we had our baby this morning

Let's face it. CS is major abdominal surgery. Why would a woman elect to have major abdominal surgery, when vaginal birth is the way the Creator designed us? Because it is sold to them (by doctors) as routine surgery, that's why!

L

The Polish Health Minister (who is a woman) put it this way: "If women were meant to deliver their children through c-section, they would have a zip in their lower belly" (the discussion was about how many Polish woman choose to have c-sections only due to the fact that the epidural is not free of charge, unlike in other European countries).

lots of times after a c/section we hear, well the cord was wrapped around the neck/leg/arm so thank god we did a c/s
many many babies are born vaginally with cords wrapped this way and that way, success is of course probably linked to skilled health care practitioner and active laboring mama. I'm not even convinced that a sudden drop in HR, alone, indicates a c/s either, but that's another story.
not saying your dd didn't need a c/s but that this is becoming a very familiar story to me, I'm hearing this from so many of my friends who end up with 'emergency c's' due to a 'sudden drop in HR' and its almost always followed up with 'and thank god we did, the cord was wrapped..'
I think this birth management trend is led by cultural changes, rather than nature. but that is just my suspicion, haven't done any research on it.

and speaking of research, the statistics clearly point to c/s as being less beneficial/more dangerous for the baby than vaginal delivery. I'm happy your grandbaby's are fine, but that doesn't change the statistical findings.

I totally agree with you G-mom. They are waaay too fast to do C-sections today. Yet, when it's happening what is a woman to do? Here the doctor is telling them that their, or their baby's lives, maybe both, are in jeopardy. Not easy to say don't do one, I'm sure.

My dd is so concerned about them unnecessarily doing a C-section (she's let her doctor know she really doesn't want to have to have one), that she has a plan, 4-1-1..four contractions in one hour, lasting one minute each, before she heads over to the hospital. She's doing that because she has heard that they are more likely to do a C-section if you've been there a looong time! How scary is that???

My youngest sister, my mother's third child was born at home (as I was) and she had the cord wrapped around her neck. The doctor who delivered her (yes, a house call...shows you how old I am!) took care of it and that was that.

That being said though, I am glad my dd will be in a hospital. If there's an emergency we'll all be glad she's there. We are not quite as brave as my dear mother was. Actually, my mother was scared to death of hospitals (smart woman)..that's why she home birthed her second (me!) and third child.

BTW, dd found a pediatrician will work with her on a schedule about when to and what shots to give. Believe it or not, he's from the "old school"... unusual to find them thinking that way, I think. He said he sees no problem with giving them early, but he understands and respects her concerns. As it turns out, he is in the office where I took my children. He actually saw dd a couple of times back in the 70's, but he wasn't our regular doctor. She's thrilled that he was so cooperative. Others were not..and she met with young and older doctors. Go figure!

Interesting discussions...thanks for all the input!

~Mae

Mae,
I am like you, glad my daughter was in the hospital too when things went wrong quickly. Each situation is different and hopefully your daughters delivery will be great. Not all vaginal deliveries are perfect, and all c-sections aren't horrible either. My granddaughter was born with no pulse or respiration so the doctor didn't over sell the idea of the c-section, it was a matter of life and death. With the second baby my daughter didn't even consider going into labor and having a vaginal delivery even though her doctor encouraged it. She was still so scared from the previous problems daughter #1 had, she said she decided the c-section was lesser of the two evils in her mind. If your daughter would need a section she will do just fine. Let us know how things go. Connie

interestingly, in the UK you don't go in till much later. we were always told in antenatal classes to stay at home till the contractions were very regular--ie every few minutes! it depends how close you are to hospital, but i would definately stay home for as long as possible. First labours can be very long--with my first i had contractions every 5 - 10 minutes for 3 days before i started dilating. definately would not want to have been in hospital all that time (though i think if you are less than 5cm here they send you home anyway....). hospitals want to monitor and restrict movement--she wants to be up and mobile.

Hi Mae

How lucky you are to have a longstanding working relationship with this wise old man. In the same way as youngsters cannot process numbers without a calculator I think many younger doctors put too much trust in technology and finding ways to intervene 'positively' in their patients' lives. They are not old enough to have 'seen it all' and decide on their own unique mix of intervention and leaving well alone'. Also the older doctors have learned that many of their patients are just as intelligent and able to make decisions about their health as they are. They have nuffin' to prove to nobody. What wonderful teamwork.

It would certainly take a load of your minds to know that the pressure to complete immunisation early will be off.

Cheers

Louise

Connie, what a blessing medical technology was available when needed for your dear grandbabies -- truth is that many babies and mamas used to die during childbirth. In the cases where they save lives, it's great.

I also totally agree with the perspective that in the US, birth has gotten so far away from what was intended and that it's medicalized to an extent that has detrimental effects on moms, babies and society. Intervention should only be used in emergencies.

And the medical system itself can create emergencies. Mae, I recommend prior to giving birth, if your daughter hasn't already, that she read Ina Mae Gaskin's latest book -- Ina Mae Gaskins on Natural Childbirth. Her explanation of sphincter law is truly amazing and a gift to every pregnant woman. The thing about hospitals is that by their very nature, they create conditions that are not conducive to a laboring mother and the opening of the body that is required to give birth naturally. In many cases, my own included, it is a completely natural and subconscious to shut down with all of the strangers, bright lights etc. of a hospital setting. Many species of animals withdraw, give birth at night, in the dark, in safety. The same instincts are present in the human female. When sphincter law is messed with, it's labeled "failure to progress" which can lead down a slippery slope of medical intervention. Some women can minimize the disruptions and give birth naturally. Many cannot and end up with interventions they did not want.

This happened in my first birth -- ended up with pitocin, a 24 hour labor, refused pain meds, 4 hours of pushing and vacuum extraction, which resulted in a tear in vaginal tissue, loss of over 1/2 my blood, a blood transfusion and post-partum hemmorhage -- my dh thought I was going to die! All this after desiring to have a natural birth.

So, for second and 3rd babies, opted for home births. Really convinced that hospital setting created the problems. Sure enough, my body, with safety, knew how to give birth - one stitch for each birth. My 3rd literally flew out of me after about 1.5 hours of intense labor. One might have thought it crazy to do a home birth after the first birth and all that went wrong - I felt that it would have been crazy to go to a hospital again and I'm glad I made the choices I did.

3rd baby came out with cord wrapped around his neck 3 times, and was a little purple. Midwife, who had done over 3000 births and was the most intuitive midwife I could imagine, never even checked heartrate. Never asked why not, but she knew what she was doing and I trusted her. I chose her because she told me she always knew when a woman should be transported to a hospital -- just knew something was wrong.

It's all about praying for guidance in my opinion, and listening to the wisdom. One more story. A La Leche League friend felt convinced she should have a c-section rather than vaginal birth. Everyone kept telling her to try for a vbac, but she just couldn't get comfortable with it. So, she trusted her intuition against all other advice, and scheduled the c-section. When it was done, baby had pooped - meconium everywhere. Saved her just in time. Who knows -- if they'd waited to have her go into labor .....

I also recommend a good doula if giving birth in hospital -- someone besides mom and partner to advocate for mom.

Marie

Hi Alemama!

Just wanted to say, congratulations on your new little man!