So tell me ladies

I feel I've made great progress on the symptoms and am easily living with it with a lot of hope for even more improvement in the future (now that I'm actually working on improving it).

I was diagnosed with a grade 2 cystocele and rectocele 4 years ago. I haven't actively worked much on it until just a couple of months ago. I also had a 2nd child 2 years ago. Time did a lot for me as well as a good Physical Therapist. I no longer have the protrusion on most days, I don't even notice it most of the time, I can walk long distances and pick up my kids without thinking about it. I can wear a tampon (ahh, the simple pleasures!) I can't yet run but have just been trying that out now that I know the posture, and it seems to be a good possibility. I go to spin class and take yoga. This condition has brought me a lot closer to my body and living more naturally, so hopefully a side effect is I'm healthier in other ways. I guess in a way, I consider myself almost "cured" using the definition that if I can do the things I want to do (and used to do) with little of the heavy feeling, even if my body is a little different, then I'm "cured". This may be a bit rambling, hope it's helpful...

Carolyn

Hi Carolyn,

Did you get the prolapse after your first birth and did it improve consistently afterwards? Also, what kind of symptoms did you experience when it was at it worst if any? And, were you a runner before? Sorry for so many questions!

Thank you.

Yes, I got the prolapse about 6 months after the first birth, while on a stroller walk with the baby. All of a sudden, I had a nice size protrusion that I could see when standing up. I felt the heavy feeling all the time and it was very uncomfortable. I saw a Dr who fit me with a pessary, which I started wearing in the day time (but not at night and not with that gel that Christine has written about in her blog). It gave me a lot of the support I needed at the time, so I could feel fairly normal, sling carry my child, etc. But that was the only way I could get through the day without that fearful feeling that something was about to fall out.

Then, (this is about 3.5 years ago)I found a physical therapist in my area who specializes in prolapse. She encouraged me to slowly wean myself off the pessary (and primarily use it in situations where I knew I'd have a long walk, holding a child, etc) so that my body could become stronger. She also gave me some exercises, many of which have turned out to be similar to some of Christines. I did these sporadically, as you all know, it's hard to get the time with little ones. But even so, as time went on, things slowly raised up. Seems like after about a year or so, I wasn't wearing the pessary any more, mainly because I'd forget about it, because my symptoms were a lot better.

The second birth (2 years ago) didn't seem to bring them back down again (maybe a little), I rested a while then saw the PT again and once again did the sporadic exercises.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago when I finally found this site, and I've added much more sitting on the floor cross-legged, a pillow in my car, and am trying to be better at the exercises and learned the posture from this site. I was a casual runner (i.e. only 1/2 hour type "jogs") and (advanced beginner) doubles beach volleyball player before and my ultimate goal is to be doing those two things again. I feel very positive that I'll do it by the end of this year. Sorry again for the long reply to a short question!

personally, patty?

i hold that things can really not only improved sypmtomatically, but there can also be healing. i really do.

in my head, i see how this is, yes, a structural issue. and i am addressing that right off with the specific work christine is sharing with us. my diet has radically shifted so that constipation isn't a problem now and, in fact, bowel movements pass with virtually no effort on my part. i am also seeing a pt and i seem to be in the minority of women here who am finding it very helpful. my pt specializes on pelvic floor work and seems very very open to all sorts of alternative things. she also seems to know what she's doing -- which many don't. i mean, besides the structural issue, there is also the issue of tissue and muscle and fascia. and, though "science" may want to tell me otherwise, in my head, it would only make perfect sense that things might regenerate, heal. so i am taking herbs, using acupuncture and checking out a homeopath this week. yes, i know, it's alot. but it took a lot for me to get here (i'm 43) and i am fine with it taking a lot to help this. and, as it's the only body i get, i'm willing to work and focus with this to make it a priority. much easier for me than many women here as i don't have tinsy kids anymore, though, i will say -- my daughter is 7.

but i will also tell you that when i was initially diagnosed -- though i'm not convinced this whole "grading" thing is really useful, it is a tool that does have it's uses -- i was graded with a 1.5 rectocele. after two months of this work, it's now a 1. so you tell me, does this work help with the symptoms or help to actually heal it? (i will add, though, that even before she shifted that"grade", i knew how much better i felt, and so THAT was the ultimate thing i cared about. -- back on my huge mile and mile walks, not feeling any weird walnut feeling in my vagina -- incredible! -- oh, and let me also just say that doesn't mean i haven't had days where i did -- had a lecture in school two weeks ago that lasted three hours on weird seats. things just felt sort of sore for a few days. really didn't worry it, though, and now things are fine.)

i think our minds are very very powerful tools of healing. i truly believe that.

xxsusan

Hi Patty

As you have no doubt gathered, managing prolapse non-surgically is just that. Management. Prolapse is caused by injury to the structures within the body that keep our pelvic organs high and stable where they should be (fascia, ligaments, muscles).

Muscles can heal themselves but sometimes don't. Often the damage is done during difficult births, sometimes through failed episiotomies, sometimes hurrying the labour for whatever reason, sometimes a tear left to heal by itself that does not heal properly.

Ligaments have only a secondary role in holding pelvic organs up high, as they have to be mobile enough to work right through a pregnancy (Wow!) then return to their normal position, more or less unstretched. However the removal of ligaments, particularly through hysterectomy can have disastrous results because their secondary role is compromised. Check out the new edition of Christine's book, Saving the Wholewoman, for a better explanation of this. I hope this is the case as mine has not yet arrived!

Fascia, however, can be easily damaged by straining to pass bowel motions, difficult births, abdominal surgery, etc but are apparently not easy to repair properly with surgery (and may become tangled up in post-surgery scar tissue which compromises their mobility and stability), or the importance of repairing them properly has not been recognised. Not sure which is correct. Damage to fascia is the hard one. Maybe they can heal themselves. Like you, I give them the best chance I can and hope for the best.

So, no as far as we know you cannot cure prolapse, no matter what you do (not even surgery). However, if the symptoms can be lessened by attention to diet, carrying the body differently etc, to the point where they are not noticeable 95% of the time, then you are in practice healed. Prolapse symptoms seem to come and go at different times of the month, or after a lot of standing or heavy work, so even if you are a 95 percenter, there may be a few days every now and then when you feel like it is all coming back. I am there at the moment, trying to figure out what I have done, and not do it again.

As shown by the other posters to this thread, your attitude to doing what you can to minimise symptoms will largely determine how good you feel about your body and how well you can deal with your prolapses.

Hope that answers your initial question.

Cheers

Louise

Thanks Carolyn,

I appreciate you answer. It is so interesting to hear of others experiences with all of this and helps us all so much.

Hi Susan,

I really enjoyed your message. We are the same age (43) and following many of the same treatments - PT, homeopathy, etc. My PT is also great, specializes in pelvic floor, very open to learning, seems to have helped me, even just borrowed my 1st edition copy of Christine's book.

I'm also using homeopathy (I've taken some courses in it and my teacher, an awesome homeopath and daughter of a midwife) recommended Sepia and Cel Salts to me. I'm trying a 3 week course to see what happens. Could you let me know what is recommended for you by your homeopath (although what each of our bodies needs may be different, it would be interesting to know). Also, I'd like to know if the herbs and accupuncture work well for you as I haven't tried that.

As I'm writing, I'm just thinking about the fact that I am trying a bunch of things at once right now - just learned the posture, the homeopathic remedies, some physical therapy, some breathing, more sitting cross legged, etc, so I won't really know which is helping..., but hopefully I'll be able to say that something did!

Carolyn
Southern California

hey carolyn:

i just went to the homeopath yesterday. the initial intake was 3 hours long! yikes! but it was great. she ended up starting me on lachesis 6c., one pellet once a day. i will tell you, though, that the person who referred me to this homeopath a few weeks ago, when he and i were initially talking, suggested i take sepia as well. and i did. and i gotta tell you, i felt a difference with it the very next day. it seemed crazy to me -- and homeopathy is a serious mystery to me -- but that's the truth of it. i remember the day i took it, i definitely was feeling the rectocele bulge and it was shocking to me in how the feeling shifted so quicking. (and i am of the school that if i don't feel it and it's not getting in my way at all, i don't have it!) quite amazing, though! but i just started the lachesis this afternoon (she wanted me to take the pellet after 3 -- you know how specific the remedies can be and all.) she thought this work from christine's site was great -- very encouraging with it all.

as to the herbs and acupuncture -- i have always LOVED acupuncture. really have. however, i'm not clear at the moment where it is in usefulness. i think i'm going to take a bit of a break with it and focus on the homeopathy and other infusions i take every day (red raspberry, nettle, and hawthorn berry) and, of course, the posture and diet stuff. i tend to want to throw a zillion things at stuff -- this, being no exception -- and then, as you said, it's hard to figure out what's really useful and what's not. AND, i don't know, sometimes that gets really exhausting, you know? i mean, it's all positive work, supportive stuff, but if it doesn't leave much time for a LIFE, then it seems to defeat the purpose a bit. i'm grappling with that specific thing right now.

anyways, curious to know if you feel the sepia helps you. i'd be very interested in hearing, so do keep us updated.

xxsusan

hi carolyn. i see from your post that you are in southern california. so am i. i have generally thought of those here who have access to phys. therapy as being from countries where healthcare is a bit more progressive! did your dr. prescribe p.t. or did you pursue it?

thanks & take care,
mary ann

Hi Mary Ann,

When I saw a Dr about my prolapse, I was still planning to have another child, so the Dr's recommendation was physical therapy at that time (and surgery after the 2nd child - thank goodness I found this site in the meantime because I don't feel I'll ever need or want surgery). Then I pursued it both before and after my 2nd child. That was a few years ago. At this point, my insurance doesn't cover it, but it's around $85 for an hour visit and I find it well worth it (I just go once every couple of months).

Carolyn