Rectocele, diarrhea and spasms

Hi Gemommy

Sorry I cannot answer your specific questions. Just wanted to say that it is good to hear that you have had a positive change in bowel motion, even if it has been accompanied by diahorrea! I too think the diet change may to blame for that. Dietary changes are sometimes hard to get right, especially if you are amending two or aspects at the same time or the changes are drastic. It is hard to pin cause to effect. I would suggest diarying what you eat and how much, in the way of new foods, so your memory doesn't play tricks on you. Try not to change too much at once, and try not to change quantities too grossly. You may be just overloading your body with too much fibre too suddenly. The body will adapt biochemically to the new diet eventually.

When you are feeding grazing animals they sometimes get scours (diahorrea) when you put them in a different paddock with different species that will yield radically different protein, energy and fibre levels. The same happens with intensively reared livestock. It is best to change the diet slowly, from the old to the new formulation over a few days to allow the animals' digestive tract to adapt. I am sure we are no different.

Of course there are some foods like prunes, oranges, other unripe fruit high in pectin, figs etc that will give you a tummy ache, soften stool or even give you diahorrea, as well as the general fibre factor.

Using Wholewoman techniques is not an exact practice, nor is it a quick fix. It is truly wonderful when something intractible suddenly does the right thing, but it is the range of improvements of different aspects of our lives, ie posture, food, clothing, lifestyle, exercise that will work together to improve your POPs. There will always be eyebrow-raising successes and setbacks as well. It is the overall picture that is important, and that will keep all your organs intact and well positioned in the longer term.

Hope your progress keeps up and you are able to identify the diet habits that are helpful for you so you can kiss the diahorrea goodbye and end up with mostly comfortable and effortless bowel movements.

BTW, I remember hearing that vit C is different for all people and high doses cause diahorrea. You have to play around with the dosage and keep it just below the dose that creates diahorrea. Granolamom, did this come from you?

Cheers

Louise

I have been getting spasms since I had my baby 9 months ago. Sometimes they aren't too bad and sometimes they go way up deep. When I went to colorectal on Monday the enemas I had triggered 3 of them in the office. I also had one later that evening(and one before I went). For me it is a combination of tightening from hemroids and the levator being messed up by prolapse and birth trauma. The doctor said it might ease up with time and I am hopeful. I do know these spasms are made worse by stress(like worrying about going to colorectal). I manage them now with hot baths daily and if I have a super bad spasm that doesn't pass in 20-30 minutes I take 3 Motrin. The doctor said he could order some muscle relaxants for me, but that is not an option as I am nursing a baby.

With any luck this will not be an ongoing problem for you. It sure isn't any fun!

Hi,
I get these spasms as well. For me it is from chronic tension in the levator ani muscles (and others in my pelvic floor). I go to a physical therapist specially trained in pelvic pain conditions and that is how I found out exactly where the pain was coming from. That is also what was the most help for the pain. I can self treat now whenever I need. It used to be a chronic thing for me and now it is relatively rare. This, I'm sure, was caused by chronic constipation which lead to a rectocele.

I also get suppositories from a compounding pharmacy made with Baclofen and Ketamine to relax the spasms and help with pain. They are fantastic and give me no head change or any other kind of side effect. After taking them regularly to keep the pain away, I was able to reduce my usage and now only use them on occasion. Maybe you can ask your doctor about these.

I'm new here so I don't know your details, but it sounds like your rectocele definitely gives you some trouble. Lots of pain can cause you to clench your muscles without even realizing it, eventually leading to chronic tension and painful spasms. It's important to break that pain cycle before it gets worse. Hot baths are good, hot tea or anything that can help to calm your entire body.

I've tried a few different herbs but nothing could come close to those suppositories and the pain was so unbearable I finally gave in. Honestly, I didn't want to take the time trying different herbs, I just wanted relief... and fast.

Sorry if I've repeated anything you've already tried. If you have questions about anything I've mentioned please let me know.

Best,
Tiffany

Hi Tiffany

Your post has raised an important point for me.

Any foreign substance that we put into the body risks causing side effects and even long term damage. This can be food, pharmaceutical or recreational drugs, tobacco or naturopathic and other natural remedies. Most of them are not automatically bad. For instance there are some foods that nourish us, that can upset our gastrointestinal tract and alter our bodies in some way, eg the laxative foods like fibre, whole oranges, pectin in unripe fruit. Coffee and alcoholic drinks have an effect on the brain. Most in moderation are simply nourishing and pleasant to eat, only giving negative effects if we eat or drink too much.

I think it is the same with pharmaceutical drugs and natural remedies. At the right dosage they can both work wonders but be poisonous in large quantities. There are some, like some of the cortisones that are often badly-prescribed, have long term side effects, and while they are powerful and indispensible for some conditions are also prescribed freely for no apparent benefit for minor conditions, and often do not help at all, and create other problems.

With my natural approach to health I find that I do not want to use pharmaceutical drugs. I am also inclined to think that natural remedies are also a minefield. I have to fight feeling guilty for using pharmaceuticals, because my logical mind says it is not wrong to use them appropriately, but my emotional mind says they are poisonous, and that the giant pharmaceutical companies are evil.

Using pharmaceutical drugs is not *wrong*. It is great that you have found a combination that works for you. You say you "gave in". Pain is pain, and I think we need to be sensible about how much pain we can deal with, especially as you say, using the suppositories regularly to teach your muscles to relax, then easing up on the use of them once you got them re-educated.

Nobody wants to feel enslaved by any external treatment or drug, but sometimes it is entirely appropriate and works wonders when used for a full, but finite course of treatment, or may make a suffering life liveable when used in the longer term. The only trouble is that you need to have faith in your practitioner and give it a fair trial, which sometimes has risk attached. I am so glad you have found something that works, and you are so lucky to have a good pelvic pain practitioner.

Would you be prepared to say what city she is in (rather than giving specific details on the Forum)? Others may want to email you if they want to find out who she is and use her services.

Cheers

Louise

Louise,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

First I wanted to say that I fight the same guilt when using pharmaceuticals for the same reasons you have mentioned. Toxic substances and big pharma, to put it briefly.

It took me a number of years to find my urogynecologist. After going from doctor to doctor seeking help for bladder pain and eventually general pelvic pain I had just about given up. It was on a forum similar to this that I found my current doctor, who works closely with my physical therapist (same office) as well as with my compounding pharmacist who is very knowledgable about women's health. They are an amazing team!

They support my use of herbs and homeopathics for pain, and do not push Rx's on me like other doctors have attempted. They often refer their patients to an amazing acupuncturist (for those who are interested). They are the closest thing to 'integrative' that I have come across at a University Medical Center, or any of the other medical facilities I've been to. They are constantly striving to learn more about how to treat the varying pelvic pain conditions that so many of us suffer with. Can you tell I like them? :)

I will happily share their contact information. They are in Orange, California at UCI Women's Health Center. If anyone would like details please let me know. I'm not sure, off hand, if it's okay to post it here but I will if someone gives me the 'ok'.

Take care,
Tiffany

Thanks Tiffany

That's just the sort of info I hoped you would post. Now women who are interested can email you and ask for further details.

Cheers

Louise

I also get spasms peridically and cannot figure out why...
I have been to my physician and she suggested muscle relaxants, but since my spasms do not last longer than 30-40 minutes (sometimes 5-10 minutes) it didn't make sense to medicate. My spasms seem to somehow be related to my menstrual cycle and so I have an idea of when to expect it to happen.
I did have a colonoscopy to rule out anything nasty and nothing showed up,so I am just living with it.

If it lasts a long time I try to lie down until it passes. Someone suggested sitting on a tennis ball (kaismom?) and I have tried that and it does help somewhat.

~karrymae

you can google "trigger point therapy and get all the locations- or combo it with rectal pain.spasm. etc"
I believe very deeply in the wisdom of the body- and science proves these points exist. If you can find someone to work with you on your trigger point for pelvic pain, rectal spasms etc I think you will notice results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_point
Trigger points are described as hyperirritable spots in skeletal muscle that are associated with palpable nodules in taut bands of muscle fibers. Trigger point researchers believe that palpable nodules are small contraction knots and a common cause of pain. Compression of a trigger point may elicit local tenderness, referred pain, or local twitch response. The local twitch response is not the same as a muscle spasm. This is because a muscle spasm refers to the entire muscle entirely contracting whereas the local twitch response also refers to the entire muscle but only involves a small twitch, no contraction.
The trigger point model states that unexplained pain frequently radiates from these points of local tenderness to broader areas, sometimes distant from the trigger point itself. Practitioners claim to have identified reliable referred pain patterns, allowing practitioners to associate pain in one location with trigger points elsewhere. Many chiropractors and massage therapists find the model useful in practice, but the medical community at large has not embraced trigger point therapy. Although trigger points do appear to be an observable phenomenon with defined properties, there is a lack of a consistent methodology for diagnosing trigger points[1] and a dearth of theory explaining how trigger points arise and why they produce specific referred pain patterns.

http://www.triggerpointbook.com/abdomina.htm

I am always amazed and greteful for the insights and knowledge that gets shared here. I have documented that my "spasms" do happen around my menstrual cycle, so I have always thought it has something to do with my uterus being heavier and ends up touching something else..nerves, sigmoid colon,who knows???

Anyway I have never heard of "trigger points", but I have bookmarked the website and will look into this.

Thanks,

~karrymae