New Here and Scared

Hi

Sometimes, just sometimes, I feel that tiny miracles happen that might make a big difference; I don't look at the WW forum every day, but having just logged in, I knew I had to reply to you.

First, welcome to Whole Woman - there are ladies from all over the world sharing and caring for one another, and I hope you will find the support and advice that so many of us are benefitting from.

I have been a member since about January 2011, when I noticed the bulge at the entrance to the vagina, and realised that all was not 'normal' in that department. I'm 55 and have four children, had epsisostomies etc and probably the makings of a prolapse for years. I experienced the same panic as you, two days of tears - I couldn't even wash up - and thought the future looked extremely bleak - an end to all the activities I like. They just happen to be cycling and beekeeping (yes I lifted a super of honey off a hive today and probably should have got help)- along with enjoying the family and garden etc, and working as a part time teacher.

Thankfully I found Whole Woman in the first week or so of research - along with other sites suggesting a pessary, or hysterectomy or other surgery. All very scary and initially VERY confusing. When I saw my GP she was very downbeat - no advice, no suggestions about lifestyle changes, just a referral to a consultant gynae. and out of the surgery in double quick time. That was pretty depressing.

I ordered the WW DVD, and Saving the Whole Woman book, quite expensive, but both worth their weight in gold. Improvement from walking and sitting in the posture takes time, in fact it takes time to really understand and do it right. But it is worth persevering. Also the workout on the DVD - I still only do the beginners workout (nearly every day). I started trying fire breathing about a month ago, and occasionally do the advanced workout. In time, the workouts have become almost second nature, and really give me a sense of wellbeing, and there is no worsening of my condition. The pelvic floor exercises (called Kegals in US) that GP recommended do not work the right muscles, and I am not practicing them.

On the emotional side, after the first few horrible days, mostly I am comfortable with having a rectocele (which sounds like what you have). I wear elastic top trousers, rest more than I used to, avoid heavy lifting (for school books I am going to get a shopping trolley, haven't worked out how to reduce the weight of bee handling - (perhaps we can think about that together). In a funny way, this particularly health issue actually has some up sides. One is that you are very unlikely to have urinary incontinence/leakage because the rectocele bulge prevents bladder leaks. Another is that we have to stop and think about our health and bodies, prioritise life's values.

Well done you for signing up to the Cycling Marathon - and I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to do it. Cycle in WW posture as best you can: shoulders down, lower belly relaxed and forward with tailbone out, is fine. I cycled 30 miles on the lanes of Pembroke yesterday with no bad effects - the rectocele stays inside, as opposed to being droopy when you are standing up for a long time. Christine has a youtube video on cycling.

I think it is a great thing you are due to go on holiday soon (anywhere nice?). Hopefully you will find it a time to de stress and relax - swimming is absolutely fine - in fact one forum member reckons it has helped her reverse her POP.

I am fortunate in having a pretty understanding husband - he read Christine's husband Lanny's article (I think it is in the WW library), but I try not to overload him. I have my bad days and good days as you will. Finally got to see a consultant after 6 months. She didn't recommend pessary - says it doesn't work well for rectocele. Suggested posterior surgery instead and pelvic floor exercises. Also told me not to believe what I read on the Internet.
Well - it was a pretty sobering visit, I suppose I had thought there may be a pessary around which could help but I think NHS only do ring pessaries. And I'm not going down the surgery route. Perhaps one could help you, but I have just ordered sea sponges from PinkRobin and will try them. Our NHS is so narrow sighted...

I realise I have rambled on for ages, but I really do hope you will find your way through the initial scare and look forward to a happy future. Keep reading the forums, and you can search for any particular topic you wish using the search box.

All the best, thinking of you

marigold2

Hi Apis,

Welcome to Whole Woman!

Marigold has given you such great information and advice. Soon it will be the rare doctor who has the audacity to disregard what is happening here at WW. It reminds me of “old wive’s tales”, which were discounted out of hand by the patriarchal medical system, yet in reality held vital women’s knowledge. Our old wive’s tales will ultimately replace the gynecologic response to prolapse and incontinence.

First things first. You do not have an “underneath”. You have a “behind”, and in normal anatomy your organs are carried forward right behind your lower belly. Here is a very rough draft of the new way we are conceptualizing the pelvic wall. You can see that even though the bottom half is slightly underneath, the entire pelvic diaphragm is oriented more like a wall than a “floor”.

The A&P repair likely fused your vaginal walls to your bladder and rectal walls. Because the body is naturally pulling the uterus forward with every breath you take, your fused pelvic “block” has likely been pulling slightly forward all these years. Based on what the physio said, and what is logical, your lower bowel has finally fallen into the U-shaped space that was created as the vagina moved forward.

I do not know how reversible this condition will be. My hope is that by pulling the entire pelvic contents forward with this work, the rectocele bulge will be straightened some.

I can relate to your condition because through an incontinence procedure my front vaginal wall was also pulled forward. This caused a similar opening up at the back, into which my uterus immediately fell. My uterine prolapse is very different from “natural” UP, which almost always is connected to a moderate cystocele. My symptoms are much more like rectocele.

What is needed in my case is very powerful lower abdominal breath and movement work, the beginnings of which I put into the First Aid for Prolapse dvd and also the first Whole Woman Yoga dvd. After a recent bout of worsening symptoms I have discovered yet another level of the same sort of work, which will be included in the second WWYoga dvd, available August 15th. It is simply amazing how much natural anatomic movement can be reinforced from the inside through breath and belly exercise. Because Middle Eastern belly dance was created by and for women, I can only assume it was in part addressing these extremely common conditions.

I hope this work is able to help you as well. What all women need to know, and what was the primary focus of my book, Saving the Whole Woman, is that there is no surgical solution for these conditions. You are living the reality that surgery makes the body less able to return to the true pelvic organ support system.

So, as Marigold implied, often the best course of action is to work with what we have. This means understanding anatomical realities and working to establish as much natural pelvic organ support as possible. This has nothing to do with pelvic floor exercises or e-stim, which have the potential to worsen rectocele symptoms.

Yes, please enjoy all your usual activities, resting when necessary and always reinforcing with WW methods. These work because they are one and the same with the true pelvic organ support system.

Wishing you well,

Christine

I'm also fairly new here, having discovered my cystocele (though I didn't know that's what it was) at the end of April. I'm no expert at all, so wouldn't offer advice on posture etc, there are several amazingly knowledgable women here will do that, but I can say that I do really understand and sympathise with the way you feel, and I'm sure that like me, you will feel better soon. I'm 55 and now I've had time to think about it, I've probably had a prolapse for years - I've been post menopausal for several years yet I can remember noticing that tampons didn't stay put the way they used to during my last few periods. Once noticed I became completely obsessed with it, floods of tears, constantly checking to see what it was doing, terrified to walk in case all my insides fell out and just generally thinking that my life was ruined. I was going on holiday within a couple of weeks too, walking in Cornwall and I couldn't see how I could possibly manage. Everyone here was so kind, assuring me that walking (in WW posture) is actually good for prolapse and Louise - she's so patient - gave me detailed advice on exactly how to walk. So off I went, had a lovely time and the prolapse didn't spoil things for us at all. I did go walking, though more slowly and not as far as I would have done normally (probably no reason for that, it's all in the mind). My partner has been so supportive, checks me all the time to make sure I'm standing properly and went out and bought me back supports for the car and sofa. It hasn't affected our relationship, if anything it's brought us closer. For me the holiday gave me time to absorb the shock, face the fears and come to terms with it. I think I'd been impatient for a quick fix, hoping each day to see an improvement, but now realise now this is a long term project and my aim now is to keep to the posture, do firebreathing etc and stop thing getting worse while hoping I may see an improvment eventually. Meanwhile I just get on with my life pretty much as normal, I go to work, walk, garden, do housework, go shopping etc but I do pace myself and treat myself kindly. I feel much calmer, more positive (which is not to say I don't still have panicky checking sessions) and in control. I think that what's happening in the mind is at least as important as the body. A calm mind WW posture and avoiding constipation seem to be key to dealing with prolapse! The other thing I do is pray - for myself and for all these wonderful women, I'll add you to the list if that's OK. The names are odd, but I'm sure God knows who they are!
Hope you feel better soon
Txx

Hi Apis mellifera

Just a quick reply as I'm just of to work. My lovely man bought me 3 different back supports. The lumbar roll sort I didn't like at all, seemed very hard and uncomfortable, the memory foam one was ok, but moulds itself to whatever pressure you put on it, so I found it didn't hold me in the ww posture if I forgot about it and slouched. The one I like best is the cheapest one, I think he bought it from Amazon for a few pounds. It is JMLSit Right and it is made from a mesh set on elastic supports, so air can flow around it and it is firm but flexible. The only thing I don't like is that it's a bit knobbly, I think it's supposed to massage your back, but can leave you a bit indented after a long journey. I take it from car to office and feel lost if I forget it. Ofcourse, I'm older and probably a different shape from you (too much tummy), so this is just my opinion.
I don't have any back problems, but I do have a funny hip that causes me a lot of pain sometimes and I haven't found that the back support makes it any worse at all. The WW posture helps the hip I'm sure. I would have thought it might be good for your back problems as well as all it does is allow your spine to revert to it's natural line, the way we used to stand as little girls before our mothers told us to hold our stomachs in!
Must go

Hi apis

Re back support - I got one from Halfords, black cover, cost around £4 I think. You can inflate it for a firmer support but I don't bother. It has made an enormous difference to my driving comfort (combined with a thin bit of foam to flatten the seat cushion a bit). I also bring the support into the house to get comfy on my existing chairs/sofas. Type in back support or Yaris in the search box. Likewise for help with fire breathing. The latter does take a while to work out, don't expect to master it for a while! - I think I'm getting there as it now feels comfortable to do and feels like it is helping reposition the rectocele.

Btw I have been a beekeeper for only a year - 3 colonies, about to unite so will be only 2.

I'm sure you'll enjoy camping in Brittany - we are often out there. The canal towpaths and former railways - now called green routes (voies vert) are brilliant for cycling.

Take it gently, and all the best

marigold

Briefly I want to mention that the donut pessary i have been wearing since May has somewhat made a severe prolapse somewhat normal. I am impressed with how it holds me up making up for muscle damage. I have other issues because of previous surgieris and have to exercise acceptance of pessary, knowing how horrid the prolapse feels without the prosthetic... Hopefully the issues of removing it and the discharges will in time be resolved

Me again, I just noticed you asked about sea sponges, not sure if anyone has replied to you about them yet.
You can get sea sponge pessaries in the uk from a company called Pink Robin. Having read here that some women found they worked well, I bought a couple but I wasn't very successful with them. The leaflet that came with them just said to soak it in water, squeeze the excess out and then insert. I found it went in OK. and stayed put and did hold the POP up, but when I came remove it, it seemed to be strangely welded to me(!) and was painful to pull out, caused a bit of bleeding too. However, I've read more since and I should have coated it in oil, I think that would have helped a lot. Also I'm post menopausal, so I expect that make a difference too. I haven't tried since, though I've read with interest Christine's recent post on using cotton balls and might give them a try. Not sure the ones I've seen over here would be big enough, but I imagine you could buy a roll of cotton wool and then pull off a piece and make your own.
Tx

apis - realised I made an error in quoting approximate cost of a back support from Halfords, it should read £34.

If you are doing stewarding at the bee county show, I suggest sit down whenever possible, or at least limit the time on your feet. Adequate rest really is important. Alternatively clear the rest of the day so that you don't have to cook, clean or other stuff at home - probably suggesting the impossible!!

I got my husband to help me with bees tonight, it went fine. Rather than than think of the drastic idea of giving up your hobby, perhaps you could downsize. We have a new beekeeper in our local group who has a top bar hive (african style) specifically so that lifting is minimized. Might be worth a thought. Or, another thought, perhaps you might know or meet someone who would be happy to give a hand with the bees in return for honey?? I have two nationals and a Warré; the latter with the idea that it will need minimum human intervention. So far so good, but they have only been in the hive a month or so.

Enjoy the county bee day and enjoy the holiday. What part of Brittany, out of interest?

marigold

Someone recently suggested a hot water bottle as a back support. It is infinitely adjustable. The other possibility would be a flat, inflatable cushion.

Mine is a little cheapie from an auto accessories shop (less than $20). It is a flat D shape, with slightly higher sides than centre. about 30cm square. It is slightly fatter at the bottom than the top. Overall the centre is about 4cm thick. It is made from high density foam. Its first cover was quilted cotton, but when it wore out I replaced it with a cover I made myself, using the old one as a pattern. It has a zip at the top, so I can shove my inflatable neck cushion and raincoat in there for storage. I have also sown on an adjustable strap that I can unclip and zip inside the cover, or put it over my head rest in the car, or sling it over my shoulder or my suitcase handle in airports. I sat on it for three days cross-legged on the ground at a music festival in March, and just hand-washed the cover the night before flying home. It is my lifesaver.

Getting the height right is the secret for me. The taller ones don't allow much flexibility in shape. I like my low one because I can get my butt underneath it, and my shoulder blades above it, and back. I think its main function is to keep my mid-back straight. That keeps my lumbar curve large in radius and in place.

My other trick is to put a foam wedge under my car seat cover, which makes my seat base horizontal, rather than sloping backwards. I bought it for about $20 from a foam shop. I had to trim the back corners and sides on the underside of it to match the profile of the seat base, which is kind of dished, and becomes moreso with wear. When DH and I are travelling and sharing driving in his dual cab ute I use a folded blanket which does the same job, but I may manufacture a custom shaped wedge in a fabric cover so I don't have to refold the blanket every time we change drivers.

L

Hi Apis, glad to hear that it's not anything major and that you are feeling better. I am curious about your anterior & posterior repair - have you had any side effects aside from the occasional burning sensation? Did everything feel normal again after the surgery? And why did you have it done in the first place- you mentioned feeling 'low', does that mean pop? thanks.

Hi Apis

Well, if you had made a different decision you might have found it easier now, but it is very difficult to make a different decision when all those around you are urging you to have surgery, and the only thing standing up to them was a vacuum of information. It is a big mind shift to go out on the Net and look for something if you don't know what you are looking for.

I only found WW after it became apparent to me that I had POP, and had made a Gyn appointment, and I wanted to know what was really going on down there and what sort of surgical procedures he might want to do. Curiosity can be a useful characteristic, but I was very unsure when I found WW that Christine Kent's techniques could even work.

"Should have" is a phrase that can eat you up from the inside if you let it. I can only encourage you to not let it get to you. Really, all we can really do is respond to what presents itself, and you seem to have done that very well by coping with the post-surgical pain and discomfort and accepting that it sometimes comes back, but that it will go again.

I suggest that you banish the word "should" from your personal dictionary. It is a word that simply induces guilt and regret. Rarely it will also stop us from doing something we will regret, or makes us do something that we know would be better if it were done. "... would prefer to ..." or "... would be better of if ..." If neither of these fit, then think again about your motivation for making the choice you make.

That's just my little bit of homespun wisdom. Now, off you go, forgive yourself, be gentle with yourself and give yourself a treat for being an OK person.

Louise :-)

This sounds like a great idea. Maybe coating the sponge with K-Y, which is available here in the USA. Would this work okay?