Squishy sounds in my bulge!!

Hi Cecilly,

As I recall you are post-hyst, so it is very possible that what you are describing could be bowel sounds. The bulge may be coming down from the top of the back vaginal wall, a condition called vault prolapse. On the other side of that bulge is the small intestine.

My great hope is that we can help post-hysterectomy women keep vault prolapse stabilized by teaching them to hold the abdominal contents forward and away from the outlet at the back. How is the WW work going? Are you able to maintain WW posture? Have you thought about an external support garment?

Christine

Hi Cecilly,
I think we've all fearful at some point or another. I think women with pop, like anybody facing difficult circumstances, would rather not have the problem they have, but there's no option to opt out! Fortunately the WW approach is, as far as I know, the only approach that comprehensively understands the female pelvic organ support anatomy and thereby is able to offer optimal approach to treatment.

The WW approach takes time and patience. It's a gradual process. I don't know how long or consistently you've engaged with the work. It becomes a way of life and 2nd nature in time.

In my opinion if you're anxious and keen for quicker results, I would recommend you try to incorporate the WW exercises on a daily basis, (of course with the inevitable omissions sometimes). But basically making a daily commitment whenever possible. I try to do or follow a dvd practice most days. The times I've missed a practice for 3 days or more, I personally notice my symptoms returning, which is a useful reminder!

Generally walking is good. Although I've found when I've personally found at times when I've been very symptomatic, I haven't wanted to walk so much. I've found forward bends helpful for walking at those times, before and during walking.

As you're concerned you may find it very helpful to buy 'Saving the WW' book if you haven't already. I would also recommend you book in for a tel/SKYPE/1:1 consultation with Christine or a WW teacher - or sign up for the on-line course with includes a consultation with one of the WW teachers - and a free conference call with Christine for the first something or other customers.

Take heart. Most of us have been freaked out at some point or another. I certainly have. But with the WW work we can help ourselves - and if/when we're strong enough to do so, we can help others who are in that horrid place we once were!
Love, knowledge and courage! wholewomanukx

Cecilly, we are all doing the work of holding our abdominal and pelvic contents forward and away from the pelvic outlet (where the vagina is) at the back.

My intention is not to scare, but to educate you about the post-hysterectomy condition. I have no way of knowing what might be going on, but if you are hearing gurgling and sensing movement in the bulge, it may be that your vault has come down to the vaginal opening. This can be addressed with sacrocolopexy, where they tether the top of the vagina to the sacrum. I cannot know if this will be needed in your case. I do know that vault prolapse is so common post-hyst that for years they have been doing prophylactic sacrocolpopexy at the time of the hysterectomy. It may be that this operation will make you feel more comfortable and secure. There are no guarantees of its long-term success however, and it is major abdominal surgery. We are very much hoping that the early stages of vault prolapse can be stabilized with this work. Our theory is, the more vaginal length that is left after surgery, the more the pelvis can recreate some semblance of the natural dynamics of pelvic organ support. If the vagina is short, it can't fold down against intraabdominal pressure and therefore would be more prone to early onset vault prolapse.

The truth you have discovered as self-evident is that when the abdominal and pelvic contents are held forward in a forward-bend, you have no prolapse. Our work is keeping them in the rounded lower belly when we stand up. These dynamics are greatly compromised after hysterectomy, but the question remains: If you are consciously working to hold your intestines forward, how much further can they prolapse out the back? Our hope is not enough to require surgery.

Wishing you well,

Christine

I don't believe a bit of extra belly fat affects prolapse at all. If you were holding the wall/fat forward, it might even improve the dynamics of tipping the abdominal contents forward.

Aha! You are a singer. You must really work on the posture when you sing. imagine moving your organs forward into your lower belly with these huge increases in intraabdominal pressure. All singers should be doing this anyway. Check out this blog post if you haven't seen it already: http://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=1145

The organs have not fallen down, they have fallen back from the abdominal wall. Eat and drink sensibly, but understand that the whole game is holding your organs forward and away from the outlet at the back.

I think you should look into the V2 supporter again and snug it up for your morning walks. Cushion your skeleton with good shoes and thick socks. If any WW exercises increase your symptoms, discontinue them. You can do so many in a chair, which I highly recommend. Those little standing exercises like toe-lifts, point/lift/point/close, etc. are so good for your whole body, but you must do them in the posture. It is the lumbar curvature that holds the vagina closed and the organs forward.

Yes, I would locate a gynecologic surgeon at this point. It would be good to build a relationship with someone you trust, but at the same time try to work on your own to stabilize your symptoms.

Cecilly, this is not about the more exercise you do, the better. But understanding how to hold and move your body so the organs are tipped forward. The post-hyst woman may need more support, such as the V2.

Hope and prayers (and please keep us posted!)

Christine

What is that? Would someone please describe one to me. Thanks.

Hi Thriving,
Yes, the V2 supporter which is actually originally used for pregnant women, can also be used for stabilizing severe prolapses when in motion. I wear one on my walks just to keep things from moving around down there, especially, if my cervix decides to really present itself.
Don't use it as a replacement for whole woman practices though. The whole woman work is what really gets those organs moving in the right direction into the lower belly where they belong.
The V 2 is good for an extra little support to help along the way.

I'll sure give it a try.

How does the V2 actually give support? A few months ago, I checked it out on Amazon and read some comments (I think I recall that it is stretchy).

About 1-1/2 months ago, I came upon the Hideaway garment. I ordered it. It does help with my feeling of being "open" (which has lessened some over time) and when coming across uneven (sunken ground), it helps with the, what can I say, shock. Or tenderness, if I end up having twisted/turned/sorta stumbled.

Interestingly, to me, the Hideaway resembles a miniature uterus. It has bra-like material. But on me, it tends to slide down often .... especially if I bend or sink down to do something. The straps just don't want to stay up on my bottom (which is flat), even when I go for a walk. I've always wanted to switch my abdomen to the back and my butt to the front (well .... until I learned of WW posture). But, the Hideaway feels better ..... safer .... than nothing at this time.

How would the V2 differ? The Fembrace I feel would be too restrictive for me. I have never felt good with any garment that is tight fitting, or holding. In high school everyone wore a little panty girdle ... that was in or cool; but I couldn't, if I tried to wear one, it would give me a stomach ache.

I end up putting pantyhose, Cuddle Duds, or thermal (winter) pants over the Hideaway to try to keep it up higher. Then, it tends to smash into my crotch area. And in the Summer, these layers are hot and I get quite sweaty.

Thank you for the educating topics! And for any reply to my question.

Christine will be showing us how to make our own support garment in her new hysterectomy video.

Can't wait to see what she comes up with!!

I need to issue a reminder that Christine has made her wishes known regarding discussion of various support garments on this forum. Please read:

https://www.wholewoman.com/forum/comment/53254#comment-53254

I didn't realize that some discussions are taboo, Surviving. My apologies, somehow I got the wrong opinion that discussing everything on the forum was OK. And, too, from a few posts up higher on the page .... Christine suggests a support garment .... and that brought up my experience, which I thought it might be helpful to share.

This database is Amazing -- it must be totally gigantic; huge Kudos to Christine and Lanny and the Moderators -- I don't believe I'll ever be able to read all of the topics/posts. It's like the Milky Way in size. With all the reading I've done here, I still missed the conversations in the link you posted above. A person cannot have knowledge of every discussion that has been put up. Especially, us newbies.

I'll share a little more. My hubby and I walk our dogs every day (and if I continue to post, you'll hear more about dogs .... they our a main stay of our lives and bring much joy!) So ... a couple days after my PB Dx, we went to the Park to walk our dogs. I felt so much strangeness, inferiority, being broken, fear, discomfort, panic, betrayal, that before we headed off, I grabbed one of my hubby's white cotton Y shirts and stuffed it between my under pants and my jeans. (Safety for the time being .... my inner organs were all going to fall out, but I will fight it.) Difficult to wear, to say the least, but some what helpful. Struggled keeping it up and in place, but persevered a few days on the walks. Vagina walks - prolapse walks, all racing thru the mind.

Then I tried a wash cloth, folded it up like a menstrual pad. Slip and slide, so put a panty hose over it .... slip and slide and pushed into the crotch. OK, try a wash cloth directly in contact with the skin (didn't want to, thought it'd be harsh), then leotards, then my jeans (all during the heat of Summer). Irritation of the labia and contact dermatitis arrives; flayed out labia.

(hmm, as I type, I'm thinking maybe I could become a stand up comedian and benefit from this horrible new way of living)

So, then I researched about support garments ---

V-2 - close to $80 with S&H (comments that it's difficult to fit; harsh, slides down)
* geez, it's been a heavy expense time...I don't want to have to order and order until I get a fit; don't really like ordering by mail and there is NOTHING available in town)
Fembrace - $120 plus S&H (ditto)
* ditto
Another garment that showed up in my research (not to be mentioned by name) - $40 plus $3 shipping and handling, (if it doesn't fit/work ... not a big loss of money)
* with a person I was able to call and talk to and have emailed back and forth several times
* who was very helpful, kind, and very willing to share helpful info and take time for me.
* asked for my feedback about the garment; gave me no reprimands
It's workable, especially for the cost; still have to layer to try to keep it up

I did read in my INet travels about an elderly woman who has her whole uterus out; stays in, and wears her house coat all day per her granddaughter, is content .... and about women in earlier times, who stuffed a piece of wool cloth in and proceed with life .... and, of course, sponges. About an African laborer, whose uterus is fully out. But, they probably all have a uterus.

I'm still researching ... maybe something is out there that's better for me .... maybe one of those inflatable pessaries discussed on the INet. Something that will work for short time periods so that I can follow the advice given here about having extra support as I walk, do the chores, lifting, helping hubby, working our dogs.

Heavens, I am not promoting any product. I am trying to better my life and see what has worked for others.

Thank you for the link.

And my work continues to get WW posture. It's getting easier. 9 months and so far, no vaginal vault. Struggles with constipation (since a toddler). Treading on.

Hi back in time,
I do understand your struggle, and there have been some women that have had trouble with fitting of the V2, but also others of us who have had success with wearing it on a temporary basis. It is all a matter of works best for you. When I wear it for my walks, I pull up the side straps over my hip bones, and it stays secure worn this way. Some of the other ladies that have worn it the same way have reported their success here also. I wouldn't want to wear it all the time though, because it does stay pretty snuggly up into the crotch.
Some of our ladies have even made their own versions, and Christine, as I have said, is going to be showing us another version.

I do realize you had no way of knowing what Christine had said about that other support garment, and we normally don't exclude discussing the different types, but the advertising that was going on with that particular one was immense and time consuming, as well as very distracting from the Whole Woman message.

I really am looking forward to Christine's post hyst video, because I really think it will help not only you ladies struggling with this, but also those of us that need a better understanding of what you are going through.

You just keep treading on, dear back in time, and many hopes that it can only get better for you too.

Cecilly, I'm thinking about you. Hoping you are around. If you are, can you give an update.

Hugs sent your way.

I just wanted to comment on the walking when wearing jeans. There was a discussion some time ago about suitable clothes for easily keeping the w.woman posture. If I have tightness around my middle I cannot relax into the correct posture and all my symptoms get worse. It might help if u simply release the tightness at the top of your jeans or turn them down so that u can relax your belly and stand tall in the posture. This works for me far better than wearing anything extra for support,especially as u say in the hot weather. I have found jeans for pregnant women which r very comfortable and fine with the right top ,a bit longer than I used to wear. It takes time yo find comfy and acceptable outfits but it is possible and once u feel more confident and stand tall noone will even notice !

Thanks for your help and taking time to share with me!!

The belly thing has been an effort for me. So far, this is how I'm trying to manage: - probably going to be too long --

I don't "suck" it in (working consciously and monitoring for Suck In). But, even then it is tight (especially when I push there to check it .. ha ha). So, when I pull up to lengthen, I have to focus to check & make sure it does not pull in. I would not consider it "relaxed", definitely not soft, but it's not sucked in and it's not pushed out. The belly is still a work in progress (so thank you for your suggestions!) and the breathing needs work. While walking, I am working at remembering to breathe and to breathe thru the belly. But, boy, do I fight to get it right and keep it going!

I feel I do need to keep my jeans (but they are relaxed fit Riders; tho they are not a light weight fabric; but I wear them big ..... or I did before the Holiday Season hit .. eggnog and stuffing and desserts!). I keep the button undone most the time. And when I sit in a chair at home, I pull them and other stuff down off my hips. In the SUV riding as the passenger, I undo the button and zipper and push them a little down and open (hopefully we won't ever be in an accident, or in a security traffic stop!!). I am getting better at, when getting out, being discreet about getting it all back together! At first, clumsy and may have got a few looks. When I drive our compact auto, or ride in it, it's all harder ... the seats tip back, where you sit on it .... higher in front/lower in back where the backrest connects! Still looking for something small to use that can give a bit of back curvature for me.

In the evening I watch TV in a lying down position and everything is pulled down (but undies). Then, a nice lightweight throw to cover.

My front side has always been round style and I have no butt. After getting older, it is "poochy" and muscles. :(

It's Winter here -- so I have on my lower portion....undies, a certain lighter weight support garment, cut short nylons to keep that in place better and topped with Cuddle Duds bottoms (like underwear that goes to your ankles and has light fleece inside and sleeker material on outside). Much layering. Where I live and how I live will never allow a skirt, dress, or lightweight slacks, etc. I can dress lighter in the Summer, but out hiking I usually wear jeans (we've got lots of ticks now, sometimes leeches, mosquitoes, blackberries, stinging nettle, etc., not to mention the occasional dog toe nail scratch -- but no poisonous snakes (na na na-na).

I haven't dared to hike with my jeans loose or pulled down. But, if they came down, the Cuddle Duds would just show (but, I'd hate to hit the dirt because I hogged tied myself).

I think the jeans for pregnant women is a great idea!* And, I will put them on my research/to do list.

Have you tried any pregnancy leotards or nylons?

Thank you sooooo much for sharing the skills you've gained and taking time out to post to me!!!!!! !!!!

-----
The I wanna go back in time old gal
Oregon

I live in jeans and walk miles every day. Love wearing walking boots and gel trainers to help with the posture. I am 66 but very active,spend a lot if time mountain walking and have large dog,45kilos,lol!
I am sure pregnancy tights or leotards would be comfy but I just use the largest size and cut the tops a bit! I like the clothes at Seraphine for Mums to be and they have great jeans ,tights ,tops etc. I have a woven belt with my jeans as this can be adjusted really easily. As u say car seats r a real pain in all directions but sometimes a small back support ,foam or even rolled up fleece blanket can help. Some little exercises taken from the First Aid for Prolapse r really helpful or just bending over and 'jiggling' to move things forward before standingup and walking. Breathing is the thing as u do rightly say. Practice makes perfect and some days r easier than others. I could not believe it the first time I went for hours without even remembering that I had pop. Like u I am so very very grateful for all the help, support and knowledge here on this amazing site. good luck :))

Hi, Everhopeful :)

Thank you so much for sharing!! I need to check for other shoes...thanks. (My men's high rise hiking boots give a lot of shock protection .... but they are lace up and that makes keeping my WW posture hard to do when getting the boots on. Hopefully, that short of time in a compromised position is not too damaging.

I'll google Seraphine for Mums.

I'm looking to getting a V2 because if I happen to be walking and I twist or turn, or my legs get too spread apart ... (even stepping off a bottom step) then I feel tender in the down there area .... tender may not be right word, but it's all I can think of to say, and I can feel like an imaginary cone ... not inside my bulge/or the bulge; and see nothing else hanging out there, thankfully). Hard to explain. And then there is the twist off the foot or stumble over twigs or the surprise dip in the ground, etc. Add in floppy Southern Lips ..... geez.

I have a feeling a lot of the time like I have when I wear a hole in my nylon or sock and my toe slips thru the hole and there it is....a feeling of it getting strangled. That's how my strange feeling is...between the vaginal opening and the pubic bone passage way. Mysteries!

What's your Dog? 45 kilos (I'll have to google and convert that to lbs.)
My heart dog (she'll be 11 this Spring ... us 2 Seniors!) is an Australian Cattle Dog, about 32 lbs; a blue mottled in color.
Our other family Dog is my hubby's Tri-Color Headed White Rough Coated Collie and he's 75 lbs. He's 6.
Love, love Dogs ... they give both of us the meaning for life and bring much amusement and they ARE our reason for getting out and walking/hiking. I've backed off from playing with my gal and doing our training --- but I am working hard to see how I can make it work! And that's why a V2 may help some. I've spent 11 years making/acquiring dog training gear and studying greatly and all of our property is sent up for our dogs. I see it and go thru the fencing every day .... it creates a bit of a sore spot in my Spirit. Whine, whine, whine ... I need a bigger violin. I will say to myself RIGHT NOW, I am lucky and I've been privileged in life .... and I need to remember to appreciate that!

Do you know. Does any others know -- can you wear a V2 under neath jeans? I've read some women saying that it is scratchy and that men's boxer shorts or something like that work better than women's undies.

Thanks so much Everhopeful .... so pleased to meet you!

Now off to walk the Dogs between the rain drops.

I wear mine over my underwear. Can't imagine putting that directly on skin.