Is this a prolapse ? will cones/pelvic floos exercisers help ?

First of all, let me just say "take a deep breath and relax". You've come to the right place. It sounds like you do have prolapse, but also you are only 6 months from giving birth, so you will have to give yourself time to heal. I have no experience with the products you asked about except one but have found the posture and exercises to be the absolute best help. There are physical therapists out there who do good work with the prolapses but check them out first to make sure they are experienced. Some are, some aren't.

Everyone of us felt devastated when we landed on this website and it is absolutely amazing at the turnaround, not only in the body, but in the attitudes and how we now feel about ourselves. The best advice is to work on the posture, practice the exercises, eat better, and pay attention to the constipation issues.

Please, take the time to read thru as many posts as you can, go through all the FAQ's on the home page and if you can, order Christine's book.

And don't forget to come back on board if you have questions or need a little boost. There are a great number of sweet ladies here who will reach out to you.

Blessings,
Grandma Joy

congratulations on your baby. i am a thirty-eight (for one more glorious month) mama to 2. i have a cystocele & rectocele. neither gives me too much trouble, mostly discomfort. from your post, it sounds as if you could have prolapse. you should go to see a doctor or midwife. because you mentioned that you had chronic constipation earlier, i would urge you to never strain on the toilet. this is one thing that has a definite negative impact on my prolapse. 2 doctors have diagnosed my prolapse & neither one told me not to strain. of course, the only thing either did tell me was to do kegels (which i've been doing for the better part of 6 years to no avail!). not so helpful. i understand your feeling disappointed & overwhelmed by all of this. remember too, you have a little baby. that is alot to deal with emotionally as well as physically. see a dr. or midwife to find out what you're dealing with. and please give yourself time to look over this website. there is a tremendous amount of information and support here. as far as "products" go, i don't know anything about them!

-- mary ann

It is NOT in any way your lack of Kegels that have caused this - I didn't do a single Kegel after my first two kids - Not one until they were like 13 and 14yrs old when I had my third child... Maybe i coulda done a few - lol - But I didn't

As you are relatively new post partum then you are still in a great place to begin posture now and protect yourself for the rest of your life :-)

If you are overdoing Kegels - Not that CAN cause your prolapse to worsten considerably. When i found my prolapse (a coupleof years after my third childs birth) I sta\rted Kegelling like a loon and did hundreds a day (300+) and all it did was make my prolapse ALOT worse. Now - I still do a few kegels (more cos it became a habit than for their useage - lol) Maybe 10 -15 lol - But nothing has changed cos I suddenly stopped ina bad way - In fact quite the opposite. Kegelling can just make the muscle tired and more lax - then you 'drag' more.

If you begin posture now - You should see a difference pretty quick and feel so much better :-)

You will find that you have fallen across a very comforting family. And you will find alot of help here :-)

Congrats on your baby - Enjoy :-)

Sue

I am feeling rather confused about teh whole Kegel thing.
I know some people swear by them, and others say they don't help / hurt.
how do you know?
i'm working with a physio who has given me a kegel "routine" to do throughout the day, and feel unsure if it's good to do now...
????
thanks
k

Hi Peony,

I am sorry you had such a traumatic delivery and were so low afterwards. I also suffered from PPD after the birth of my daughter a year ago. It is a horrible lonely place. I am glad you are feeling better now.

Everyone else makes such great points. The main premise for the cones and other "vaginal exercisers" are increasing strength of the pelvic floor muscles, which are to all intents and purposes doing quick or slow kegels. After I developed prolapse I also initially did a lot of kegels, and now do a few each day. I don't think they have done me any harm prolapse wise. They may not have helped much either, though I feel like they helped my rectocele by toning up the back vaginal wall somewhat. It is difficult to say whether this would have happened anyway with natural post partum healing.

Not doing kegels will not have caused your prolapse. It simply does not work that way.

I really would go to a Dr, just to get a provisional diagnosis. You may not be dealing with prolapse, though it does sound like it I have to admit. I had a large vaginal cyst which made my rectocele seem a lot bigger and wouldn't have known this had I not got it checked out.

You are in the right place here for support and information. Be gentle with yourself. It can be exhausting with a small baby when something happens like this, something so unexpected.

Take care and ask as many questions as you like!

Hugs,

Michelle.

Hi KiKi,

It IS confusing isn't it! I don't think we do know for sure whether they help or hurt some people.

My PT also had me doing about 100 kegels a day. I personally don't think they did me any harm, but others here have reported that they feel that they have made prolapse worse.

I do think that they perhaps helped to retone stretched vaginal/ pelvic floor muscles to hold my uterus in place post partum, and maybe helped with "ironing out" my rectocele a little. I saw such a dramatic and quick improvement with the uterine prolapse. Then again, I was doing the posture and reinstating the lumbar curve as well, and this could well have been the main factor.

I wrestled with this all of last year and feel pretty much now that they don't do a whole lot for prolapse. Reading Christine's blog post "why kegels don't work" may help to clarify it for you.

The main thing that did it for for me is that even if kegels do help muscle tone, most prolapse is caused by damage to muscle, (except for post partum perhaps), and no amount of exercises are going to repair torn muscle, fascia and ligaments.

I still do a few a day and I do feel like they have improved vaginal tone post partum, and like I said personally don't feel like they hurt me at all.

Sorry I can't be more helpful on this. Hope others can add to it!

It is pretty amazing that PT's all over the place have us women doing all these kegels, and Dr's ALWAYS say the same, and yet there is really no research studies to prove that it does any good at all. Just seems kind of wierd to me but anyway.

welcome to the site and congrats on the new baby! I'm sorry you had such a traumatic birth experience, that stays with a woman for a loooong time. and I've been down the post partum depression road too, its an awful place to be, and an awful way to begin motherhood. I'm so happy to hear that you've passed through it to the other side. my favorite photo is one taken of me and my dd soon after I 'got back' from PPD. but I digress....

sounds to me like you do have a prolapse, probably a rectocele, but you really should get a diagnosis from a dr or mw. I completely understand not wanting to go (heck, I put it off for a year!) but you want to be sure nothing else is going on. we're all here for you, rooting you on, holding your hand, so think of that while you make the appointment. you are so not alone.

kegels and the products you mention are devised to help strengthen the 'pelvic floor' musculature. which they do. problem is, I don't think they do much for prolapse. I'll try to explain it in a nutshell: the pelvic floor isn't much of a floor at all. and it isn't supposed to be. when standing in the wholewoman posture the pelvic floor turns into a wall and the floor is...BONE! and that's what prevents your organs from falling out. so instead of putting our energy into strengthening muscles that are being trained to do what nature never intended them to do, we are learning to hold our bodies in a way which promotes intrinsic stability for the pelvic organs. make any sense?
really, I think the best way to visualize this is to get your hands on christine's book. her diagrams are fantastic and she really explains why prolapse happens and how to stabilize/reverse it.

your lapse in doing kegels DID NOT cause this.

You are in a tough place right now, and its completely normal. Prolapse sucks, and the loss is real. somewhere on this site (very old posts) is a 'timeline' of the mourning/healing that women tend to go through when dealing with this. must be hard to be doing that with a new baby, especially when you've just gotten past the PPD.

but stick around, ask any questions you have. this is a wonderfully supportive group, I don't know where I'd be without them.

big hug to you (((peony)))please please please know that you are not alone- every one here has one prolapse or another or all three....and we are not ashamed (or not anymore anyway:)) and by the way my husband is so sick of hearing about this whole prolapse thing I know he wishes I never ever brought it up however he is on board front and center in my support system- is your husband supportive in other areas of your life? If it helps to know...we still get it on-with no complaints from him (I complain sometimes and positioning is tricky but not unromantic- you know what I mean?)
Okay- now the full feeling- nothing has just poped out. I think as long as you don't strain to lift or in the bathroom you don't really run the risk of popping out.
and the Dr. okay everyone says going to the dr. is a good idea but....I saw my midwife- it was a really good visit and I shared this site with her too-
Sometimes small towns can be a real pain- do you have a larger town close to you? just a thought.
This is not your fault. and if we all work hard at talking about this with other women and healthcare providers and our children we will erase the stigma attached to it too. This is a chronic condition just like any other health condition. Just because it involves a womans vagina doesn't make it yucky.

Hi Kiki

You could also try doing a search of the site, using the Search box at left of screen. You may have already done this. Look for posts by Christine.

I am still waiting for my copy of the new edition of Saving the Whole Woman so I cannot be sure, but I think there is a pretty comprehensive guide to Kegals in there somewhere.

It is not that Kegals are unhelpful or damaging. It is to do with the importance of lifting with each Kegal, rather than just squeezing. It is a matter of exercising some muscles in particular. It is also a matter of not over-exercising these muscles, that are really only designed as a kind of protection for the genitals, not as a supporting structure for the genitals; the pubic bone is the supporting structure as long as your posture allows it to be. These muscles have the wrong type of muscle tissue for weightlifting, so doing large numbers of big contractions of them will just tire the poor little darlings out unnecessarily. A few every day is enough, particularly if you have had dodgy posture for a while. They get their exercise while we go about our everyday tasks, lifting, carrying, changing position, running, walking etc. They are stretched taut in both backwards-forwards direction and sideways when the woman assumes Wholewoman posture, because the pelvis changes shape in this posture, making the pelvic floor opening larger (wierd, eh?) so the muscles are stretched, taut and strong in that position. You really need to get a copy of the new edition of the book for Christine's description, but I think that is the gist of it.

Cheers

Louise

I didn't want to tell my dh right away either, and we have the kind of relationship where I tell him EVERYTHING. I felt damaged, disfigured, and humiliated. I of course did tell him, because I can't keep anything in for too long, and he claims not to notice. He wasn't too surprised by it either, not that he'd ever heard of prolapse, it just made sense to him that after three babies things were going to be different.

regarding the full feeling, once I got that feeling things were already popping out. that's what the feeling was.

about falling to pieces in front of the dr....now's the time to go, when you still have a tiny baby. can always blame it on the hormones : )

{{{hugs}}} it gets better, really it does

i wanted you to know that you are not alone in feeling scared to tell your husband. mine knew about my cystocele for a while before i learned of the rectocele. i broke down crying when i told him about that -- and he'd already seen me push 2 babies out. finding out that you have the organs that hold pee & poop bulging into your coochie is humbling enough. having to share that news with the one person who you are counting on to be sexually attracted to you for the rest of your life is alot to ask of a woman! my husband has been incredibly supportive (though wondering why all the blushing has gone out of his bride) & is giving me the time & space & (limited) finances so that i can take care of my body. good luck, kiki. the good news is you have found your way here & i can pretty much guarantee that your life will change for the better as a result.

hello there, kiki:

just wanted to add my hellos and second virtually everything that's been said before me.

i can tell you with certainty that every single woman here understands your feelings of shame and devastation. i have only been diagnosed since late november and found this site in early december, but you can see from my initial posts, i, too, felt that way -- along with a host of other crappy feelings, like how could my body fail me like this and what will the rest of my life hold. scary scary scary feelings, all. the women on this site just sort of scooped me up, told me that all these feelings were perfectly normal and they had them to, and then started bolstering me with their incredible stories and experiences with their own prolapses. not even three months later, i can tell you that emotionally, i am in a radically different place. radically.

i, too, had that misplaced tampon feeling. that was exactly how i described it. i can tell you that 99.9% of the time, i do not have that anymore. i will also tell you that i NEVER did kegels while pregnant, after pregnancy -- never. and i don't think not doing them was really a factor in the prolapse at all. i think that had to do with my vaginal birth that had LOTS of tearing and the constipation that i've struggled with my whole life. oh...and as to kegels, i believe it was louise who mentioned that it isn't just about squeezing, but lifting as well and my own gyn really did NOTHING to make that clear. she just said squeeze. huh. okay. so the thing that makes me mad about it is there's all this talk about kegels helping, but then most gyn/pt's don't take the time to help a woman do them correctly. (and it does take time! i do go to a pelvic floor pt and it took up three full sessions for her to show me the right way to do them and, yes, that involves a focused sense of pulling UP that uses a host of muscles one really needs to be taught how to isolate. it makes me mad that my gyn spent literally 3 seconds telling me "how" to do them. grrrr..) anyway,my point here is that not doing kegels had nothing to do with the prolapse. plenty of women get prolapes kegeling their rumps off!

as other women have already reminded you, you are still really post partum. ALOT can change -- and probably will just as your body readjusts. you spent 10 months growing a baby; you should give yourself at least that much time to recover, though i feel far longer should be expected, ESPECIALLY with a traumatic birth. you still really need to heal from that.

there is a long thread in the food forum about constipation. i went through a HORRIBLE bout of constipation in january and the thread is full of great ideas to help that. i will tell you that getting that under control has been a HUGE factor in my rectocele feeling a zillion times better -- as i said, really no more out-of-place-tampon feeling. i am also trying to eat all organic and i think that makes a big difference, too. just the quality of food going in to me to help me stabilize and heal is so much better that it can only help my whole being -- one of the NUMBER of perks, in my opinion, of discovering my prolapse.

someone had a great idea that maybe you can go to a midwife or doctor in another town? if that would make you more comfortable, maybe you should try that -- if that would be logistically possible.

and as to telling your husband, i'm of of the blurt-it-all-out-don't-hold-it-in variety. i simply can't keep stuff in. i went to the doctor and immediately called my husband in tears. yeah, that sense of damage and my body failing was immediate for me and it felt horrible. he was great and it was a relief to tell him. you need to tell your husband when and only when you feel ready, though whenever that is, i suspect you will feel great relief because he will look at you and just see the same you. (and my husband, too, couldn't feel it when we have sex -- nor can i, for that matter, so it doesn't get in the way at all. if anything, it's improved my sex life because i am far more aware of my pelvic area and much more aware of doing what I want to do. does that make sense?)

kiki, you are so in the right place. we all understand how you're feeling; we've all been there. at some point, though -- and the WHEN of that i can't tell you -- you will start to realize that your life will honestly be FINE living with these prolapses. in fact, i suspect that you will find wonderful things coming from having them -- as i said, i take far better care of myself, i look better than i have in a long time, my sex life is better, i feel deeply powerful about myself, AND i have found this truly AMAZING community of women who support each other like no others i have found.

we are all here for any and all questions. and, please be resting as much as you can! you have a new baby! you must be pooped!

hugs to you,

xxsusan

Hello
I've just been diagnosed with 2nd degree cestocelle (sp). What a terrifying thing. Fortunately I found this site before going to the doc, so was well prepared. But I still feel terrible. I want my body back the way it was. Our baby girl is 6 months old, it's our first baby and I'm 32. (Fairly young I thought!) I vascilate between feeling ok and feeling like running off the nearest cliff. Just as well I live in a city! How are you doing now Peony?
Miame

Hi Miame

Welcome to the best place in the world to learn how to deal with this prolapse thing.
Rule 1. Keep breathing
Rule 2. Stay away from cliffs for a few weeks until you have mastered a few principles.
Rule 3. Recognise that your baby is still only 6 months old, and it often takes over a year for a woman's body to return to prepregnant state, contrary to what the Yummy Mummies would tell us.
Rule 4. Recognise that there is no cure for prolapse. Surgery may give some short or maybe medium term relief, but irretrievably changes the dynamics of how your pelvic area operates, and will probably set you up for further prolapse. Learning how to manage and minimise your symptoms will probably reduce them to a point where you hardly think about them on a day to day basis. This may take several months but the *occasional* woman is still struggling long after that. Mostly though, it works and you will probably find that they will post replies to show you this.
Rule 5. Start changing your posture right now. Most cystoceles can be improved drastically by simply standing, sitting and walking with your pelvic organs carried further forward, supported by solid bone, your pubic bone, instead of by thin muscle tissue, your pelvic floor.
Rule 6. Buy the new edition of Christine Kent's book, Saving the Wholewoman, which will equip you with all the other things you can do for yourself to improve your prolapse. You can find it in the online shop at www.wholewoman.com. It also has very good descriptions of most of the surgical techniques offered to women to "fix" their prolapses, along with their associated risks and complications. These are all very well-referenced from peer reviewed scientific journals, so it is all true, and most of us find, quite scary.
Rule 7. Trawl the search facility on the lefthand side to find other topics about "cystocele", to find what others have already said.
That should keep you so busy you won't have time to worry.

Sorry to have to tell you this, but you can't have your old body back. Every women who has ever given birth will tell you this, more or less. I thin you really know this anyway. There are many women of your age with prolapses who are Members of this Forum. I think they just pick it up earlier these days.

Be gentle on yourself and learn along with us.

Cheers

Louise