Is this prolapse?

Submitted by alcina on March 6, 2005 - 6:39pm
Body: 

Hi, ladies. I was attracted to this discussion group because I have some symptoms which I thought might indicate prolapse. Maybe some of you can advise me.

I'm in my early 50s, still menstruating, with two teenage kids. In recent months, my inner labia have begun protruding out between the outer labia. The sensitive membranes sometimes feel irritated because they chafe against my clothing and become dry from exposure to the air. I have no other symptoms.

Does anyone know what this is? Is it a sign of prolapse on the way? Or is it normal, like changes in our facial skin as we age?

Also, can the exercises and posture that Christine has developed help with this problem?

Thank you, Christine, for creating this web site where we can discuss topics like this!

Alci

Christine

March 7, 2005 - 9:16am

Dear Alci,

Having no clinical experience in this area, I can

alcina

March 14, 2005 - 9:27pm

Dear Christine and WW readers,

Although my condition seems different from what other contributors have described, I do fear that Christine is right -- something inside of me has prolapsed.

Have any of you out there experienced symptoms similar to mine? What was your diagnosis? Are the WW posture and exercises helping, and if so, how long did it take? Do you have any favorite exercises that are especially effective for this problem? Do you have any advice?

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and wisdom with me.

Alci

loralie1

March 24, 2005 - 7:44pm

Hi Alci,

I think that the symptoms you describe sound like what i see when I look in a mirror ... and I have been diagnosed with a bladder prolapse. As the bladder pushes its way down, exactly what you described is what is naturally happening (i think) ... different tissues and membrains, etc., are exposed that haven't been before. I think that the posture that Christine discusses is beneficial ... i have been working on it for a couple of months now. it makes a lot of sense ... it takes time to fully understand, i think. i read the book and watched the video ... and kept reading new descriptions from Christine here on this forum, and little by little i "got" it ... now i try to use the correct posture while sitting,walking, standing, running, riding in a car, etc. It is still too early for me to say if it "works" or reverses prolapse, but i already know it cannot hurt. It has already cured me of a sore tailbone and i think it has helped my lower back pain. structurally, it makes sense.
i hope this helps! i am going to make a post elsewhere on the forum about a visit today to a specialist ...
loralie

loralie1

March 24, 2005 - 7:46pm

alci,
i forgot to mention that i am about your age, with two nearly grown children myself.
loralie

alcina

March 25, 2005 - 10:13am

Dear Loralie,

Thank you so much for answering. It helps so much to compare notes with someone whose history (age, births, etc.) is similar.

I too was thinking it might be my bladder; but if so, wouldn't I have other accompanying symptoms, such as incontinence or difficulty voiding?

As I continue observing and analyzing, I've noticed pressure low in my vagina coming from the left side, causing the left labia (labium? my Latin's not so good) minora to sag more than the right. If the pressure were from the back, I'd suspect the rectum; from the front, the bladder. But from the left side? What organ is there?

Loralie, what do you do for soreness of the exposed tissues? I've started sitz baths with epsom salts, which give a lot of relief, but I wonder if there's anything else.

About a week ago, I started the exercises described in Christine's book. I already feel improved strength and vitality, both in the pelvic area and in general, but of course, it's too soon to expect a change in my specific symptom. (Christine, I do promise to report back on that over the coming weeks and months!)

While the exercises are easy to execute, cookbook style, the posture is quite another matter! I understand it intellectually, but it takes coordination and constant attention to get all the different body parts behaving the right way -- all at the same time! I agree that seeing it described in different ways gives me new perspectives on how to do it. I will keep trying!

Alci

fullofgrace

March 25, 2005 - 10:25am

Cystocele is not causing incontinence or voiding issues for me. :)

Christine

March 25, 2005 - 6:45pm

Alci...the vagina can become stretched from any of its attatchment points. Here's a quote from Nichols and Randall:

"The bladder itself...is not effectively suspended but is supported by the vagina and its attachments. The supports of the bladder causing cystocele are affected by damage to the vaginal wall itself, or the connective tissue to which the vagina is attached, or both."

This stretching can be from giving birth or from intraabdominal pressures literally blowing things out of alignment. We are not perfectly symmetrical beings (i.e. most people have one eye ball larger than the other, etc.) and prolapse can occur at any point or level within the genital hiatus....

alcina

March 26, 2005 - 11:01am

Hi Christine,

I assumed that prolapse involves an organ pusing into the vagina -- uterus, bladder, or rectum (or rarely the small intestine). Now, after reading your post, I'm wondering -- is it possible to have vaginal prolapse, all by itself? That is, if the vaginal wall is weak only on the side, then might only the adjacent muscle or connective tissue press into it? Would that be vaginal prolapse alone?

Thanks for clarifying this confusing topic.

Alci

loralie1

March 27, 2005 - 7:56pm

hi alci,

i also have no other sypmtoms of cystocele ... i.e. it is not causing incontinence for me, which is one big reason i began searching on line for ideas/solutions/information when a nurse practitioner told me my gyn could "fix me up" with bladder surgery "and by the way, it would be best to take the uterus too."

you asked what i'm doing for the reddness/soreness ... i, too, have tried sitz baths, which help. but here something else i wanted to tell you and that i want to tell Christine (Christine, are you listening?).

my gyn was concerned about the redness/leisons and suggested a biopsy. he wanted to put me to sleep and have a pathologist present, and if it showed any cancer or pre-cancer or dysplasia, he would "laser me." i didn't like the sounds of this and i went for a second opinion with a gyn-oncologist. she said it didn't look like cancer to her and that the redness/soreness is likely caused by my cystocele ... "exposing tissues that are not normally exposed" and pushing down on my vagina/vulva. the only way for her to know for sure is to take a biopsy, but my tissues are so thin, she said if she took a biopsy right now i would never heal. (ugh, and to think of what my gyn wanted to do). so she has put me on premarin cream for three weeks and thinks that may actually clear it up ... then no need for a biopsy, but she thinks it would then be time to think about what to do with my cystocele. that's when i said what i posted earlier about why i am reluctant to have surgery, because i know it often leads to more surgery ... and she said "the surgery doesn't always work" and i said i was trying postural changes and she said "that NEVER works." anyway, i value her opinion on this other issue and so i am hanging iin there for now, with no intention of signing up for surgery. Christine, my question is this: have you heard ot cystocele causing leisons/reddness? i also think it could be from my hormones being all out of wack ... which is why the premarian cream might help.
Sorry i got so long winded Alci ... i know this is all probably more than you wanted to know and doesn't answer your questions! i think that in order to know what is prolapsing for sure, you should see your doctor. Even if they give us advice we don't take, they can help us udnerstand what is going on in our bodies.
loralie

Christine

March 28, 2005 - 7:53am

Alci...I think it's possible to have a vaginal sidewall prolapse, but I'd be surprised if the rest of your pelvic structure was in top-knot shape...I agree with Loralie...go get a proper diagnosis. :-)

Loralie...
I think the best place to read about how completely inappropriate and dangerous Premarin is for the human female body is to read the Women

Christine

March 28, 2005 - 4:00pm

p.s...

The discomfort I deal with is an extremely delicate perineum where my 2X episiotomy scar is....I think the lavender is good for overall perineum issues, but don't have any conclusive data about that...

Christine

March 28, 2005 - 4:36pm

p.s.s....

I would never put anything on a protruding cervix....

Naomi

March 28, 2005 - 4:48pm

Hi Alci,

About two months ago I visited my gyn with a complaint much like yours. She said that my vagina's "coming down" (with no mention of other organs), gave me a pamphlet on Kegels, and said to come back in a year for my next annual.

Since then, I have read Christine's book and switched to her exercises and posture. (Kegels are such a bore, and I don't think they help.) Maybe my optimism is premature, but I do feel some improvement already. Alci, whether you see a doctor or not -- and I can understand why you might not -- do try Christine's ideas. You will not be sorry.

Good luck and good health to you...

Naomi

alcina

March 28, 2005 - 9:34pm

Thank you Loralie, Christine, and Naomi, for your replies.

The principle of "caveat emptor" applies as much to doctors as to anyone who has a product to sell. I won't go to a doctor unprepared. (And, if I prepare well enough, maybe I won't need the doctor.)

As a supplement to Christine's book, I just started reading "The Female Pelvis -- Anatomy and Exercises" by Blandine Calais-Germain. It's full of detailed anatomical illustrations and practical advice. (I wish I'd had this book before having my kids!) Christine, are you familiar with this book?

Alci

Christine

March 29, 2005 - 7:33am

Hi Alci,

Yes, I have The Female Pelvis and her earlier work, Anatomy of Movement. She

alcina

March 29, 2005 - 11:21am

Hi Christine,

I'm confused about your objection to the high tailbone: doesn't the ww posture place the tailbone a bit high? In fact, I thought that the tailbone appears low on page 14, in the sketch of the standing woman with the flat tummy.

Also -- I wonder whether the angle of the pelvis is exaggerated on pages 102-3 because the sketches illustrate an exercise to rotate the pelvis.

I do understand your disagreement with the author on episiotomy...

Alci

Christine

March 29, 2005 - 12:09pm

Alci

alcina

March 30, 2005 - 6:44pm

Hi Christine,

Now I understand. Yes, you are right about those drawings. Thanks for explaining.

>Don

Christine

March 31, 2005 - 10:40am

Alci

alcina

March 31, 2005 - 9:45pm

Christine,

What is the "auto-blocking mechanism?"

Thanks.

Alci

Christine

April 1, 2005 - 7:48am

In natural female anatomy, when we stand the upper 2/3 of the vagina bends back toward the sacrum and lies horizontally atop the rectum, which in turn lies on top of the pelvic floor. This closes off the genital hiatus, or split in the pelvic floor musculature, preventing our organs from falling through. Increases in intraabdominal pressure press the upper vagina down more forcefully over the hiatus, so the more pressure the better in normal anatomy. The posture we are working with here recreates these conditions by stretching the vagina and rectum up and back, while pushing the uterus and bladder down and forward over the pubic bone.

alcina

April 1, 2005 - 8:57am

Then would you say that the Calais-Germain drawings of pelvic organs are wrong? Although the rectum shows a slight change of direction just at the anus, the vagina and urethra appear as straight tubes. See Chapter Three, pages 44-61.

Alci

Christine

April 1, 2005 - 9:37am

She