lightbulb moment - tingling tops of feet and hyper mobile (dorsi) flexion of feet

Submitted by Sierra on March 9, 2015 - 5:18pm
Body: 

I have tingling on the tops of my feet and electric shock pain in my toes when I point them. This is not a complete surprise to me as I am aware of the correlation between limbo-pelvic hip complex and feet. I have hyper mobile dorsi-flexion (foot flexion) and weak/limited range planter flexion (foot pointed) and the beginning of bunions in both feet but worse in the right. The right is also where the sharp pain in 2nd and third toe is felt in flexion ( sorry for the run-on sentence). Sounds like I am breaking through some tight muscles in the tops of my feet which is an awakening for the nerves. I stay on my heels and in dorsi-flexion so much that my feet have forgotten how to perform. The WWW DVD's are awakening my feet like nothing else ever has.

When Christine mentioned the direct link between weak arches and weak lumber, it was one of my lightbulb moments. I've known this and wanted to discuss this and my recent setback and tendency towards kyphosis, etc. with my PT on my initial visit following my POP incident. I also wanted to talk about my old hip injury and how it must have contributed (internal ligaments and nerve damage). They both (I went to a second one for a second opinion) only wanted to talk about me lying on my back doing kegals. I cried out of frustration and a sense of feeling lost. I reluctantly did the e-stem Kegal therapy on my back because I didn't feel like I had anywhere else to turn. Fortunately, I only went to 3 PT sessions before I found this site.

This WW posture identified ALL of my spinal and posture issues and directly related them to the POP. It also identified exercises and yoga poses that do not support pelvic health and are bad for POP. Not surprisingly, I was an expert "boater" , naval in towards my spine, kegaler, etc. I could do a tree pose with my naval in, tailbone tucked and stand still for ever. I could do chair pose with my bum tucked like a pro and same with triangle. :-(

I was very good at everything that Christine says is bad for prolapse…now that made sense to me. One physical therapist told me to do nothing but kegals, 40 a day and come back in a week. The second PT told me to practice lots of planks and side planks to strengthen my transverse abdominals and mulitifus. That made no sense to me because I am an expert at plank and side plank. I even thought about going for the guinness book record for plank. That's like telling someone to go stretch a muscle that as loose as it can possibly get, pointless.

When Christine explained that all of these things mentioned above move the pelvic organs out of their natural position, well, there was my lightbulb moment. No wonder I have POP. I've been doing most things right but some VERY IMPORTANT things wrong which have caused me to compromise my lumbar curve, and affect the placement of my internal organs. The link between weak arches (bunions, plantar faschiitis, etc.) and weak lumbar was a lightbulb moment for me!

Forum:

Aussie Soul Sister

March 9, 2015 - 7:48pm

Dear Sierra,
When I visited my Mum's gym recently, I had to scrounge a pair of shoes as they have a shoe policy when near weights/machines.
Mum does do floor exercises in a room in a class setting though no weights or machines in there. ( She is 80 by the way and always has kept up her fitness...)
Luckily a daggy old pair of my DH's shoes fit the bill as they were amazingly flexible enough for me to still do the foot arch exercises, as I do all my WW exercises barefoot even the weights.
With care it is possible and I guess I can't sue myself if I drop a weight - I am extremely careful and mindful while using them...
I just know from doing this work that the foot is often completely forgotten as the amazing part of our bodies - indeed the foundation of our balance and physical development as babies...
The ignored feet hidden in counterproductive shoes, is what struck me the most on that gym visit - and the obvious counter productive exercises....

Hip issues and knee pain issues are linked as well as the inner ear and balance - just to name a few extra - I write of those in my I am living proof testimony thread.

Amazing journey,

Aussie Soul Sister

PS - sometimes while putting on lace ups on the floor, I lie down to tie the laces with foot up, and knee bent just as much as necessary to reach, & if they come undone, I test myself by balancing with my foot up - knee bent to do them up, depending on where I am - or find a wall to put my foot on....

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 7:33am

Aussie, yes the forgotten foot has caused me much pain over the years! The tingling for me is welcome because I know that those muscles on top are finally getting blood flow and the tingling is just the awakening of the nerves as they become un-impinged from the previously unyielding fascia and muscle. These workouts (all of the DVD's) are getting to the root cause and awakening all areas of my body, mind and spirit!

I'll try lying down for the tennis shoes!

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 8:15am

Aussie, I found my daughter's pink "toe" socks and have been wearing them since last night. They feel so yummy. My "yoga toes" which are also supposed to help with bunions and arches are not very comfortable and you can't walk around with them. But I find these "toe" socks very freeing to actually feel air between my locked up toes.

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 8:42am

They are making me more aware of my toes and helping me to use them when bending and to get the weight out of my heels which is one of those habits that I am having to working on constantly for now. I'm sure that it will be second nature soon!

wholewomanUK

March 10, 2015 - 9:20am

Hi Sierra,
Thanks for sharing your lightbulb moment - and your reasoning. It also illustrates that sometimes discomfort such as tingling, mild aches and pain may not be negative signs, but positive signs of areas of our body waking up and working/developing in positive ways. Of course if women are worried it's better to be safe than sorry and perhaps take certain exercises or approaches more gradually or seek further professional advice if worried. However if it's within reasonable levels, very often these'symptoms' are actually positive signs of the WW work beginning to work that area of the body.

Good luck and as Aussie Soul Sister says: Enjoy the (never-ending) journey!
:) wholewomanuk

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 10:13am

Yes, WholewomanUK. If I weren't so aware of my issues from years of dealing with it, I would be worried. Others should listen to their bodies and take the better safe than sorry approach. If in my case, I didn't already know exactly what is going on, I'd be seeking help for sure.

Aussie Soul Sister

March 10, 2015 - 1:32pm

Dear Sierra,
Last year the Whole Woman Conference main topic was feet and Surviving posted the link below to the sox that help separate the toes.
Toe sox would probably help too!

http://www.amazon.com/Cotton-Comfy-Alignment-Socks-Socks-Off/dp/B001RYWZ...

On my Birthday list!

Aussie Soul Sister
P.S - not sure if link still works :(

Surviving60

March 10, 2015 - 1:34pm

http://www.amazon.com/FOOT-ALIGNMENT-SOCKS-L-XL/dp/B002XNM79Y/ref=sr_1_1...

Love them because I can even wear them with flip-flops. - Surviving

Aussie Soul Sister

March 10, 2015 - 1:40pm

Dear Safely Held,
I am so sorry for the pain and discomfort you are having.
This is a Q for Christine as I don't have anything I can advise except the evening out effects on the whole body, of the Hips DVD that I recommend for everyone.

You did post here on this thread recently, and Christine answered, if that is any help.

https://www.wholewoman.com/forum/node/668

Wishing you all the best,
Aussie Soul Sister

P.S many thanks Surviving for the new link as I would like to get some of the sox soon! XO

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 2:50pm

SafelyHeld, I am so sorry that you are having such a tough time and feel as though you need answers but are afraid.

Is a phone consult with Christine an option for you? I am guessing that there are no WW practioners near you? Not being able to sit down is concerning.

Ironically, I just returned from a visit to a chiro. I hadn't been in 8 years. Even at the time that I went then, I didn't trust anyone with my body. I knew that I had to figure it out on my own. However, earlier today I was at my Integrative Dr's office for hashimoto's treatment (he is an Medical Dr but is preventive and natural/homeopathic... which I love the combo of those worlds)--he's brilliant! It occurred to me while I was in there to tell him how disappointed I was with the physical therapy for my POP and explained that I discovered a postural approach which is working. I told him that I am having some swelling and pain in my bad hip as I do from time to time but (it's getting worse as I go through this POP stuff) and want some guidance for that old injury as I feel that it has played a major roll in my POP. I told him that I want help but NOT from someone who's NOT open to something other than kegals--ugh! He referred me to his colleague, and friend, a chiro. I was able to go straight over there and see him (just got back). I told the chiro that i wanted help restoring my lumbar curve, strengthening my plantar flexion and/or help with bunions and wanted to find out how my injured hip and pain play into it. He did a 15 minute assessment, found everything to be generally strong (except my glutes and hamstrings) and flexible (except my psoas) and talked to me about making some orthopedics for my feet. I was against orthodics because I want mobility. He explained how they would help with mobility and why it would help on days when I HAVE to wear shoes. He said that I should go barefoot as much as possible and walk in the sand whenever possible which does feel so good on my feet. He had me do some exercises to engage/work my lumbar which involved hinging at the hips (yay), shoulders down, relaxed belly... He did have me in my heels to engage my posterior chain, but I couldn't get my lumbar or my glutes to engage even in my heels. It was very odd. He talked me through it making tweaks until I could feel my lumbar work (instead of my thoracic). He then gave me a you-tube video (14minute workout)
which took me through the same series of moves to help distinguish when I am working my lumbar and supporting muscles. Oh and he had me doing belly breathing to help engage my lumbar. I basically went in there and told him that I wanted someone to help me with MY methodology of postural alignment. I was nice about it and told him what I wouldn't do (no naval in or kegals…). He was surprised that both PT's I'd seen did not want to talk about my neck, back, hips or feet. He also said that equestrian injuries are the worst kind. He was very open and comforting. I told him that i needed someone who's open minded enough to address my posture (all within my beliefs which I listed). He was great and helped me get in touch with why I was not able to feel the lumbar work like I needed. He asked me if I've ever been adjusted and I told him that I had but was too nervous to have it done right now. He agreed and said that adjustment was a last resort.

I'm just telling you this story to let you know that you might be able to see someone for an assessment but just stand your ground and tell them what you want: reverse kyphosis, make sure lumbar is engaging properly, and determine how your glute/hip pain is related to weakness or tightness of any of the related muscles. Pain can be so tough on your mental state which is normal so don't beat yourself up for feeling down. Perhaps it's the bodies way of getting your attention so that you will address it. There is a solution for you but try not to be fearful. Fear stands in the way of action. I have worked with many in pain and there is always a cause that can be addressed. You just have to figure out what is causing it.

I really think that a conversation with Christine would be a great start! I hate to see you go backwards. You were right to speak up! You shouldn't and don't have to live with that kind of pain.

Wishing for you to get answers and get better soon!

Sierra

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 2:57pm

Aussie and s60, I'm ordering those now. They look scrumptious! Sierra

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 3:03pm

I have some vibrum shoes but they tend to give me in-grown toenails and my feet sweat so much in them that they rub me. I may pull them out when I have to walk on the hot pavement tomorrow and just try them again. I had bought the liner socks that go with them but will have to dig them up from I don't know where. I'm definitely getting those socks that you posted. They are perfect for around the house and sleeping.

Surviving60

March 10, 2015 - 3:04pm

Wish they came in black! Mine get filthy! Talking about the sox. - Surviving

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 7:18pm

http://www.amazon.com/S®-Alignment-Spacer-Relaxing-Comfort/dp/B00J4LZZLU

S60 this has the same ones, same brand, in all colors including black.

Sierra

March 10, 2015 - 7:23pm

S60 and Aussie, Was there a reason for the S&S brand?? The deliver says April 3 - 21st. I would rather have them sooner than 2 months…geez! I was just wondering if there was another brand that would work as well!

Surviving60

March 11, 2015 - 4:35am

No, no reason. That's just a photo I pulled off of Amazon. Mine look identical but I don't know what brand they are. - Surviving

Sierra

March 11, 2015 - 4:43am

SafelyHeld, I wanted to clarify what all of the gibberish in my last response to you was about. I too was feeling anxious about the swelling and new sensations in my hip in the last week. This same swelling and sensation has come many times before in the past but would always settled and I never worried much. However, since my POP I am hyper-sensitive about every little ache, pain and change. If I can't explain it based on what I know about my body then I become really anxious. I went to see the chiro for reassurance that everything was okay. Anxiety can be so debilitating and it can grow into an attack.

The chiro felt as though my hip wasn't swollen but perhaps rotated out of socket. He felt like the work to get my lumbar curve back which involved strengthening my glutes/hamstrings and stretching my psoas would help set it back into socket. That made sense to me that all of those years of externally rotating the femur and tucking would cause some raucous when I begin to untuck the pelvis thus slightly internally rotating the femur. All of this made sense and is in line with the work that I'm doing. That reassurance gave me some peace. The most peace that I've had in the since my POP. I know that something like that would help you. Just having someone validate what you are feeling will be huge. I was never that anxious about my body before POP, but find it to be the case now. I'm sure that it's a normal part of the process and will get better, but for now, get those questions answered somehow so that you can relax and feel more confident about what you are doing. I was told 8 years ago about degeneration in my spine and that my hip was rotated in 2 planes. None of that bothered me much because I understood that all that I can do is stretch what is tight, strengthen everything that needs it and get my posture as close to natural as possible. You probably know that the same holds true for your scholiasis. My first mentor, had scholiasts too which is how he had found chi-running and stretch therapy. His was from an airplane crash; mine is from several terrible horseback riding falls. We used to call the stretching "Oiling the Tin Man" because that's what most of us feel like sometimes. His reassurance about the pain and discomfort certainly kept me calm and moving forward. Hope this helps. It's what I intended to say earlier but missed the mark :-)

Surviving60

March 11, 2015 - 10:57am

Since Christine literally "wrote the book" on hips, I think it would be essential for anyone with these issues, to read it and follow her program before trying anything else. For those who are used to going to doctors, I can understand the desire to "validate" her teachings by a third party....though I don't know if you would get all the validation you desire, simply because most of the world still has it wrong. - Surviving

Surviving60

March 11, 2015 - 11:36am

Yes, I would say that my post was more directed to Sierra because she wrote about taking her hip issue to a chiro, and now feels better because he told her she was doing the right things for it. But it seems that was an approach she was advocating for you to, SH. For those of us who don't go to doctors, it does seem like Sierra went in search of validation of the WW work. And, she got it, so that's good. Many doctors aren't as good as her chiro. - Surviving

chickaboom

March 11, 2015 - 12:23pm

SH, I haven't been following all your posts so apologies if you've already mentioned this... but could that pain be tailbone (coccyx) pain? I had that for months after the birth of my third and it did gradually go away (that was when I had discovered ww). It still shows up randomly every now and then. But it was driving me crazy and it hurt so much to just sit and do things normally,whether in posture or otherwise

gr8fl

March 11, 2015 - 1:05pm

Chickaboom, I was wondering the same thing, though SH says hers is slightly off to one side. I just wanted to say to our sweet SH- hang in there! I know exactly what you are talking about by being sick of yourself and sick of the emotional pain. I also wish I had more of Surviving's unfaltering resilience. I didn't either and though it's something I still work on, I have a ways to go. Prolapse can bring about a whole slew of different sensations and feelings vaginally and beyond that need to sorted and dealt with both physically and emotionally. Hang in there, it really is still early days for you. Deep breath. Find some peace knowing that even this is often just a typical part of it all. It's ok for us all to sometimes need our own cheerleaders given that as women/moms we always carry our own pom poms for our loved one's needs. :)
As for the tailbone pain chickaboom mentions, I too wondered if this might be what you are experiencing. I had serious tailbone pain for a solid 1/2 year probably 1 1/2 years into this work. I also felt that it was an injury though I hadn't fallen or hurt myself in a way that would provoke the kind of pain I was experiencing. I spent a ton of time searching on this site for tailbone pain and I didn't find nearly as much info as I thought there'd be- though there certainly had been a few women from time to time that would be complaining of the same ailment I was experiencing. I don't have enough anatomy down to describe accurately what was going on, and I'm not at all sure I'm correct, but i can't help but believe that I'd somehow been able to, in the course of the work, create enough movement/actual change in my spinal configuration (including the lowermost part of it- tailbone) that perhaps there was some 'kickback' and adjustment...I don't know. All I know is that it lasted a very long time (again, at least 6 months) and hurt quite a bit. But I also just felt it was prolapse/WWW related and felt that the only thing to do is 'keep on keeping on'. I certainly would never advise on anything medical, but my vote would always be Christine for a consult. Had I had the funds at the time, that's the route I would gone when I was experiencing my tailbone pain. Regardless, hang in there SH- we all have our hissy fit days now and again. Like all other prolapse symptoms, happily, the longer we do the work, the more likely they are to be fewer and farther between. All the best- gr8fl

Surviving60

March 11, 2015 - 1:30pm

Gr8fl, the search function on the Forum was recently "repaired" and it is finding a lot more stuff than it was for awhile there. I don't know long it was corrupt, in relation to the period of time in which you were looking for discussions of tailbone pain. If you were to try it again, you will either 1) find something great that you didn't find before, or 2) you will be so overwhelmed by the number of hits, that you won't even want to attempt it (and this is why I'm always a little hesitant to tell newbies to search on something, unless it is something that we don't talk about much). - Surviving

gr8fl

March 11, 2015 - 2:13pm

Surviving- I wouldn't be surprised if, given the time frame, the search at the time that I was looking was less than optimal and so has subsequently been fixed. I may, at some point, attempt a new search, but also have a feeling I may end up finding an overwhelming number of discussions. At this time, I'm happy to report that I don't have that tailbone pain- and haven't for a nice long time. Knock on wood, I think I'll leave well enough alone at this point. Though I'm pretty curious so darn it, I may just have to dive in! ;)

SH- you are most welcome. I too got all sort of movement in my spine when first starting the work, lots of pops and cracks that felt so good and were all new. I think i described it in my first post as a sort of 'airing out' of my spine or something like that. Now that I'm focusing more on the high pony tail pull, I'm finding a few of those nice pops at the cervical spine level. Lovely....just lovely feeling. Regardless of which route you choose to go- just hang in there. Your newly post partum body is going through plenty of changes and healing and now you are adding a whole new way of carrying your body on top of all that. I'm certainly not the most experienced one out there, but to me, it sounds like you are doing great. The fact that you've embraced WWW the way you have tells me that you are absolutely on the right track and heading in the right direction. :) gr8fl

chickaboom

March 11, 2015 - 2:50pm

SH have u tried squatting and then inserting a finger or two and feeling your back vaginal wall. See if u can pinpoint where the pain is coming from. I remember when I had the tailbone pain, I had what felt like a diastasis recti but it was in the posterior wall and it was also really tender.

Miss Diagnosed

March 11, 2015 - 2:53pm

SH again a post resonating with me. I've just started seeing a counsellor to help me get my head around all of this and totally get where you are right now. If it's not one symptom causing worry it's another and I'm still gripped by the horrible fear of everything getting worse at least a few times a week....I wonder whether I'll look back on this first year of my baby's life and remember anything but POP turmoil and feel so guilty for it.
Anyway the counselling is helping I think although it is early days... Where I am we have voluntary services provided free of charge or on a donation basis for pnd and it might be worth looking into....I'm trying to practice mindfulness too and hold myself in the moment instead of live with regrets about the past and worries about the future - easier said than done....
Also - tailbone pain is a major thing for me. It was worst immediately before I discovered the rectocele and seems to come and go a bit each month. It's bad again today after having been gone for about three weeks and I cannot get comfortable at all. A few friends who have no POP issues (that they know of) had enduring tailbone pain for almost a year pp. maybe not pop related but birth trauma. I feel like my tailbone - which has always been very prominent - is even more prominent since my baby and sitting at an angle. It's weird. I too wonder about a chiropractor helping with this but am so skeptical about anyone messing about with my already dodgy bod.
Tomorrow is another day.....

Sierra

March 11, 2015 - 3:07pm

S60, I agree with you about the Hips book/dvd. I'm waiting patiently for mine to arrive as they've been on back order. I needed to make sure that I was addressing the WW work properly (I wasn't questioning the WW work at all). With a hip swelling more and more each day, I wanted to be sure of nothing serious going on in there since I can't feel pain in that hip. I do think that I struck gold with this guy being open, however, I also stood my ground and shut him down on a few things before he could even try. I'm sure that the hips package, and I will read it front to back, will answer my questions but until then I wanted to make sure that I was "getting it" and honestly, I was really struggling with the hinge and even more tentative because of the swollen hip.
I really didn't know what to expect from my visit and was prepared to smile and walk away if I needed.
I understand SH's dilemna as the closest ww practioner to me is 3 states away. SH situation sounds more complicated. I'm sure that she'll find guidance and answers and happy that we can all keep asking when things come up.

Surviving60

March 11, 2015 - 4:40pm

Sierra, here is something to be aware of, if you are considering a hips consult with a practitioner. Though posture is the cornerstone of the hips work, and Christine has always had plenty to say on the subject since the beginning, I don't believe the hips program as such was incorporated into practitioner training until maybe the 3rd year. I don't know if they have all gone through it. - Surviving

Sierra

March 11, 2015 - 4:56pm

S60, Thanks. I really feel confident that the hips book and DVD are going to get me clearer on what's going on. I realized after my visit with the chiro that I was hinging properly, kind of, but afraid to squeeze anything for fear that it would resemble a kegel. I knew that something was wrong with my tentative approach but didn't realize that I was hinging at the hips while trying not to use ANY muscles. He had me hold the hinge and belly breathe until I could relax the belly and feel the posterior chain (erector spine, glutes, hamstrings…) get a little warm. It was nice to have that guidance. I woke up with sore glutes for the first time and can feel myself using them better today because of it. I have been symptom free since that mini - session to correct my hip hinge and even noticed my hip swelling was less this morning.

Sierra

March 11, 2015 - 5:18pm

SH, It sounds like you have a lot of company in this tailbone pain. I hope that you find some comfort in that. It sure made me feel less concerned for you. I hope that gives you some small bit of peace. I will be thinking about you. When I receive my hips book, I know that i will be thinking of how it relates to your situation…and you ALL know that I will share my thoughts haha! We all grow through sharing even if it's pain and suffering that we are sharing. Namaste…SafelyHeld :-)