Dumb question about restoceles

Hi Patty,

I didn't understand what a rectocele was either. Apparently mine was small and didn't give me symptoms. I did have a surgery to suspend my uterus (long story) and it worsened the rectocele. Now I have to splint (support the back wall of the vagina) most times when having a bowel movement. Yes, it's scary, humiliating and depressing. Probably, the bulge will only be obvious when it fills with stool. This may not happen every time. Sometimes it depends on the consistency of the stool. Sorry to be so graphic but that's been my experience. Hope that helps.
Susan

hey patty:

okay. first of all, this is not a dumb question! and, boy, do i get how scared and freaked out you feel. i'm sure virtually every woman who is on this site gets that -- I sure do as i've been there and still have waves of being there.

now, here's the thing. you most certainly could have a mild rectocele. i think there was a thread recently about various prolapses and where is yours and all this other stuff...the upshot of the thread was to not worry about the "grading" or doctor pronouncement of what your prolapse may be but to go by how it feels. i am pretty sure that with this work, you will get back to the point where you don't feel it any more.

here's the thing about rectoceles -- diet seems to play a very big role in their feeling better. i have first hand experience of this. making sure you have a high quality diet with stools that pass easily -- and, i'm sure you already know this but, of course, no straining on the toilet -- makes a huge difference with the rectocele symptoms.

i am also finding the firebreathing the christine explains in her new edition of the book EXTREMELY beneficial - along with utilizing the postural work as well. i have yet to regularly integrate her new exercise program into my life -- i need to figure out how to prioritize that as i suspect that, too, will help a lot -- but there has been feedback here from woman who are doing it that it's quite helpful.

patty, i know you're freaked out. so been there - so can STILL be there. i had a very strong initial response to this work, then had a big constipation issue which led me to major diet changes and a nice run when i was virtually asymptomatic. then took a fat fall on my ass on the ice while experiencing lots of stress and things felt worse again. back on the upswing now when i see for myself how much the emotional is so connected with the increase in symptoms. and i also see how people do say symptoms can really wax and wane with this and so that makes the days when i feel more symptomatic less scary for me. i just take it easier, eat well, and trust that this will feel better in a day or two.

i honestly believe i will be able to keep this stabilized for the rest of my life. i just do. and as is i'm 43, i plan on there being a WHOLE lot longer for me to be right on this one! :-) and i do also think sheer time is so useful with this. you will get through this panic. you will. you will start to get calmer and feel better. i know loads of other women will be jumping in here, too. and i'm pretty certain your symptoms will start to feel better with keeping your diet healthy and lively, maybe doing the firebreathing, and just moving through a number of days when your focus can shift away from the recotocele as you note it being stabile. (i know when i was first diagnosed, i was petrified that everything would just FALL OUT as i got out of bed one morning. not what i think now.)

breathe. it's going to be okay. really and truly.

hugs to you, patty.

xxsusan

nodding my head to everything in the previous posts.

and a question for susan (howdidthishappen).... did you find the firebreathing helped the rectocele? I was not doing it long enough to find out. I did see improvement in the cystocele and then got pg so stopped the FB.

okay, first, granolamom...yeah, i've got to say, i do think the firebreathing is helping the rectocele. i just stuck my finger up there not an hour ago (I KNOW! TOO MUCH FREAKING INFO!) and, wow! barely a bulge! wild! AND i'm pre-menstrual here, so i would think it would be MORE prominant right now. pretty damn sure that's the fire breathing doing some serious work. (LOVE YOU, CHRISTINE!)

okay, patty, as to the sex thing... you know, when i was first diagnosed, i didn't have any sex because i had NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER. then i started reading here about how sex and orgasms, in fact, made woman feel like things were actually tighter in terms of the prolapse and, well, that's all i needed to read -- no one mentioned having a bowel movement in the middle of sex so i figured i'd jump in and give it a try. and, in fact, the rumors were TRUE! things did, indeed, feel tighter and higher after sex and orgasm. the thing is, though, it is about making sure you really want to do it, you know? maybe you're just not at a place where you're ready for it right now, and i think that's perfectly cool. and, i must mention, you can always come about an orgasm by yourself and see for yourself how things feel. (i'm figuring we're a candid bunch here so i hope no one is offended by my frankness!) i think this whole diagnosis feels so new that the notion of sex is terrifying -- yes! got it! been there! give yourself some time just to let things stabilize not ONLY for the prolapses but for the psychological/emotional shift which may almost be the bigger piece of this here. i am still coming to terms with it, that's for sure. and it's not like i don't think it's a big deal or anything...but, at this moment in time, my rectocele and cystocele AREN'T that big of a deal to me. i'm not thinking about it 24/7 like i was initially.

as i said in my earlier post, i promise, you will be okay. you just need some time with all this -- honestly, the sheer power of time helps normalize things so so much. i know you don't really believe me right now, so you're just going to have to trust me on this one, okay?

love to you, patty.

susan

really, patty:

i do know just how that sort of despair feels. again, most especially at the start when the diagnosis is so new and you just can't imagine what the future will hold, it is both depressing and terrifying. it took up all my psychic space in my head, it was all i could think about at first. and, like you, no one i knew in real life had experienced this -- or so i thought (still dont know for sure but i highly doubt i am the ONLY person in my circle dealing with this!) and, again, i have days when i'm more bummed out than others -- days when i might feel the bulge more and i think back on how extremely ACTIVE i was a year ago -- it's almost spring here on the east coast and i love to walk and would go for miles and miles and miles. today, it's not that i wouldn't do that necessarily, but i would THINK about it more whereas a year ago, no thought involved - off i'd go. do i feel sorrowful and sad sometimes about that sort of thing? the truth is, yes, i do. but then, as i spoke about on a thread recently, i do have to come to terms with what is now the new normal for me. and is there really any SIGNIFICANT ways that my quality of life has been affected by this? i would have to say no to that one. i am still totally myself, i look totally like myself -- this is a structural issue on the inside of my body that, yes, does affect how i feel about myself but it hasn't touched the intrinsic nature of me at all -- does that make any sense? and though there are days that i seem to choose to let myself stew in it more and think about it more (obssess might be a better word) i also note that i do better on days when i just pull my posture up as best i can and just get on with it. but, again, that's not what it looks like every day. read a thread i started just a few weeks ago when i was feeling really sad about this, discouraged and scared as well.

it's okay not to feel optimistic today. it's okay if you feel that way tomorrow, too. i know i was initially just diagnosed with the rectocele and the cystocele soon followed, even having started with this work. christine has talked about this sort of thing and i can only very clumsily recount that, basically, i believe she makes the point that when the prolapses start, things might seem to be shifting more and those are just the natural direction things were going to be going in anyways. it will stabilize. this work will help you do that.

i would also again suggest, though, to try and tend to your diet. that is really helpful with the recotcele, to keep it stabilized. and are you getting enough rest? not getting enough sleep makes every thing wonky -- including your ability to simply be resilient to deal with the emotional piece. i know things get really distorted for me when i'm tired -- and the prolapse stuff also feels worse.

let us know how you're doing.

xxx
susan

Hi Patty,

Now here's something to think about relation to sex and the rectocele, though as Susan says, you need to get to a place where you are ready, and only you can decide when that might be.

Splinting returns the rectum to its former "Straight" shape, pre rectocele as it were, and thus the BM passes.

If sex does the very same thing, and causes one to have a BM, then surely everyone with a straight rectum without a rectocele would be having a BM during sex. Are they? No!!!!!!! To have a BM, one needs to have an urge to go, concentrate, and then relax and go, rectocele or not. I truly, truly, truly doubt that this will happen to you with a rectocele, honest!!

Don't know if that reassures you, but I hope it does a little! :)

My rectocele only flared up after I started doing the postural work. But I have already suspected it before, so it was not a total surprise.

And in a way it makes sense to have both celes on the sides of the vagina: I cannot imagine one side being all drooping when the other is healthy and perfect.

My prolapses started 4 months ago, 1 month after the birth of my baby girl. I am still quite emotionally unstable but I can tell you that last week I had 5 good days out of 7 and there were even a few hours when I did not think about prolapse.

And about sex: tonight just when I felt like having a bm my dh made clear that he wanted to make love. First i thought 'no way' - I have previously never tried when i had that pressure back there. But then things started anyway and I completely forgot about bms and pressures. And all was perfectly fine.
I am not sure that my prolapses are better after having sex but boy I do care less about them...

Please hang in there, it WILL GET BETTER!

Love,
Reka xxx

Here’s how I visualize what’s happening with new onset rectocele after initiating the posture. For most of our lives we’ve been sitting flat on our vaginas. Worse, we’ve been increasing pressure along this same axis several times a day while on the toilet. This has caused a scrunching down and stretching out of the pelvic interior – sort of like sitting on a top hat. For many of us, the bladder and uterus fill in the distorted space first – not unlike a plug.

When we begin to hold our weight over our pubic bone, the front wall is pulled forward toward its natural position. The “plug” is therefore lifted out to some extent and the back vaginal wall and rectum move in to fill the void, since they have been pushing that way and thinning the fascia all along.

Nothing to be done but keep working to improve the stretch in the opposite direction. This may take months or years of conscious effort before results are seen. It is possible some percentage of women will require surgery and that is why it is also important to stay in close touch with your doctor while you are trying this alternative approach.

Dear Christine,

I know how busy you are but I would so appreciate clarification of your comment-

"It is possible some percentage of women will require surgery"

Are you REALLY saying that in some cases surgery would be preferable to our work here? Do you mean in extreme cases of intractable symptoms? What might be indications for such?

I hope you don't mind me asking these questions, you know me, always wondering!

Thank you! :) x

Just that some women will want-need-insist upon being fixed and will resent anything less. We don’t know who those women will be…that’s why it’s important to remain as neutral as possible. :-) Btw, your description of rectocele during sex was right on.

I know, honey, I do! I felt the same way when I found the rectocele. It was a short while after I found this site and started implementing the posture and some exercises for cystocele and whammo......there's a new bulge. I wanted to throw in the towel and hide under my blanket for the rest of my life.

I PROMISE you, it gets better. I mean, I can't make promises about the bulges, but the attitude shift is enormous. there is a NORMAL grieving process that you will go through to get to the other side. we've all been through it and come out ok.

and for what its worth, I've never had a bowel movement during sex.

hey patty, I feel normal. not halfway normal. and not only on the 'good days when I don't think about it'.
it takes time, it takes work - learning more about the nature of prolapse, learning to accept, etc, but its possible.
I don't always feel like I'm 20 again with a "new-with-tags" vagina, but I've come to realize that yep, this is part of aging. some people get gray hairs earlier than others, some sag badly in the neck. EVERYONE's got something on their plate, and this is what I got..a prolapse. ok, so I deal with it the best I can. somedays I get down about it, but that's ok too. its normal. my body is still normal. I'm normal.

Its hard because our genitals are so tied up with our sense of who we are sexually, and that's a pandora's box to begin with. and its not easy to find others going through the same thing or even just someone to listen, because its so so private. especially the sex part of it.

I totally agree with christines description of the cystocele's improving making way for the rectocele. in fact, my post way back when I found my rectocele was pretty much to that effect. I felt that now that the cystocele has vacated the space, the rectocele moved right in. It was inevitable, I believe, and just waiting to happen.

don't give up hope just yet. 2 weeks is a very short time when you consider how many years this took to develop.

My comments were really meant in a general sort of way, Patty. We’re all about encouragement here…but need to be careful not to “practice medicine” if you know what I mean. Hugs!!

well everyone has already given you such good information. I just wanted to chime in and say it really does get better-
and then worse and then better -
it comes and goes in cycles. Right when you think you have it all figured out and you are ready to accept that the world isn't ending after all......something new comes up- for me it was the cystocele appearing right when the rectocele was improving.
But I feel good again- really good. Like - so what- I have prolapses- and.......
Just know that you will feel good- and I mean physically as well as emotionally. Give yourself time to feel how you feel right now- you are allowed to be bummed- take your time. And then get to work-

Can only speak for myself here but it took about 18 months for the actual sensation I had in my vagina (slight bulginess feeling) to go away. I would say I have no sensation now for about 90% of the time - I have to be very careful about bm though because any straining there can bring the feeling back again. So on the whole Patty, I am very happy with the non-surgical methods I have tried to alleviate the symptoms, that is, with time, it has all conspired to improve my condition. Hope this helps - the methods I use include, moderate exercise (walking in my case), no straining on the loo (I take metamucil once a day and that works for me, but not for everyone I gather), a few kegels (10 contractions for 10 counts, then release for 10 counts, four times a day, although many of us here do less than that or none at all), and a good chair (I work at home at the computer for a few hours every day - I have found other chairs not good for posture). I hope this helps, I am the sort of person that like routine so what I have described suits me, but you will find your own way with the help of the wonderful people here.
Cheers, Wendy

Hey Wendy,

I think I remember that you were playing tennis a while back. Are you still or are you pretty much sticking to walking now?

Thank you! :)

I was playing badminton, yes, and it was good but not for my prolapse at that stage. Also the exercise late in the evenings was not helping me sleep cos it was soon after my split with my ex and I was having trouble sleeping. I might go back to it though as my sleep (and my prolapse) have stabilised and I did enjoy it - it was a nice group of people.
It's been about a year since I played but yes I have been sticking to the walking pretty much every day for the last 18 months.
Do you find walking helps? I find after a few minutes of walking that my pelvic floor feels very good.
Cheers,
Wendy

Thanks Wendy!

Oh yes, I think walking definitely helps, and most certainly does no harm. I am happy that I can do this as much as I do and feel that it is therapeutic in some way. I also run around after kids etc and have no issues.

I am always interested to hear from "sporty prolapsers" so thank you again! xx

for me, I'd say it was about a year until I could go regularly go about my day without noticing any prolapses. not to say I haven't had setbacks, but each time I have a setback I'm a bit more relaxed about it as I know that it isn't permanent.

you know, had someone told me it would take a year when I first noticed the 'celes, it would have seemed like a lifetime. but looking back, it wasn't so long. and it was time well spent learning more about my body, growing emotionally and spiritually as well.

you can make it that long because you have to. a year will pass regardless of what choices you make. but you sound determined to avoid surgery, so as far as I know, this work is all you've got. take it one day at a time and I bet a year from now you won't believe how far you've come.

sorry patty, I lose track of which posts were answered and which were not, we all go off on tangents here!

so back to rectoceles...I forget, do you have Christine's book yet? that really explains things far better than I can, especially with all the diagrams. but if you don't have it I can try to explain, but what specifically are your questions?

I see the next thread, will respond there

and I'm not really sure, I've never had to do the splinting thing.
but for what its worth....I'm not only thinking along the lines of strengthening the vaginal wall to resist pressure from bowels. I'm also hoping that by incorporating the posture, the breathing, and the other exercises here my body will go back to its original shape. once all the pelvic organs are lined up the way they should be, the pressure on the vagina should decrease somewhat, and the bowels themselves should do their job better rather than lean on the vagina anyway. I can see a difference in that regard when I eat 'light' meaning no meat and lots of raw veggies.

there's no real shortcuts as far as I know. you just gotta jump right in and start trying new things and paying attention to see what works, what makes you feel good, what makes sense to you. that's what I love about everyone here, everyone's so open about their experiences and I get alot of feedback and ideas.

I don't remember if you mentioned or not, but have you read Christine's book yet? her description of the evolution of a prolapse is far better than I can give. especially since she's got all these fantastic illustrations. I think its really important to understand the anatomy of a prolapse to understand how you can manage/reduce/prevent it.

but keep in mind that its not only about strengthening the vagina to hold everything in. thats not the function of the vagina, it was not designed to do that job which is probably why it doesn't do it well. the posture helps position organs over bone, instead of over a hole and ensures that the forces that go through your body (breathing) secure them there.

also, your insides are not, or should not be, sloshing around, held up by the lowest organ. they should be suspended from above as well (by fascia, muscles, pressures and forces from breathing). so it is along those lines that I have hope for rectocele. it is possible that your bowels are stretched out and lazy. I imagine I am suspending everything - intestines included - from the top of my head. a good wholesome diet helps keep my bowels light and active so they are doing some of the work of supporting themselves. in this way, I hope, they rely less on the vaginal wall.

you're not dumb.....you're learning. It took me a long time to get a good sense of what was going on, and I'm a physical therapist so you'd think I'd already know alot of this.

take it one step at a time. keep reading and rereading the book and slowly more and more will begin to make sense to you.
I really do believe all this hard work will pay off, but if you want to be completely realistic, its quite possible that you will always have some degree of prolapse. your symptoms very well may subside but there are no guarantees that this work will reverse a prolapse completely. not that it matters much, whats important is that you get to a point where you are living well with the prolapse and that it is not getting any worse. and I believe that can happen.

it took me a long time. but you have time, so take a deep breath and try to relax some. it will be ok.