it easier at first to do it on hands and knees. It is a very powerful tool for pulling the organs forward; I can always feel it doing just that. Good luck! - Surviving
Sierra
February 26, 2015 - 9:12am
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…and I am anxious to pay it
…and I am anxious to pay it forward on this journey. The medical field wants to treat symptoms but no one wants to throw fund or even research the cause. I found this with my Hashimotos and now with this POP. I just refuse to accept the ignorance. Thank God for people like Christine to be the guiding force. I've had other mentors along the way but she and her helpers are the best! I know that I will be a success story on your page one day soon. And all of you had to put up with me this first week with the anxiety and the self-pity… I'm glad that it's documented here on the site so that I will be able to see where I started on this journey and how far I will have gone in the months to come.
Sierra
February 26, 2015 - 9:20am
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Thank you S60, i was
Thank you S60, i was wondering where to begin. I know what you mean about having the breathing backwards. Every client that comes to me has it backwards. I know that diaphramatic breathing was just not effective enough for my tight abs and that I've been unknowingly limited in my range. I have my package and will begin with the fire breathing like you suggested.
Thanks to you ALL for getting me through this past week. Here I begin… :-)
Sierra
February 26, 2015 - 10:00am
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DVD is damaged :-(
So I watched the FAFP for about 5 minutes, never got into any postures or breathing, when a message came up on my Mac that said, " skipping damaged sections" then it paused for a few seconds and picked up again 45 minutes into the video, they are doing ballet. So basically the DVD is damaged and unable to be viewed….UGH!!
lanny
February 26, 2015 - 10:29am
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defective dvd
hi sierra,
so sorry to hear it. i'll get a replacement out to you first thing in the morning. it will go out priority express so you should have it monday. my apologies.
lanny
Sierra
February 26, 2015 - 11:32am
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I'm on it, safely held.
I'm on it, safely held. Thanks for the guidance. I am loving the book and flying through it. It ALL makes perfect sense and it all written in "my" language". You were right. I just need some tweaks. I've spent all day, everyday for years telling my clients, "Chest up, shoulders down, breath out on exertion, not from your chest but from your abdomen". Now I just need to incorporate the relaxed belly for ME and THEM. I have range of motion and the strength, it's just those darn tight abs! I'm alternation between reading and getting up to breathe and stretching… I can see myself telling my story of enlightenment one day!
wholewomanUK
March 2, 2015 - 12:43pm
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Resources
Some further thoughts..
My heart goes out to you Sierra- it reminds me of how stressed I was about a) experiencing pelvic organ prolapse and b) the thought go going back to work!
First things first: Realise that stress literally doesn't help and can make your prolapse worse. Sooo, part of our WW journey is to reduce our levels of stress, develop strategies, strengths and resources to do so. Finding the joy in our lives; what makes us happy, prioritising happiness and reducing stress is I think a core element of this work. Rick Hanson is a psychologist who teaches this for free online; one possibility is to sign up for his JOT/just one thing letter each week. Think of ways to reduce stress and increase joy; a hot soak in the bath, a full moon walk, a delicious drink, a hug, a good film..
Christine and Lanny have developed a host of resources, many of them for free, Plug in Whole Woman Posture/Yoga/exercises… into google and click on videos - wonderful demonstrations for free! No need to wait for the post..
Let people know you've had some health problems. We're all only human. You're not up to your usual robust self, so be careful - and that's ok. In time you may find it easier to share your problems with a select few people and then over time feel more confident to share your experience and knowledge with a wider circle. So few people understand this approach - and so many women suffer pelvic organ problems… Far from destroying your work, it could be the making of it! I'm a yoga teacher who was initially totally mortified to have pop, but now I'm a teacher with a difference in demand and making a positive difference to so many people…
Wishing you all the best of luck. With love, wholewomanukxx
Sierra
March 2, 2015 - 4:18pm
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encouraging words
Thank you, WWUK. I have been doing just what you suggested. Fortunately, I am out of the panic anxiety phase, thank goodness! I have been really enjoying my FAFP, but mostly the 3 wheel yoga DVD's and epsom salt baths. I too am embarrassed that this happened to me being a personal trainer, stretch therapist and a yogi. Of course, now I understand that 2 of those worlds (training for tight abs and all of those boats in yoga) contributed to my POP (still not happy about that). I have taken now my 3rd week off. I have explained to my clients that I have a hip flexor strain from my old hip injury. They all know about my disc degeneration and pain that I live with about 50 % of the time. I'm just too embarrassed to tell them that my organs are falling out. I know that I can't go back to doing what I was I was doing, not because of my injury, but because of what I now know. My story was so similar to Christine's personal story on the DVD (can't remember which one). Mine started 6 years ago with me crying to my CHi-Running workshop teacher that I couldn't hold my coffee cup and was having carpel tunnel symptoms. This was not too long after my 2nd breast augmentation surgery (performed to correct the first one from 10 years earlier). This chi-running instructor became my mentor and cured me of the pain through Active Isolated stretching therapy to correct my postural alignment which went along with the Chi-running (similar to barefoot running philosophy). I studied under him and became certified for the therapy and certified as a personal trainer as I began to understand that the posture issues (caused by the breast augmentation AND horse back riding falls to the neck and hip years earlier) had caused tightness and weakness in my thoracic, cervical and lumbar spine. When my mentor moved away almost a year later, I found a new mentor who was a massage therapist practicing as a personal trainer. Upon taking a poll of everyone that I know ( I grew up in this town so it was a big list), his name was give to me by EVERYONE as the best in town. I began training under him AND working out with him. He loved learning from me about the Stretching Therapy. Our philosophies were the same about range of motion being just as important as strength. He pointed out to me that my breast augmentation had caused my seratus, subsapularas, lats… to become shortened and thus too tight and weak. He explained that between that and the women who can't do jumping jacks without leaking, he could teach me to help this huge market of women in our very upscale suburban area. While he was here, I learned something everyday just standing next to him. His instincts were so good. He made all of his personal trainers at the time do yoga which was unheard of in that industry. He also made me put together, on a life-size skeleton, muscle by muscle, using different color play-do, every muscle of the shoulder complex (rotator cuff) before I could work for him. He was tougher on me that his other trainers because they weren't as inquisitive as I was. I asked a LOT of questions. When he left (moved away) and I was left to my own devises, I began to get busy with the huge clientele that I had built up. He still owns the studio and sends me referrals weekly. When people are frustrated with their Physical Therapist and are still in pain, they end up finding me on-line or through friends. I've been turning clients away int he last months. I got so busy that i began to take short cuts on my own workouts, yoga and stretching. Unfortunately, none of that was enough to keep me from experiencing this POP. Like Safely Held said earlier, now what to do with what I know? I can't wrap my brain around the idea of going back to the environment where I work with the new information that I have. I will have to take a hiatus. As of now, my clients won't even train with another trainer because they trust me not to hurt them and they don't trust the others. I'm not sure what this will turn into but I am giving myself another week before I start making some phone calls and sending some emails out about doing something different. I already have clients who come to me instead of their Physical Therapists because I am a stickler for postural alignment for EVERY exercise INCLUDING when they walk into the studio and how they sit at work, sleep at night… They mostly complain that the PT's don't even watch them do the exercises. Up until my POP, I had whole woman posture down except for the fitness trend of naval in. Fortunately my clients aren't as diligent as I am about planks and using (over using) my core and specifically my lower abdominals so they haven't been hurt by my teachings up until this point. It was me maintaining the look (ripped abs) for my profession that did me in, and I did look the part. It's taken 3 weeks now to get my lower abs to release for true, deep belly breathing. I'm just thinking and typing about how to turn this into something. I can't walk back in there next week and just start doing things differently. I'm going to tell my clients that I'm on a journey to heal myself and discovering some powerful methods for maintaining strength, posture, fitness, health AND curing my own hip/shoulder/back/knee weakness and pain. (After only 3-4 days of doing the DVD's my neck pain is better and my POP symptoms are diminishing more everyday). I am going to tell them that I will be in touch with them when i am ready to teach what I have learned. They all know that I LOVE to teach them why they are doing an exercise and what the proper postural alignment is for EVERYTHING. I even have a client with and Ischeal Tuborosity injury who I know would benefit from this WW approach. Not sure how to translate the WW approach to a 47 year-old guy who just wants to ride his bike and play soccer. These are the things that I am needing to figure out.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am in aw of this program and by biggest stressor right now is the good kind: How do I learn this stuff sufficiently to begin work again with a completely different mindset? This is truly a journey for me and the potential outcome is exciting.!
Sierra
March 2, 2015 - 5:41pm
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SH, I can't think about
SH, I can't think about anything else BUT furthering and expanding what I do into something new! I am totally bummed that the training was in January...I can't wait until 2016. I am just breathing and focusing on my own healing at the moment. I know that it will all come together and lead me to my next phase. Thank all of you on the forum for your encouraging words even in my darkest moments. It's amazing what a few days in WW posture can do for mind, body and spirit.