Full of questions this morning

I have ie back passage aching, burning, lower back pain? I wonder can anyone tell us what this is I to have been told that the bulge is not a rectocele and quite normal
Anne

Hi Anne and Frankie

Well, it sounds darned like rectocele to me for both of you. Welcome to the world of reality. LOL

Sorry about that little laugh! Your two stories simply illustrate for me that 'celes are not the same thing to a doctor as they are for the woman who lives them.

For the doctor, as far as I can gather, 'celes are things found in the vagina by a doctor when you go and get examined. They are lumps of other organs, of different consistencies, that stick out into the vagina when they shouldn't, and which can poked back in or removed by surgical means.

On the other hand, for the woman who lives them, 'celes are a name that is given to a thing happening in your pelvic area that causes lots of different symptoms and sensations when the bladder, uterus and rectum push into the vagina and slip towards the vaginal opening, giving us the sensation that an organ is trying to get outside of our body instead of remaining inside. This had frightening implications if we do not understand how this part of the body works.

Sometimes they cause symptoms, and sometimes they don't, and we certainly don't go to doctors and ask if we have them, unless there are some vaginal, rectal or bladder symptoms annoying us. Many of us carry quite big prolapses without even realising we have them. They don't cause damage in themselves. The bladder, uterus and rectum are rarely damaged themselves. The only thing that is damaged, or not working properly is the fascial supports that keep them in optimum positions in relation to each other during our daily activities, and sometimes part of the pelvic floor muscles, particularly if there has been a big tear or episiotomy that has not healed properly and has left a larger than normal vaginal opening.

The symptoms we experience are urinary incontinence, either stress or urgency, or incomplete emptying of the bladder; lack of ability to empty the bowels when our body tells us we need to; something either close to or poking out of the vaginal opening, accompanied by a feeling of fullness or rubbing; cervix peaking at the vaginal opening; bulging of the vulva and sometimes friction problems with tissues that are normally inside the vagina drying out and rubbing against each other or knickers; various odd things happening as part of the menstrual cycle; pain with sex; pain and discomfort in various places which doesn't seem to be directly coming from the source of a problem (I can only think of this as referred pain); and repeated secondary infections such as UTI's and thrush which are often caused by irritated tissue and/or contamination from faeces. There are probably others as well, and just to confuse things, many of these symptoms can easily be caused by other unrelated conditions.

IMHO, prolapse of bladder, rectum and uterus usually go together, simply because the fascial supports are all related and interconnected, so if you have one you will probably have the others eventually but they may be assymptomatic. Because the pelvic structures are originally balanced, when one organ shifts it will place strain on the supports of the others as well, so further damage can easily happen. This is why it is important to adopt Wholewoman posture, look after your diet, and clothe your belly loosely, to allow your body to use its injured pelvic fascial supports the best way it can, without fighting a chronically full bowel, tight clothing that prevents the belly's feminine function and fighting gravity's downward forces. Do these things when you first realise that your pelvic contents are in different spots from where they used to be.

In everyday life, you don't carry a box filled with tomatoes on its side! If a garden hose kinks and the water stops coming out, you don't turn the tap on harder - you straighten the hose out! If the drain keeps blocking you unblock it and think carefully before pouring anything dense down the drain in future! If there is a cubby built across you driveway you get your kids to move it because it is restricting movement in and out of your garage/carport. These things are all about optimising flow and minimising restriction. It is also thus with POP.

The end of this rave is that, IMHO, symptoms will tell you that there is something not right, and *you* can tell if you have prolapses by reading Saving the Wholewoman, looking at some pictures to familiarise yourself with normal anatomy, grabbing a mirror and having a look in different positions. You can also use your fingers or get your partner to check what is happening in different positions. IMHO, You can actually do a better job than your doctor at this, as evidenced by so many women who post that they know they have a prolapse but the doctor doesn't pick it up, or they have different diagnoses from different doctors. You live with your body 24/7 and you can examine it in every position you use in everyday life. Your doctor cannot do this.

*It is not rocket science!!!* You have the power in our own hands to do this.

NB I am not saying "Don't go to the doctor to get your symptoms checked out." There are thousands of things that can cause similar symptoms, and some of them are not nice, and need to be dealt with. When you have prolapses and prolapse symptoms you can also have serious medical conditions which are producing the same symptoms, and you can easily, and inappropriately, dismiss them as 'just my prolapse'. The aim of this doctor's visit is to eliminate the possibility of your symptoms being anything more serious than prolapse, not to confirm what you already know (ie that you have prolapsed pelvic organs). If they have a feel inside with you lying on your back and say, "Yep, prolapse." and don't investigate your symptoms more thoroughly, you are visiting the wrong doctor and have just wasted your money.

Frankie, I think you will know if you overdo the exercise, or haven't been mindful or posture during the day. Hey, little kids can be very demanding, specially when you are having fun with them. If your vaginal pain is to do with rubbing, try going without knickers for a while and see if it makes a difference. This is why I prefer skirts over trousers these days, no rubbing in the crutch. Try some Wholewoman Vulva Balm, or use Wholewoman Bliss Balm as everyday lubrication and see if it makes a difference. Be your own researcher for your own body. The wrinkly skin is called rugae and it is what the vaginal walls look like. It is probably why men enjoy penetrative sex! When your bladder drops back into the vaginal opening, the bottom part of your vagina becomes more horizontal. I can't feel the pillow thing either. Re hard matter, it is hard to tell. That was doctorspeak. If the hard matter is in a straight line I wouldn't think it would be rectocele. It is the kink or bend that was the giveaway for me, but is is probably different at different times. Mine is hardly detectable at all these days. Does this mean I don't have a rectocele all the time?? Probably yes, but I still have damaged fasciae which will let the rectocele bulge sometimes. Back passage aching and burning burning, not sure - haven't experienced it but we are all different. Sitbone pain, yes I do get that sometimes. I think it is where a lot of muscles are joined to the bones. Overstretched hammies? Lower back pain, yes, I think that might be to do with organs pressing on spine (similar to posterior presentation during pregnancy and labour?). I get it before menstruation. Re 'celes being assymptomatic, I think the symptoms come and go all the time.

Frankie, I am so glad you are feeling good. It feels stupid to me sometimes when I have to go back to basics and ask a simple question again after years of doing this. But I ask the question again with the experiences I have had since I asked it the first time, (or didn't!) so I am often looking for slightly different answers, if that makes any sense.

Just for the record I have just spent 2 days at a music festival, long periods standing in queues, or sitting on stacking chairs designed by Satan himself, lots of dancing, lots of walking, and camping in a two man tent, sleeping on a narrow air mattress, while I had a very heavy period, and with 4 hours drive there and 4 hours back. Did I survive it? You betcha I did!! It was fan-****ing-tastic! Sore feet, sore ankles, sore hips, sore legs, but my prolapses haven't even blinked. Thankyou Wholewoman!!!

Sorry this has been so long.

Cheers

Louise

but....I have a rectocele- and there is no mistaking it- I don't think that if you can feel hard matter then you have a rectocele. I can't imagine not being able to feel it- those areas are so close to eachother. I can feel hard matter in my abdomin sometimes- then it moves and eventually comes out LOL. The coolest thing about my rectocele is when my colon in rectum are full -the rectocele straightens right out- it is gone- then after I go- it comes right back-
I don't know- just some thoughts
as to the pain- low back pain says uterus to me- or possibly kidney- my rectocele made my tailbone hurt-
and the exercise-as long as you can balance a good work out will good rest- you will be fine- but if you go and go and go -days in a row - you body will let you know in no uncertain terms to take a break.

Hi Alemama

No, I don't think you are in denial at all. One of the points I was making in my l-o-n-g post was that almost every woman has a unique set of observations and symptoms, some of which may be directly associated with prolapse, some indirectly associated, and some related to something else entirely. eg Aren't *we* different? I can feel the stool in my kinked rectum with my thumb when I am splinting to empty it. When I have passed stool I can still feel the rectum but no hard matter is left in it. Also, each of us is in a much better position to know what is happening in our vaginas (because we live 24/7 with them) than a doctor who examines us once and pronounces the verdict as if it is the final word.

The "hard matter" comment from the doctor, I think may have been her working out what she could feel and identifying different bodies in the pelvic cavity by their texture. If you have ever done an internal examination on an animal you will know what I mean. Horror! No, I am not into really kinky sex. I have just done some veterinary procedures on sheep and cattle under the guidance of a vet.

Cheers

Louise

I am feeling better- I am so glad- it seems like when it is bad you never think it will get better fast enough- and when I feel good I imagine that I will just keep feeling good- how silly.
but my rectocele is not as high as it was say- 2 weeks ago- ugh.

The lack of images anywhere to help us visualize exactly what is going on inside our pelvises is really frustrating. Images of cystocele, rectocele, prolapsed uterus, and the rest, always show just the one, as if they always come singularly. But when you have three or four of them at once, where are the pictures showing what YOU look like inside? Nowhere to be found. Your cystocele does not look like the one in the image because your rectocele pushes it partway back, for example. Besides, we are all different, and will be arranged differently depending on the degree of prolapse of each; depending on whether we have stool in the rectum; the posture we are holding, etc. For me, the cystocele is the biggest, and protrudes outside the body slightly; it is met by the rectocele just inside, and the both together seem to block the cervix from further descent, but the uterus seems "behind and under" the bladder, as opposed to on top of it in normal women.