Postparum Prolapse = Depression

i don't have time to write a full response now but just wanted to send hugs!! so sorry you are going through this. you have tons of healing yet to come - do not listen to OB. read the older posts re c-section, second pregnancy etc.

it gets better and you will be active again!!

phoebe

Hi BSMRunner

Take a deep breath right down into your belly and let it out gently. Now go on breathing normally. You have just had a very unpleasant surprise. (((Hugs))) I can understand your feeling like you are sliding down into depression, and losing so much of the life that meant so much to you. Prolapse can happen suddenly like that. Sometimes it happens very gradually. Often women have considerable POP and don't even know it, because you often don't notice it until it is pretty obvious.

You are also in the middle of a classical grief process. You know, the sadness, the bargaining, the blaming, the 'why me', the anger, the acceptance/resignation etc. You will sowly make your way through all this once you understand a bit more about how your body works, particularly postpartum.

Firstly, even at 7 months postpartum you are nowhere near as good as it gets. You have about another 12-18 months of reversion to go. It will still get better, much better.

Secondly, I see that you have been around for a few months. I hope you have been able to check out what others in your situation have said, and that you have checked out the FAQ's on the main site. I know that if you are feeling down that might not be easy, but it is a start to your learning.

Thirdly, learn about Wholewoman posture (FAQ's) and start practising it. Call back when you have given it a try and we can help you to fine tune it. Baby steps. You will, like all of us, experience temporary setbacks along the way, but there will be gradual,overall improvement.

Fourthly, buy the DVD and the book from the online store (link on homepage) so you have all the theory about pelvic anatomy that underpins the posture, and a workout that you can do to help your body along the way.

Fifthly, love your baby and keep nursing. I have been told by a lactation consultant that is no clinical evidence that weaning will improve your POP's. Yes, your vagina will be moister, but that is only part of the story. You can mimic that by using a vaginal moisturiser or lubricant on an everyday basis so the surfaces of your vagina can slide smoothly over each other, until your baby decides to wean. By then your vagina will be moister anyway.

Sixthly, be gentle on yourself. You sound like a very active woman. You might just need to back off on your expectations of yourself for a bit while you get this posture thing, diet and clothing sorted out, and work out how you can use it to enable you to take up again all or many of your active pursuits, which you will probably be able to do in time.

Take care. Get reading and call back.

Louise

Hi BMSrunner...

...and welcome to the almost-secret world of the deeper/sacred feminine!

You have received very fine responses, but I wanted to reinforce a couple of points. First of all, do you understand you are absorbing every molecule of the vaginal estrogen cream into your bloodstream? Is this really the kind of life-beginning you want for your little son? It is shocking that doctors give such poison to nursing women! But not surprising since estrogen is one of the few offerings from a medical system ill-equipped to treat female prolapse.

I think of you as the “classic” young, athletic, Western woman with prolapse and am hoping I can offer a couple of illustrations underscoring why this happens to so many of us. Estrogen has nothing to do with it. “You” (and I say this in a general way - since I really know nothing about you) have been set up for this for a very long time.

Take a look at this yoga video
to see what young women in our culture currently admire most in other women and what they are desperately trying to emulate.

A tall, slender, young woman with killer abs is certainly an amazing look. Unquestionably, there is *something there* to be admired and no doubt women like this have pushed the outer limits of female abdominal strength. I think we need a new term to define the “core”-strengthened female body, and perhaps “flexed” is most appropriate. Her entire body is built around spinal flexion and this is evident by the extreme flattening of her lumbar spine her rounded thoracic spine. There is no doubt she is an amazing gymnast. But let’s be clear. A performance-driven gymnast is what she really is. She is a woman who has taken a male form of exercise to its zenith and has the androgynous body to show for it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this - except her likely propensity for urinary incontinence, which the gynecologic literature states is several times higher in gymnasts than the general population. I would be astonished if she were not also susceptible to lower back pain and injury - particularly after heavy lifting. Functional SIJs rely on lumbar lordosis. The long, lean, flexed, boyish-girl is certainly a “look”, but is it one an entire culture of women should be emulating?

On the other hand, check out the way this dancer uses the natural placement of her pelvis. She is no more or less “endowed” than the yoga woman, but rather years of practice have shaped both bodies respectively. Which woman might have a worse chance of carrying and birthing a baby without risk of her organs being flexed to the back? The answer: Stick Woman.

The same is true for women healing from prolapse. Reinstate the natural shape of your spine and you will gain greater results. It may take years - we really don’t know - and we don’t know the level to which your prolapse will be reduced. But whatever it finally is - that is what you will have to work with. Please understand that the post-surgical woman (and I realize there’s nothing in your post indicating you are contemplating surgery - but just for emphasis) *always* has a bulge! The only difference is that hers are far more serious and far more difficult to reduce by returning to her natural pelvic organ support system. Many, many women in just your position describe almost total reversal and the ability to do whatever they want to do. Have faith in the deep intelligence of your body.

Wishing you well,

Christine

I don't have much time right now so didnt read the responses yet, but had to respond

I found my cystocele about the same age as you but not immediately pp (my then youngest was 18 mo)
I am also a PT and this will work for you. you'll be able to get a good grasp on the posture recommended here, but you might find you need to open your mind to learning the anatomy from a completely different perspective.

I will get back to your post again when I have more time but here's some things you should know:

I have had another baby. and I'm pg again. am no worse off for it
sex is fine with prolapse
this IS a real loss, allow yourself to grieve
many of us stabilized and/or reversed our prolapses with this program
you are not the first runner here
breastfeeding has NOTHING to do with your recovery. the estrogen thing makes very little sense. prolapse is an orthopedic problem, not one of estrogen deficiency. so bf all you like.
counseling is a good idea, depression is awful. especially pp (btdt). but know that YOU WILL become an expert on your pelvic situation. YOU WILL learn how to work with this to get back to living your life. and that this is actually somewhat empowering.
healing pp takes a long time. for sure up to a year, but I kept seeing more postive results even up to two years. and then got pg again, so who knows???

forget worrying about ligamentous injuries for a minute and think about this:
if you stand in the WW posture (which very quickly and not fully described here) is with an anterior pelvic tilt, your pelvic organs should be sitting above the pubic symphysis and not over your vaginal opening. so nothing falls out. in addition, when in posture, the force of breath pins the uterus and bladder against the low anterior abdominal wall so they don't move anywhere.
once you've prolapsed of course, things like fascia, ligaments, muscle are no longer in optimal relationships so it takes time to reshape. I honestly don't know if fascia can shrink back like an overstretched muscle but even so, teh slack can be redistributed so it is more supportive where you need it.
the crux of this isn't to wait around for ligaments to heal. you can support your organs through posture

kids calling me
hang in there

Hi BSMrunner, I read your post and I started crying (again). I also was the most active person I knew, I run, backpack, ski (all kinds), mountain bike, kayak, play ultimate, swim, etc. I have been so tough & strong my whole life - prolapse is crippling me emotionally and physically. I'm a Ph.D. biologist with a strong background in anatomy & physiology. I discovered (I thought) I had a stage 2-3 uterine prolapse, probably with a cystocele 10 months post-partum. The mechanism of injury was the vaginal birth of my first (& only) 8.75 lb, 21.5", 98 percentile head-circumference kid. The labor was awesome/magical, the pushing was awesome, we could see his head after two rounds, then he got stuck, his heart decelerated & I got a huge episiotomy (@#!#) & a vacuum delivery (@#!#). When I first discovered the prolapse, I told the nurse (the only health care professional in the remote town we lived in) my concern & I asked her why no one had caught it in my annual exam. She said, "oh, things shift around after birth, everyone has a different baseline. Don't worry, you'll be fine. Keep doing your Kegel's they're important." I thought, "okay I am just healing; I'll keep doing my Kegel's." I kept running & leaking everywhere. Sometimes I felt like I would poop in my pants & I would have to stop & walk. Sex? Are you kidding? My husband bumping into my cervix is not fun - position doesn't seem to help. Also I wonder, will him ramming into my vagina be bad for my weak pelvic floor? Also, at this point I feel betrayed by my own body & I don't feel like being touched. I am 16 months post-partum & I finally got to see an OB (I moved to a town) & she confirmed I have a stage 2-3 uterine prolapse, cystocele and rectocele. I have been crying for weeks now. I can't do any of the things I used to do (read above) & I feel like I have died. I am totally depressed. I've read Christine's book. I took it to my OB & she said, "I think she [Christine] has some good points." That being said, my OB thinks I have nerve damage (I couldn't even squeeze down on my OB's finger in my vagina during my exam, my episiotomy scar is not even tender). She thinks "e-stim" would help regrow nerves & increase nerve firing and muscle development in the area. My OB said my perineal body is pretty intact; she thinks my episiotomy repair was structurally "fine." I know Christine is not a fan, but I am up for trying e-stim. I have been thinking maybe I'll use a pessary for "short periods only" (Christine says they can cause problems so I don't want to depend on one all the time) to run & be super-active; I'll do PT & e-stim; I'll do Christine's exercise program. Is WW an all or nothing program though - the exercise, the diet, the clothes? Realistically, I can & will do the exercises. However, I can't change my whole wardrobe (I can't afford it & I don't know how nor do I have the time to learn how to sew well enough to make my own clothes). Realistically, I don't think I can radically change my diet. I had to do it once for a medical reasons & it was so hard to make sure every "problem" ingredient wasn't in the food, I just didn't eat much & I lost 10 pounds off my already skinny frame. I'll will increase my fiber & I don't/won't ever strain on the toilet again. I have to sit a lot at work - is sitting on a "back chair" (of 1980's fame) better? Can I use "Mackenzie" rolls to support my lumbar curve in a regular chair? I really want to believe women who say WW exercises work. I am really trying to believe my body is my ally & I will overcome, but I am having a really hard time. Why, during pregnancy, do we not get more information about what we can do during pregnancy, delivery and afterwards about protecting our pelvic floors? BSM keep me posted on your journey... report your progress (or not), your activity level & what is working best for you. Maybe that will give the rest of us super active gals hope. I'll do the same. And Christine.... thank you.

Hi Active and welcome.

Some quick(?) answers.

Yes, I agree that something like e-stim is worth trying. If it doesn't work, what can you lose? I had something similar after my second birth. It worked to get the nerves working again, so I could at least get the muscles moving, then I could exercise them. I am now 56, and doing fine. It wasn't a problem after my third baby. I had a bit epi, delivery on my back, and forceps with my first. Yuk! I was fine after that too, ie I had normal pelvic floor muscle movement. Go for it. I think Christine's point is that e-stim is often used to strengthen and exercise muscles. (You would be doing it to re-establish nerve pathways.). Once you get the muscles working again, WW posture will have them working with everyday movement, so you don't need to exercise them artificially. I certainly don't, and mine are pretty good.

Yes, the nurse was right. Recovery from birth takes up to 2 years. My experience is that I was experiencing subtle, positive changes for at least 5 years after the birth of my third and youngest child, though most of the reversion happened in the first 12 months.

Your body is now 'officially' injured. Would you keep running if another part of your body was injured? No, you would stop, get some therapy to get the injury recovered, and support it if necessary for future exercise. Then you would gradually build up the load on it again, and see what it would do. If you couldnl't keep up that form of sport, you would probably find another one that would not aggravate the injury. I think physical activity is for the brain as much as for the body.

So I would think that easing up on all sports that have an element of jarring would be a positive first step. Get your posture organised and see if you can get some progress with everyday activities before you try it with physical exercise that doesn't involve jarring. You might have to adapt your style a bit but I know you will want to, if you want to keep up the sport.

Likewise with your wardrobe. Once you go through all your clothes and only wear the ones that are supportive of WW posture you will feel the benefits. Going back to clothes that are tight around the abdomen will not feel as comfortable. The choice is yours. We all have to buy new clothes occasionally. When you buy new ones, just buy the right sort. Stretchy fabrics and elastic waists or low riders seem to be the key for me. I now wear clothes that hug my body more than I ever used to. I always used to be uncomfortable with the femaleness of my shape and used to wear 'potato sacks'. Ooooo no! I am a princess now, an oldie, but a goodie, and very happy that way.

Re DH bumping into your cervix, no that is not fun! Have a look at positions for coitus. I suggest that you get into bed on all fours with a relaxed, concave spine. Do some hip circles and pelvic tilts and get your pelvic are mobilised. That will help your uterus and cervix to move deep into your body before you lie down. with coitus, consider getting on top so you can keep a good lumbar curve, and relax your abdomen, and breathe into it. Yes, his penis will lengthen your vagina further. I don't know what a Mackenzie roll is, but a pillow under your sacrum might also help to maintain your lumbar curve when on your back. Also, grabbing the bed head, arms above head, will reinforce your lumbar curve. Refer to Saving the Whole Woman, to find out why. Keeping your lumbar curve and allowing your pelvis to tilt fowards increases the size of the opening where your pelvic muscles are. That means that these muscles are stretched tighter. This means more contact during coitus. We are a saucy lot here! Try a pillow under your tummy/hips when on your tummy. There are lots of things you can do, but if you get a copy of Saving the Whole Woman you will grow to understand more about how your body works, so you can work out your own solutions.

No, Wholewoman techniques are not all or nothing. Make a start, then keep adding things until you re happy with the progress you are getting.

Re chairs, I spend a lot of time at my computer, and have not used a 'chair' for years. It is too easy to slouch in a chair. I use an adjustable height stool I made out of the pedestal of an old office chair with a piece of heavy ply and a cushion on the top. I could have bought one. So I have to support my own spine. I figure that if it is OK for old Australian aboriginal women to sit on the ground under trees with their legs out front and their backs straight, it is good enough for me. God gave me a spine and muscles for a reason. If you don't use it, you lose it. WW posture sitting is so much easier if you don't lean back. I often sit bolt upright on chairs elsewhere, on the edge if necessary, so a seat that slopes backwards doesn't make me lean back. I have big cushions in our comfy lounge chairs that I stuff down behind my lumbar curve to keep it forwards. Of I just lie down.

I don't want to seem harsh but is pointless saying that you don't want to do this or that. Either you want to be able to manage this POP without surgery or you don't. If you want to manage it yourself you just have to make the changes. If you don't want to make the changes to see what you can do, then you might have to rethink your decision to manage it yourself. Sorry, but that is how it is.

I can understand your not wanting to be touched. You feel injured and vulnerable and have had to come to grips with an unpalatable reality. It is natural. It is a whole grief process. You are not your POPs, and POP will not kill you. But it might take a few months to get some progress. Now, chin up, wipe the tears, and get on with your life, sex included! (((active)))

:-)

Cheers

louise

bsmrunner, it is devastating - no way around it. part of the process is grieving. And, you have everything you need to live well and beyond with this condition. I, too, was devastated after coming here 4 years ago, newly pp with my youngest child. I am now more active, in better shape, more empowered and not at all limited by this. At the time, I was afraid to walk too far.

Hi Louise,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate the time you took to write it & the thoughts behind it. Your thoughts & tips were/are helpful. I bought the book, baton & DVD. I'm off to start my journey.

Thank you,

active

I want to let you know that you can return to your former level of fitness!!! So get comfortable with your body in the posture- then get back to your activities. Once you have been practicing WW posture for a while you will know how far you can push it with out having any change in your pops and just how far you can push it to have small change that will revert back to baseline in the morning. I bet you would like nauli.
and about the sex- how to say this....some women have large partners that hit the cervix every time no matter what the position- I know it can be uncomfortable- but it is not always uncomfortable (can even be a really nice sensation) and one of the great benefits of having a mobile vagina. In fact many women report an improvement in prolapse symptoms after having sex. Sex will tone your vagina- the increased blood flow is very good for the tissues there- the increased lubrication is good for ya too.
also- you may want to look over your post and take out the word 'can't' and replace it with a word that leaves open the possibility. I hear you when you say it is challenging to change your eating- but it is also a wonderful amazing process. It can be fun to learn new information about food- about how food can heal your body- to think of food in a new light- to think of food as good medicine that will keep your body healthy.
Every time you hear yourself laying a condition down upon yourself stop and change the way you are thinking- open the statement up to possibility.

Hey Active

Alemama is absolutely right about making the possibility of success out of "cant's". when I think about it, all of the activities you have listed at the top of your post are "I can participate/compete/succeed" statements. What happened??? You are still the same person. This negative, frustrating time too will pass. I'm glad you are realistic enough to get counselling. Hope you go well with it. You are so positive!

The leopard does not change its spots; it merely displays seasonal variations. (Louise's embellishment of an old saying for the purposes of explaining why people don't really change in the long term)

(((active)))

Louise