My first post.

Submitted by Sierra on February 20, 2015 - 2:07pm
Body: 

I am happy to find this sight. I have been getting confusing information since my prolapse incident 2 weeks ago. I do not fit ANY of the traditional criteria for typical prolapse. If I read one more list that includes smoking, being overweight, out-of-shape… I am going to scream. I've cried out of pure frustration about as much as I can cry. I am a 48 year-old personal trainer, stretch therapist, yogi… I am baffled by the information that I've gotten from several Physical Therapists, Ob/GYNS/s… I had my children almost 20 years ago and until this past winter, have been in the best shape of my life with ripped abs, strength, athleticism. I've known that this was about posture. My previous cervical and lumbar spinal injury(horse back riding incidents that occurred 15 years ago) pain had suddenly flared up after being down with the flu for a week over the stressful holidays. Yes, I'm a woman and tried to do everything. I've felt all along that my neck pain, recent posture, being laid up with the flu had more to do with the prolapse than anything. I was tired, worn down from the holidays and being sick, and was feeling it in my posture which is my weakest link. Exercise keeps me strong and the pain at bay so when I can't exercise, I go from having the best posture at the gym ( my trademark) to the worst. None of the PT's wanted to talk to me about my posture with the prolapse. WTH?! I know a lot about corrective exercise for posture and work with clients everyday about diaphragmatic breathing and kegals but have obviously never been schooled on this methodology for pelvic floor, internal organ position. It goes along with everything that I know about my body and why this happened to someone without ANY of the triggers that I keep reading about.(I've never been constipated in my life and eat an EXTREMELY healthy diet). I've been a year into a Hashimoto's diagnoses and eat cleaner and healthier than most athletes on and AIP diet. I can fix this prolapse with the right information. This is the only site that has given me hope.

Now can someone please tell me how to find the complimentary video by Christine Kent? Also, who's ordered the video's and how do you like them?
I'm ready to cancel my PT appts and try her method? It just makes perfect sense in my case. It was my initial instinct. Severe neck pain on a Monday, can't hold my shoulders down or my chin in, then prolapse doing a normal workout on Wednesday?!?! Feels like a direct correlation. PT said, "let's do your kegals and then we can talk about your neck later." I wanted her to look at my postural alignment and lumbo pelvic hip complex, especially now that I'm walking around trying not to let anything fall out. It's the worse posture that I can think of but without any guidance and kegals being the only road, I've been lost! UGH!!!!

Thank you for this support group. A support group for Hashimotos got me through some awful stuff and this prolapse is worse. I'm counting on y'all!

Sierra

Forum:

Sierra

February 20, 2015 - 3:07pm

I have watched the video and have ordered the yoga package for $139.00. I feel that if I can get the right exercises and the right posture and breathing along with an explanation or the "why", then I can reverse this prolapse and avoid expensive Therapy and Surgery. I am wondering if I should have ordered the big package for $199.00. Any thoughts out there? I can probably still change it. My goal is to reverse the prolapse, go back to being a personal trainer and take with me a wealth of knowledge to my community of silent sufferers. The statistics are staggering!

Aging gracefully

February 20, 2015 - 3:34pm

Hi Sierra,
The best place to start is usually the beginning. Christine's Saving the whole woman book will explain all things prolapse, letting you know how we all got to this point. Her First Aid for Prolaspe is really the best dvd to start with to really get a good understanding of this work in our day to day activities.

I am getting the feeling you are in a big rush here, I think it's time to take a deep breath! It took us time to develop prolapse, and it will take time to start alleviating these symptoms.
Start by reading everything you can on this site, it is a good starting point to better understand why whole woman posture is the only posture we should always have had. There is much for you to unlearn too, I am thinking, from reading your post, and I think you are not going to like that part, but please keep an open mind as you go along. Christine has spent years studying and researching everything about prolapse, and for most of us finding this work was an eye opening experience.
Best wishes to you, and take your time with all this.

Sierra

February 20, 2015 - 3:44pm

Thank you, Aging Gracefully.

I am definitely enthusiastic. It's not that I am unlearning, there have been gaps and inconsistencies in my field in posture assessments, pain management...and now the lightbulbs are going off left and right and gaps are closing. I have nothing else to do as returning to work right now is not feasible until I can fix myself. All that I have is time and this site. I appreciate all that you have to offer. I put a rush on my order and have been reading all of the posts. All other research leads to Kegals which I haven't even given a chance, my gut and logic have been telling me that they are not what i need. I just need those last few peaces (gaps) closed and I will be off to the races on this! Not literally. It will actually be more like a calm walk and yoga on the beach which will be followed by a return to work with a more knowledgeable and helpful approach to my clients. I am so grateful for all of this information!

chickaboom

February 20, 2015 - 5:11pm

I think it was probably those ripped abs - and the intra abdominal pressure that resulted from the exercises that make those rip abs - that played a big role in your pelvic organs falling back out of your lower belly (where they belong) and into your vagina. You don't sound like the type to sit around and twiddle your thumbs though and I'm sure you'll have this thing's butt kicked in no time.

Aussie Soul Sister

February 20, 2015 - 9:08pm

Dear Sierra,
I though this blog of Christine's would interest you.

https://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=1074

Welcome to your Whole Woman journey,

Aussie Soul Sister

Sierra

February 21, 2015 - 3:26am

Chickaboom,
EXACTLY! Thanks for the article. Awesome stuff!!! Yes. I had already begun to evaluate my situation based on the initial article for this site and Christine's video. You saw the same light bulb glaring that I did! Even worse, unfortunately, I'd been correcting (over-correcting) my lordosis which I'd always felt, gut feeling, was natural for me and NOT the cause of my lower back pain. I'm realizing that it was my cervical spine injury and the Kyphosis, hip injury and weakness causing the hip/back pain alone. If I'd have stuck with correcting those 2 issues, this would have never happened. It's all of the information out there about Hanging leg raises and all of the other exercises out there that are supposed to help with weak lower abdominals causing weak pelvic floor. I had amped up all such exercise (obviously causing my problem) in the last months as my kegals were not working. All of this created overactive lower abdominals and interfered with my breathing… and you all know the story. It was NOT the way to go. My favorite Oprah quote is, "When you know better, you do better." I knew enough to strengthen my hips, core, correct my thoracic curve by keep my shoulders down and cervical spine neutral but it was the over-correction of my lordosis that did me in. It all makes perfect sense. I'm serious when I say that I feel better after only hours of using that knowledge. Two weeks of PT with e-stem therapy had me feeling worse, more pressure, more discomfort, and had begun to have burning and pain. I will be canceling my PT appt on Monday. Thank you for all of those who came before me… and internet! :-)

Surviving60

February 21, 2015 - 3:24am

Hi Sierra, just wanted to add my welcome to the bunch. Whole Woman work is definitely a series of lightbulb moments. Here are a couple of Christine's articles explaining why kegels don't work and actually aggravate by pulling the organs IN the direction of the prolapse....good reading!

https://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=1497
https://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=118

Surviving60

February 21, 2015 - 3:31am

Sierra, for years I was an enthusiastic kegeler and also did the original Jane Fonda workout video to keep in shape. Lots of killer abs moves, and constant reminders to keep stomach tight and butt pulled in. Oh if only I could turn back the clock on all of that! - Surviving

Sierra

February 21, 2015 - 3:49am

Surviving 60,
Thanks for the articles! These are the ones that got me to this site. Yes, I was an aerobics instructor when I was 14 and have gone through all of the exercise fads, including dear Jane. I have the bad knees to show for all of that high impact craziness too. I don't miss those days but it's so cold here in SC that I would love some leg warmers right about now. Thanks for all of the support! My light bulbs won't let me sleep which is so much better than the anxiety from this whole experience keeping me awake. This condition/incident has been life-changing for me in a negative way; but finding Christine and all of you has been life-changing in the best way!!

Sierra

Surviving60

February 21, 2015 - 3:53am

Sierra, life changed for me the minute I found this site, because the fear and confusion were quickly replaced by a more productive mindset. Take your time and do not rush this.....you will continue to have your ups and downs, but you will learn to love your body in a way you never did before. Best of luck on this amazing journey. - Surviving

gr8fl

February 21, 2015 - 9:21am

Just have a quick second, but I wanted to let you know how happy we are that you found WW and that you are already so quickly understanding how right it is and how 'wrong' many of the current standards in fitness - particularly for women- are. You are absolutely correct in wanting to scream if you hear one more time' smoking, being overweight, out-of-shape' as being the only precursors to prolapse. This is our medical system when it comes to prolapse and it so clearly demonstrates how little they understand about it. I too had none of those 'risk factors'. But like you, I have spent my entire life incorporating fitness- including those rock hard abs that allowed for that ultra flat, streamlined torso. I think it was that, subsequently losing my lumbar curve and poor bathroom habits (constipation most of my life) that did it. My two deliveries were uncomplicated (though I wish I hadn't pushed for 2 hours on my back with my first), and they were small babies. So again, I truly believe the leading factor in my development of prolapse at a younger age is due to the sucking/tucking, flat, hard abs, resistance training is such a way that didn't allow my organs to remain in a relaxed belly protected by intraabdominal pressures, etc. It most certainly wasn't because I was overweight, out of shape or a smoker! Sheesh. PT did nothing for me, and neither did kegels.
Long story short, for those of us used to striving for the look of the fitness magazines because we believe that is the picture of a healthy female body, this work does require a paradigm shift in thinking. But it is SO worth it, and my body has never been healthier than it is now after 2 full years of WWW. Plus, it sounds like you are already realizing one of the most fundamental elements to Christine's work- it is all self evident. Do the posture, do the exercises and you will actually be able to feel and experience those pelvic organs moving away from the vagina. It is a very beautiful thing.
My best to you on your WW journey!! -gr8fl

mountaingirlash

February 21, 2015 - 9:58am

I have uterine prolapse and recently diagnosed cystocele. My GYN prescribed estrace vaginal cream. I use 1 gram 2x a week and it has helped. I am uncomfortable using this synthetic estrogen as my mother and sister both had breast cancer (Mom-now 85 is a 20 year survivor with only a lumpectomy and radiation treatment and sister is 53, also had lumpectomy and radiation) I expressed my concern to my doctor and she said this type of estrogen is even given to cancer patients. She also said that if I didn't get relief that surgery would be the next step to correct the cystocele and then remove my uterus at the same time. I do not want surgery. I have engaged my acupuncturist (seen 2x a month) to help. I also have an appointment with a therapeutic yogi to show me some helpful yoga poses. I have Christine's book and First Aid DVD. My question is...should I discontinue the use of the Estrace Cream...is there a danger in using it?

Sierra

February 21, 2015 - 10:06am

Gr8fl,
Thanks for the warm welcome. I also regret delivery my 2 children on my back with and epideral and the Dr. telling me when to push. I had no idea what muscles I was using and my legs actually fell off of the stirrups one time. They said that I was lucky to have felt nothing at all from the waist down. Hind site is 20/20. I wish that I had been educated enough to demand to be able able to squat and move around and not to get the epidural. Their pitch, " Just get the epidermal so that you can enjoy the delivery". The episiotomy was almost all the way through. My babies came fast after the dr broke my water, another unnatural thing. He had to rush to get his gloves on for my first. Baby came quick without time for the stretching phase. I tell my young mothers that I train to use a mid-wife, massage the perineum… They are not receptive. It's been 20 years and not much has changed in what young women are being told about delivery. It's so frustrating. BTW I wasn't striving for the look. I just have such a clean, nourishing diet that my body fat is low. If I maintain strong stabilizing muscles to keep the pain away and be able to keep being active I will naturally have a great, fit look. I will just be stronger and more naturally fit with this methodoligy. There was a phase a few years ago when that's where I was. My nickname is ZenFitGirl. Didn't feel like using it for this site because I have been feeling like the opposite of that since this happened. My plan is to get back there, be back to work, back on my SUP board, back to surfing and being physical; it's my anti-depressant. This has hit me hard because I've been told for 2 weeks now not to do anything except lie on my back and do kegals. I'm one that wants to know why. Until this site, no one could give me answers. I'm serious, when the PT told me that we were not going to consider my posture, or my new protective posture which looks like me hunched over ready to catch anything that falls out…ugh. I told her that my postural strength and alignment are the only things that keep me out of pain. She said just be patient, lie down, do your kegals and let's see if we can keep you from having surgery. I expect these people to know more than me. I'm just a little ole trainer who started my career 8 years ago after having carpel tunnel symptoms and lots of pain. I still learn stuff everyday because I seek knowledge and scrutinize what I read. These Dr.'s and PT's make a LOT more money than me but allow themselves to become stagnant. My PT, she's the specialist for POP in my area with her e-stem machine, even told me that she did the kegals herself but ended up having the surgery. She said that everything is fine now and she can run… Instinctively, I didn't believe her that she's cured?1? The next visit I asked her if I will be able to lift small weights, do my job…. She said, "No. This is a life changing injury". I believed her then that she believes that AND that she is not "Whole Again" after the magical surgery. I have to give her credit for being honest in that regard because her honesty in that regard made me fight harder, search more and then I found this site :-)

Sierra

February 21, 2015 - 10:18am

Mountaingirlash,

Thank you for bringing this up. My GYN and PT suggested vaginal estrogen cream, (low estrogen being another "cause"). While this MAY help women with low estrogen? Know your body and do your homework. No one asked me if I have low estrogen. As a matter of fact, my GYN has me taking double dose of my progesterone only Birth Control Pill because of my heavy periods and duh, high estrogen symptoms. My Hashimotos causes me to have a tendency to be estrogen dominant. I've helped the problem by taking all toxins out of my life. I have regular periods on the heavy side and get high estrogen symptoms when I am exposed to more toxins (travel…) I am not symptomatic at all for menopause or perimenopause.
The bottom line is that make sure that you indeed have symptoms of low estrogen before you take estrogen supplementation. In my case, they just started writing the prescription before even considering that it might not be a cause. So frustrating. I would love to hear what others say about this topic. My integrative Dr. laughed and reminded me of all of this. I was embarrassed that I got sucked into the idea without thinking it through. It made NO sense for me.

Surviving60

February 21, 2015 - 11:02am

These help relieve prolapse symptoms by thickening the vaginal tissues. Kind of like putting a very poor bandaid on the problem. Doctors minimize the absorption rate through the skin, but we know differently. It's a personal decision of course. I myself would never use estrogen and prefer to manage the position of my organs, not mask the problem with dangerous hormones. - Surviving

Surviving60

February 21, 2015 - 11:13am

Glad you have found Whole Woman. You have been given some of the worst prolapse advice there is. Estrace, and then if that doesn't help, cystocele "repairs" and hysterectomy? This person gets paid a fortune for spewing that kind of nonsense upon women. Hope you are finding the information you seek; keep us posted on your progress. - Surviving

Aging gracefully

February 21, 2015 - 12:15pm

My mother used this estrogen cream for ten years for vaginal dryness, and her tryglicerides skyrocketed from it. She now uses the dab of honey with much more natural and soothing affects without all the harmful side affects that estrogen creams have.
And, using it for prolapse just seems ridiculous when you find out that the only thing that helps pelvic organ prolapse is in fact postural. Stick with whole woman to help your prolapse, and ditch the cream.

Aging gracefully

February 21, 2015 - 12:33pm

I was having very extreme perimenopausal symptoms just a few years ago, with extremely heavy huge clotty periods and extreme anxiety. I really thought I was going out of my mind. High estrogen was running rampant along with overly taxed adrenal function. I started using a progesterone cream that I am not all that convinced really did anything for me.
A year later, I developed a severely prolapse uterus. So I am doing all this studying on my hormones and on my prolapse, luckily finding whole woman to help with that aspect.
The perimenopausal symptoms took a bit more study and time. I ended up really cleaning up my diet, finding the biggest culprits being caffeine, alcohol, and sugar. Processed foods had to go too. It took another year of diligence to finally find that calm place to live in perimenopause which I still am in, but think I am heading to the end of. Periods getting shorter and lighter,and no more or very small clots.
I will have a coffee on occasion or a drink once in awhile. I do miss those, but I know I can't push it too far, and I know that because I will start feeling that tell tale flush in my face, and to back it off again.
I am in a good place now, just waiting for my next adventure in womanhood. Seems like we are continually learning something new about ourselves.

Sierra

February 21, 2015 - 12:54pm

Aging Gracefully,
My story was similar including the same symptoms. I've been on an increased dosage (double my daily BC pill) progesterone for almost a year and now prolapse. I've asked everyone and can find no research. I would love to know if you find any correlation. I've asked the question about decreasing the progesterone. It sounds suspicious in your case and I was already suspicious about it in my case. I was told, "No. Don't worry." Sierra

Aging gracefully

February 21, 2015 - 1:15pm

I was using the wild yam version from the health food store, but never got complete relief of my symptoms until I started making the dietary changes and including more activity.
I don't know about the correlation of hormones and prolapse. Christine would know, but I have often wondered if it played a part.
But, I do know that most of the reason I have prolapsed is from everything I was doing wrong. Very heavy lifting as a nurse's aid, very bad constipation and straining, slouching in soft furniture, sucking and tucking. Ya, I pretty much did everything wrong to get where I am today.
I am in a so much better place now though. It feels like we are on top of the world, my prolapse and me!

Sierra

February 21, 2015 - 1:40pm

I found this study but have no idea what it means. Perhaps someone else does. I know that my mother had her thyroid removed in her 20's, hysterectomy in her 30's and 2 unsuccessful prolapse surgeries in her 40's and 50's. I was diagnosed with a thyroid condition and now have POP. There may be something to the genes and that make us more predisposed. My PT actually told me that POP is common in skinny, Blue-eyed blondes. I found that entertaining and it made me laugh when I remembered it this morning :-)
I still think that it would be nice for my daughter to have gene analysis and consultation so that she'll know what she is more pre-disposed to experience.

Here's the study:
Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand. 2009;88(7):835-8. doi: 10.1080/00016340902822073.
Progesterone receptor polymorphism is associated with pelvic organ prolapse risk.
Chen HY1, Chung YW, Lin WY, Chen WC, Tsai FJ, Tsai CH.
Author information
Abstract
Progesterone and progesterone receptors (PGR) are known to play important roles in the pathophysiology of pelvic organ prolapse (POP). We investigated whether the PGR gene polymorphisms were associated with POP by conducting a case-control association study in 87 women with POP and 150 women without POP. Genotypes of the PGR gene polymorphisms (rs500760 and rs484389) were determined by polymerase chain reaction, followed by restriction fragment length polymorphism analysis. There was significant difference between women with and those without POP in the distribution of the PGR rs484389 genotypes evaluated. Using multivariable logistic regression, older age, increased body mass index, menopausal status, and PGR rs484389 genotype CT were significantly associated with POP. The present study shows that PGR genotype may be associated with POP.
PMID: 19267271 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Aging gracefully

February 21, 2015 - 1:47pm

That is funny. I guess I don't fit that stereotype, being the exact opposite.

Interesting study. Christine always tells us that the root cause of prolapse really is postural in nature, but other factors such as hormones, she would have to comment on. I really wouldn't know, but would be interested in what others would have to say on the subject.

lifegoeson04

February 21, 2015 - 2:28pm

it is strange that my physical therapist also assured me I had to kegal for life now and that she had always worked her pelvic floor with Kegals but also had a rectocele and yet they still think it works!! Because I had a major bleed with second baby they referred me for physical therapy but I declined as the last one wanted me holding urine. I had a few nurses come and ask me why, I explained that I don't kegal and they were very interested as they all had issues with leaking urine. I obviously said about Christine's work and some said they would look, I never discuss it with friends at all. But strange how they still always believe it's the best work though they all have issues.

lifegoeson04

February 21, 2015 - 2:31pm

i always worked on my abs from very very young, didn't enjoy it wanted that perfect stomach. Now I know it's not a good thing so agree with chickaboom about abdominal pressure and working on relaxing those muscles. I notice when I do any exercises or lifting I always seem to use my stomach, still an ongoing issue for me! Keep trying to stop myself.

mountaingirlash

March 7, 2015 - 6:11am

Update: I am throwing out the estrace cream. I have had a session with a therapeutic yoga instructor who helped me design some poses for morning and evening along with visualization of my organs in the right place. I am even going to create a drawstring bag as part of my visualization to represent holding the organs safely and snugly in place. Along with Christine's exercise and the mindfulness of the whole woman posture during the day...i can tell a difference! I am also changing my wardrobe a bit to comfortable clothing that promotes the whole woman posture and doesn't increase intra-abdominal pressure. The mind and body work so well together. Thanks for the comments and encouragement!

Surviving60

March 7, 2015 - 6:49am

Oops careful there, I'm not sure about the drawstring bag unless you are referring to Christine's analogy of the drawstring versus the closing of the elevator doors (in her kegel articles). The drawstring is like the kegel, which is what you aren't supposed to be doing (squeezing the muscles as if to hold the organs in, which actually pulls them in the wrong direction). Maybe I am reading your comment wrong. - Surviving

Snapcracklepop

March 7, 2015 - 7:08am

Mountaingirlash,

At some point, would you be willing to share the yoga poses you designed? I really like the idea of drawstring bag visualization too!

A little update since I don't post often...I continue to slog away at the work. One of the things that is very key for me with the posture is correct placement of my chin. It amazes me that this little shift makes such a difference! And, I've been really paying attention to my diet, focusing mostly on eating whole foods and getting enough fluids. My defecation situation continues to improve as I keep reading what people have shared here and experimenting with the different strategies.

As always, many thanks to Christine and this incredible forum. What a blessing! And, I absolutely love the forum intro. Makes the mission of the WW forum crystal clear, and I imagine it creates an easeful efficiency for the generous woman who post in support so often.

May WW reach everyone in need of it and continue to transform the culture around prolapse to one that truly empowers women!

Snapcracklepop