Sporty and depressed

Welcome Tracey!

I'm glad you found us, too. There are several points in your message that I would like to address.

First of all, I hope I can help you reframe your desperate outlook on your situation. Let me begin with a quote from the wonderful Lewis Thomas who wrote The Lives of a Cell:

"We pay too little attention and respect to the built-in durability and sheer power of the human organism. It's surest tendency is toward stability and balance. It is a distortion, with something profoundly disloyal about it, to picture the human being as a teetering, fallible contraption, always needing watching and patching, always on the verge of flapping to pieces."

Women with prolapse, particularly uterine prolapse where the cervix has elongated to the introitus, have to come to terms with the fact that they now have a chronic condition. With this, my hope is that they will also tell younger women that prolapse is a highly preventable condition.

All of the adjunct treatments you describe for prolapse are terrific, but the key variable here is your posture. It is not your pelvic floor that has failed (although the nerve and tissue damage from your instrumental birth did not help), but rather your spine that needs attention. Only you can provide this by returning the natural lumbar curvature to your spine through standing and seated postures. I have explained how to do this in the posture download.

I know it sounds amazing, but our breath is what truly created the shape of our body. This female shape is also what supports our pelvic organs. When the body is not in this shape intraabdominal forces are pushing the organs out rather than holding them in.

I see absolutely no reason why riding with good posture should negatively effect your condition. The same applies to running, unless you are pushing yourself past a point where the body can maintain good posture. A sedentary lifestyle is the worst thing for prolapse!

Once the cervix stretches all the way down, uterine prolapse becomes sort of an up-and-down affair for the long run. I believe for you it will be more up than down. There are many variables here not the least of which is menstruation. By the way, breastfeeding pulls your uterus into place and should not be a negative factor here, either.

There is a coming-to-terms with your condition that needs to take place before you can settle into acceptance and moving forward. My experience with prolapse has given me an awareness and level of health I probably would not have achieved otherwise. I also have brought my body to a point that I know I will be able to maintain throughout my life. I have some very sedentary times, such as now with intense writing, but still my condition does not change. This is because I am continuing to hold the "vessel" through which the breath can flow.

I can offer you a few points. The female pelvis, unlike the male pelvis, has a very wide arch at the bottom of the pubic bone. This is meant to carry the weight of our abdominal and pelvic organs. Think of this as you push your weight forward. This will create a very natural curve in your lumbar spine. An unnatural sway-back will be eliminated by keeping your head/neck/shoulders in the position as illustrated.

You describe yourself as very fit. If this includes a flat stomach, perhaps you would consider encouraging a more rounded tummy. We have natural padding in our lower abdomen (see my Feb. 4th post to Lara) that is part of a very specific anatomy that provides the course for internal pressures to flow through correctly. I'm trying to help women see their stomachs as beautiful rather than hiding and holding them in as we've done for so long.

It is my absolute belief that this is the only truly healthy and effective way to address prolapse.

I hope this helps. Please keep us posted with your progress.

Wishing you well,

Christine

p.s. The movement routine I have in my book will be great for you.

Hi Tracey,

I believe if you work to understand the dynamics of what is going on with your body you will basically be able to reverse your condition. To what degree I do not know...I'm hoping you will tell me in a few months. I know of no other breastfeeding moms either...this work is new. We have some young mothers already and I'm so looking forward to seeing how they do.

The automatic responder that sends out the downloads seems to get hung up most weekends...I've alerted the office that it is not working...someone is going to go over and check it, so hopefully you will receive yours soon. I can't explain the whole thing here so must ask you to wait in suspense!

About the jeans...I totally understand. As your body begins to teach you what improves/aggravates your condition you will naturally make the best clothing choices.

I can't tell you one way or another if a future pregnancy would worsen or improve your condition. Knowing what I do now, if I were considering pregnancy I wouldn't hesitate getting pregnant again, because I know I would be able to bring my body back to baseline.

Your comment "two steps forward, one step back" is a perfect quote from my book! That's what this work really is and that's what I mean by chronicity. First I want to tell you that in the worse-case scenario, it is highly unlikely your cervix would ever descend past your introitus. I know that knowledge isn't particularly helpful when you're first dealing with this, but if you think about it, things can only get so bad.

When you really start to carry your body differently, you'll see the change and after a while you will understand that you have stabilized the prolapse forever. Is it like it was when we were 19? No!! But in the scheme of things, it is such a wonderful thing to have created health where there could so easily be damage and destruction. I can tell you with all honesty that I feel fabulous at 51.

The procedure you are asking about I am assuming would be to suture your uterosacral ligaments to the sacrospinous ligament. I just can't go into the particulars of that here because they are so complex. My next book is all about natural female posture and includes a chapter on exactly how these surgeries change our musculoskeletal system so that this posture is no longer even an option. If the underlying dynamics of why you prolapsed in the first place don't change, what is there to believe you wouldn't prolapse again? In addition, pulling your vagina toward the back will place your bladder at very high risk (90%) of prolapsing against the front wall of your vagina. This is why you would likely be counseled to have a bladder neck suspension as well. My book will inform you of the risks involved there.

My best advise to you is to completely relax. It sounds like you have a wonderful life and NOTHING in that life need change for the worse. You are in control of your situation.

I hope I've answered all your questions, but feel free to check in here anytime you want.

Happily,

Christine

hello, christine
i was just reading through the posts and i note that you say that breastfeeding is a positive factor in as much as it pulls the uterus into place. I am still breastfeeding my 2 year old (i wrote a post a couple of weeks ago to which you kindly replied!) so am interested in the possible effects of nursing, on the prolapse situation. Now i am a little anxious that things are going to get worse when i (eventually!!) stop feeding altogether. My daughter will end up being about 10 years old before she's weaned, in that case! ;)
I just wondered if you were referring to something such as oxytocin release during nursing making the uterus contract, or somthing to do with oestrogen levels being suppressed during breastfeeding. I have had a regular menstrual cycle despite exclusively breastfeeding, since my daughter was about 4 months old, so I guess my hormones must be near to what they would be were i not feeing.
I have already searched the internet a little for information on this but it doesnt seem to be a hot topic!

would love to hear your thoughts on this...
best wishes,
georgina x

I'm not Christine, but I believe the effects nursing has on the uterus has to do with the time period that the uterus is reverting back to its normal size after pregnancy. I know for me, my stomach flattens back down relatively quickly as a result of my nursing as compared to my formula feeding friends. I am unaware of any other effect. However, when I stopped nursing my second daughter the one I prolapsed after, the prolapse was no worse, nor any better.
Jane

hi Jane
thanks for that....and congratulations on your new arrival. you are an inspiration and have given me the confidence to think about having another baby post-prolapse!
georgina x

Dear Tracey,
I was intrigued by your comment in this post about Mayan womb massage. Went on line and looked it up. I found a great spot that describes it. I don't think there is anyone around here that does it so I am trying it myself. Also, have been rolling my spine on my stability ball in the morning to loosen up and help me get into my posture. I noticed this morning that while in the stretch on my stability ball, I can get much better depth on the massage. Do you know a practitioner of Mayan womb massage who could say if this is okay - to do the massage in a stretched out postion?
Peace, Karen

Hi Tracey -

Just wanted to ask you, are you doing just Pilates, or are you doing the exercises in the book as well? I had just settled into doing the 20-minute Pilates workout 5-6 times/week (and loved it!)when I discovered my prolapse and then I got Christine's book and have been trying to at least do those exercises and then add back the Pilates, but between being so tired from learning the posture and simply being very busy, I just haven't been able to consistently do either one. (Christine, you are so right about rest. If I don't get enough, I just can't keep my upper back straight. One day at a time... :-))

Also, this Mayan womb massage you and Karen are talking about - what book are you reading? It sounds fascinating. Is that where you found the vaginal steam, too? I had never heard of either one before reading your posts.

Thanks,
Lynn

Whoops - now I see it - Rainforest Remedies - looks like you've got the one by Rosita Arvigo. (I'm looking at Amazon) Thanks again - Lynn

Hi Tracey and Lynn,
Sorry to have been out of touch. My computer has been out of service this last week. I'm glad you found the info Lynn. For me, the massage is very soothing after my period which is my most uncomfortable time for prolapse s others have said. I find there is a thin line between soothing and uncomfortable on the massage so pay attention to how it feels to you. I find it is also great for getting in touch with my uterus and serves to move it up.
Peace, Karen

Hi Tracey;
Just to id myself as 56 with uterine prolapse.
Startled I had gone to emergency room. There I remembered one of my sisters told me years ago that her uterus was falling out. I remember thinking how bizarre! Asking how could you tell she said it was right there to feel. She had had her 4th child a few weeks earlier.

So I phoned her from the pay phone at the hospital. She could not remember having this. It had totally gone back and not relapsed since~ 10 years. My sister eats wonderfully healthy is so slim and is really active. (I tend to be more sedentary and drink coffee)
I also remember hearing ~35 years ago about women having this and feeling they must be more delicate creatures and not as well put together as I thought myself to be --Oh well
Hope all goes well for you and you too have relalpse
Wish mine would relapse too-Cathy

Dear Karen:

I have my first scheduled womb massage Monday but I am feeling uncomfortable because I realize it's kind of invasive and my internal tissues are older and more delicate now that I'm years past menopause. Would you say that the massage is rough and do they really push and prod around on your abdomen?

I'm trying to get more information on what to expect before I go in there. If not, I may just have to pay for my full session and just talk to her or have her demonstrate it on herself. She said I would have a home program of self massage for about 10 minutes per day. Did your therapist give you a home program also?

Since you have experienced this massage and since you are not a young woman in your twenties, if you could share your "take" on what it's like for a mature woman, I would really appreciate it. I am doing so great at this point using just the postural changes, I don't want anything that could even remotely give me a set back of any kind. Plus, my main problem is not the uterus; it's the bladder. Thanks for any feedback you can share with me. -Chris

Chris, if I could just butt in with a question of my own, too - there doesn't seem to be a therapist anywhere near where I live and I haven't bought the book yet but I'm wondering if it's safe and effective just to do what's in the book or should I just "leave things alone" until I can get to someone trained in the technique first. I'm concerned that I could make things worse if I do it wrong...

Thanks,
Lynn

Hi Chris and Lynn,

Just a couple of thoughts, since I think I may have planted a seed of fear around deep massage in this area. My situation is very different than yours and I think under normal conditions and if done correctly this type of work could not hurt. What might be worse is fearing that our organs and tissues are extremely delicate or that we could easily dislodge them. Remember that our bodies are extremely dynamic. I'm beginning to understand that our fascial structures are really what holds us all together. Finding ways to tone the fascia is the key for all of us, and (not to sound like a broken record) because the fascia reaches from our head to our toes, the posture (supported by the spine) is the ultimate way to shape our entire organism and reposition our organs in the process.

Christine

Thanks Christine. My concern on delicate tissues was that if I had a tendon or facial structure that was just ready to go or hanging on by a thread from being torn or damaged in the past or through my bad posture and lifestyle in the past that deep probing or rearranging could tear it loose or tear it worse. -Chris

To add a P.S. to my concerns - I was hoping someone - preferably a woman who is close to menopause - who had been throgh one of these massages could kind of give me input as to what it's like - whether there is deep probing or pulling on the abdomen, etc., then I could see if I feel comfortable or not with it. I've learned the hard way that I should listen to my own internal comfort zone no matter what my head or brain says is the way to go.

I do believe my body is strong and able to cope with my weight lifting and running but I would have to have some kind of an idea what is involved from someone who has gone through the womb massage before I would know if it's something I feel comfortable allowing my body to be subjected to.

You and stating your situation didn't put a fear into me at all Christine. I have had concern about tendons being compromised and facial tissues being torn and herniated for years and years. It just occurred to me last night in the night that I needed more information and I remembered reading Karen's post and I planned to ask her about what it was like today and then make up my mind what I should do. No matter what I do the therapist will learn about the posture and I will show her the book and she will receive her full fee - even if I don't get a massage. -Chris

Hi Chris,
I have not seen a therapist, only done this Mayan massage on myself after reading about it. Sorry if I have confused the issue at all. With Christine, I would say don't be afraid of it. I am very sensitive when it comes to massage and also tend to be a bit of a weeny and overly cautious. Don't let my words scare you.
Just talk to your therapist. Tell her all your concerns as you have stated them here. Try to be very relaxed. Then give her lots of feedback - such as "too deep, that feels good, ease up, etc." I'm really jealous that you have found someone trained to do this. By the way, ask that question. Is she trained by someone or just started doing it herself?
I so understand your hesitance. Since I have taken over my own care in this matter, I am cautious about giving anyone freedom with it. I went to get an exam to get a medical diagnosis. When she did my rectal exam she pushed really hard on the area of my rectocele and it was worse for a few days. I'll never let any Dr. do that again!
I really think you will be fine and will feel better after your massage. But you be in control!
Can't wait to hear all about it!
Peace, Karen

Thanks, Christine and Karen. I am anxious to try this - seems like everyone who has done it and posted here has had good results.

Take care,
Lynn

I had my womb massage. I really like the therapist. She was open to my concerns and she said she had even ordered Christine's book so I'm glad she will have that additional information about the pelvic floor to help her clients. I'll how I do as time progresses. It was a pleasant experience. I always like to give things time before I come to any conclusions. -Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for the feedback. I'm looking forward to finding someone, too. Did she give you instructions in how to do this yourself? It sounds like such a nice addition to the work.

Christine

Dear Christine:

Yes, I was given hands on instruction and an instruction sheet for a daily home program. It takes about 10 minutes first thing in the morning. I believe my therapist is also going to be in on the teleconference - at least she checked with me about the start time for us here. We are in kind of a unique situation in my state because we do not go on daylight saving time so we are essentially on Pacific time part of the year and Mountain time the rest of the year. I think we are on Pacific time now so I told her I was going to call at 6:00 PM and see if it's starting and, if not call back at 7:00. I'm pretty sure it will be at 6:00 - which is a much better time for me since I live on "Poultry Standard Time" all year round - very early to bed early to rise.

I have a question about one of the aids that are used to help keep the womb in proper position. It's a long strip of kind of wide (about 6 inches) unbleached muslin cloth that gets wound around the lower abdomen at just around and also slightly above the pubic bone with it crossing over the lowest part of the tailbone and with it knotted over the pubic bone. I am reading your book again to try to determine if wearing something like this kind of tight all the way around my lower abdomen could change or increasse any of the intra abdominal pressures. I'm not very good at determining whether this is true or not from my reading. If you have any input, I'd really appreciate it. As I've said in the past, I have a hard time tolerating anything that circumscribes my body if it's the least bit tight in any way. I will use this aid if it could be helpful to protect my pelvic floor during times of increased pressures - such as my weightlifting - but I don't want to use it if it will change in a negative way or increase internal abdominal pressures in any way. Because the knowledge that you have discovered about pelvic floor internal forces is new and revolutionary, nobody has known about it before you and some could be doing things thinking they are helpful and not knowing if they weren't. -Chris

Hi Chris,

Gosh, I don't have enough information to say anything definitive, but my first impression is that it's a little misconceived. How would this sort of binding hold the organs in place? More importantly, is the bound tailbone being pulled down? The thing to remember is that we should have an L-shaped torso and it is this shape that we are trying to cultivate with the posture. This is why I sew all my pants very low in front and high in back, adding support toward tipping the torso into this position. You've been doing the posture long enough and have a good conceptual grasp of the dynamics, I think you will be able to tell if it is helpful or not.

What I think this binding would be great for is hysterectomized women. They tend to lose their lumbar curve over time as the pelvis migrates into a position that sort of locks the lower spine, hips and legs into a single "block." You can observe this yourself by watching women walk. In time as we learn more about this we will all be able to identify women who have had their uterus removed by the way their backsides move as one unit. It's a very distinctive look.

I'm glad you were given self instruction. I have a very jaundiced view of the entire notion of therapy and treatments. Not that we don't need them sometimes, but we really should be taught autonomy instead of relying on someone else to "fix" us when something goes wrong, coming in for appointments and then going back to our same old ways that produced the problem in the first place. The posture is a perfect case in point. We should have been taught this by orthopedists, gynecologists, osteopaths, physical therapists, chiropractors, rolfers, and myofascial workers. The reason nobody has brought this out in a big way before now is that our culture is geared toward the patient/therapist relationship and having someone else realign, readjust, repair, or relax us. With prolapse, only we can do the work.

Glad you're going to be in on the call. I'm on "chicken time", too and although I once lived in your state, I can never remember which time zone you're in!!

Have a great day,

Christine

Dear Christine;

Thank you for the answer on the band. I believe there will have to be changes even from within the alternative community once they learn about the connection between posture and prolapse. I still have some concern that any treatment that has me laying on my back with a pillow under my knees putting inward pressure on my abdominal area from around my pubic bone toward my belly button could possibly further compromise the facial tissues on the front of my vagina that help support my bladder or increase harmful pressures but I don't know if this is a valid concern or not. I really like the OCT who does the massage but I am still having concerns. I believe she will be open to change once she receives and reads your book. At this point I only know one thing and that is that I know the posture works and is helpful. Anything else I am kind of wary about. -Chris