One positive - but, brings questions with it.

Submitted by nikki4444 on November 22, 2009 - 8:39pm
Body: 

To all you seasoned POP handlers out there...I have a question. First, let me tell you I had a bit of a success the other day in hopefully saving a dear friend from a "rectocele repair" surgery. She has had nothing but problems with the bladder sling they put in her a little over a year ago and was going in to get it out. I convinced her to see a urogynecologist instead of her regular gynecologist. The urogyn wanted to also repair her rectocele which I told her NOT to let her do. She has little to no symptoms with the rectocele so why touch it? She decided to see her trusted gynecologist just to get her opinion one last time and she concurred with me - don't touch something that has no symptoms with such an unsuccessful surgery. (My friend is a young 37). I also gave her my copy of "Saving the Whole Woman" and told her many of the tips I've gleaned from here (posture, positioning for coughs, etc.)

Now, she discussed my situation with her gynecologist as my rectocele is symptomatic in that I have to manually push out the stool about once or twice a week, and at the end of almost every day I feel as though I am all "bound up" in there. I would love to go poop in the evening to relieve that feeling but know if I even try it would require manually helping it along. Ugh. So, I usually take a magnesium capsule and probiotic capsule, go to bed early an am relieved by morning. Her gynecologist said that I must get in to get it repaired since I am already to the stage of having to help it along that it will only get worse and will make it more difficult to repair and the repair to hold. She said the longer I wait now the thinner and thinner my tissues are getting which is causing more damage than the repair would. I so hope this isn't true. Is it? Help...

I don't know why my situation has gotten worse over the last 3 years since I found it. I eat rather well (not perfect, but good), avoid constipation like crazy (sometimes it just happens though - but never rock solid). I do the posture. I walk. I'm now doing the exercises. I don't know. I hate the evenings anymore. I used to be a night owl and now I just want to go to bed around 7pm to avoid the feeling.

But, back to the doctor's opinion....she is misinformed - right?

Also, I haven't been to a doctor about this in well over a year. After all, I figure they would just push surgery at me and I want it fixed, but know there is no easy fix, so I don't even want to see them. But, I'm going to a midwife in a few weeks for my annual exam. Never been to a midwife - hope she is a more conservative (not push medical interventions) type.

Thanks my friends!

Christine

November 22, 2009 - 11:59pm

Hi Nikki,

I’m sorry to hear that your symptoms continue to give you so much trouble. Rectocele can take a long time to improve. I know that you’re doing your very best to nurture yourself back to health.

I, too, thought I was doing as much to stay healthy as possible - until menopause arrived and I developed a serious inflammatory disease. It took three years of intense experimentation and study before I was able to bring my symptoms under control. I tell you this only to illustrate that sometimes we just don’t have the awareness we need. Symptoms are the only things the body has to inform us of imbalance. I believe you will be able to improve your rectocele symptoms with time, patience, and awareness.

The best I can suggest regarding what the gynecologist said is to get other medical opinions. This is a common trump card played by pelvic surgeons and there really is no way to refute or challenge it. We don’t have the data yet and neither do they. I can’t offer more than I did in my book - scores of citations from peer-reviewed journals illustrating that rectocele repair is fraught with failure. You have the support of all of us here, Nikki, but in the final analysis only you can decide what is best for you.

After a dozen or so years of maintaining a primarily vegan diet, I am discovering the incredible nature of raw cow’s milk. This weekend I turned 2 gallons of milk into 1/2 pound of butter, 1 1/2 gallons of yogurt, and a 1/2 gallon of buttermilk. I have sourdough bread rising in the kitchen and barley grass growing nearby. I imagine my whole house containing a cloud of happy wild yeast and lactobaccilus that are regularly cycled through these foods. My house is a microclimate and ecosystem that I am part of more deeply than ever before.

The local milk I buy is from non-pregnant, grass-fed cows and I am beginning to understand that this is the HRT women in the United States have not had access to for 100 years due to mandatory pasteurization. We are told that wheat and dairy are poisonous to our health, which I believe is true - only because we have lost touch with the real nature of these foods, along side which much of humanity developed. Raw yogurt is woman-food, I have no doubt.

Anyway, this is just to give you an idea of the deeper levels of health available to us. So much has been taken away, Nikki, and women continue to be cheap, abundant fodder that feeds a huge, blind industrial-medical complex. It was wrong from the time of the first man-midwives and the level of wrong simply increases exponentially through the decades. Yet, I believe we are witnessing the dawn of the real golden age of discovery - women finding our way out of the machine and back to the wholeness of our true nature.

Will someone please send that ignorant gynecologist to WW.

Christine

nikki4444

November 23, 2009 - 3:15pm

Christine:

Thank you so much for personally responding to me. I think one thing that hasn't helped my healing at all is stress. I am a type-A personality as it is and I'm married to not only a doctor, but a surgeon. I'm sure you in all your work as a nurse and studying on this problem can picture the typical surgeon...and mine is all that and then some. To say that I have little support at home is an understatement. I feel very very alone in this (aside from you wonderful gals). My home life is not good. If I didn't have POP I would have divorced my dh years ago. I just don't know if I'm strong enough to fight him and POP at the same time.

I wish I could just bottle all your knowledge up and incorporate it immediately. Thank you so much for your book and work. I have followed closely all the developments on here over the past 3+ years. I know of your battles with the inflamatory process. I want to avoid that. I want to incorporate all your wonderful teachings. I want to live on some land, have my own chickens, a huge organic garden, play in the sun with my little ones, make a sand path to stretch my toes in...I want it all! But, I am a product of society and am making the changes I can. No more soda for me at all. Last night I made a great little batch of toasted organic acorn squash seeds with garlic. YUM! I posture it up like crazy. The other day someone asked me if I studied dance since I didn't lean back in my chair during the whole 2 hour conference! I thought to myself "No, if only you knew about my situation...if only you knew" but replied with "Thank you - I work really hard at it".

My kids think I'm crazy when I buy the wheatgrass shots at WholeFoods. No, they don't taste as good as Diet Coke, but they aren't terrible either!

I'm learning and growing. Thank you for your support. No surgery for me yet even though my whole environment (mother, sister, husband, friends say "just get it fixed"). I know better...thanks to you. I will continue to strive to learn to live well with prolapse.

louiseds

November 24, 2009 - 9:08am

Hi Nikki

Yes, your gyn is ignorant. It sounds like he is saying that if you get your rectocele 'fixed' you won't experience the thinning of tissues that comes with menopause! Wha???

Your story could be mine. I left. We got a miracle. I moved back. It is better. However, fighting for what you believe can be debilitating, especially when it is your body. I was first diagnosed about 5 years ago, about the time I found this site. Yes, I was supposed to have the hysterectomy, the rectocele fixed and my bladder fixed up, and yes, I was told to get it done sooner rather than later, cos if I left it more than a year it would be much more complicated surgery. I am still in one piece. Menopause seems to have come and gone. I do a lot of things differently these days, but I do just as much heavy stuff, and I don't piss myself when I run anymore.

The good thing is that you don't really have to fight POP. It is more a matter of allowing your body to support your organs as they are supposed to be supported, so you can stop fighting. Your guts will thank you. Your posture will become less defensive. You will begin to trust your body again.

If your family members give you a hard time, let them know that discussion is closed for now, and that you will ask their advice when you are ready. If they continue to brow-beat you, just shrug and walk out of the room. If that means that they have to cook their own meal, so be it. You just have to be honest with them. You need to be kind to yourself.

Oooo, it must have been lovely getting the compliment about your 'dancer's' posture at the conference!!!

Cheers

Louise

Christine

November 25, 2009 - 11:30pm

Your words took my breath away and all we can do is sympathize and pray for your happiness and well-being. Many of our members who initially felt broken have gone on to not only heal from prolapse, but also enter into new, happy relationships. This is no comment on your marriage, but rather inspiration to create the life you want regardless of prolapse.

Sending love and light your way, whole woman!

Christine

kiki

November 26, 2009 - 3:13pm

Oh Nikki, huge sympathies. it's so hard when people start telling us just "how bad" it could get. what's their problem???? so not helful!

I'm in the UK, and it's so different for me. When I first saw the doctor with a stage 3 rect / cyst, they said it would get so much better, don't even think about surgery. the surgeon said i was better living with it if i could. the physio said don't worry, you'll be fine...
gyns now look and say "oh that's mild, no problem"
i won't say it's asymptomatic. I have many of the same problems as you. i guess i just don't worry about it too much. i pee more than i'd like, and i have to splint or support my perineum on the side maybe half the time (things seem to kink in strange directions), especially as i am very fissure prone. i don't go to the bathroom in the evening all the time which = more likely to get fissures... annoying!
so, not fun. but, no one said i should worry and i just don't. i wish it was different, but it is what it is so i get on with it. it's never occurred to me that i should have surgery, especially as my physio said even with rectocele surgery these problems probably wouldn't be fixed...

so, the way forward? i'm working hard on the anti inflammatory diet which has helped my bladder a lot--much less peeing.
just this rectocele...must start back with that nauli and firebreathing and see if that can help. i do lots, but not nearly what i could i know. but that gives me hope--so much more potential for healing!

sorry, rambling on, but hope there's some reassurances in there somewhere...
hugs to you!!!
Kiki

nikki4444

December 2, 2009 - 10:36am

Thanks so much Louise, Christine and Kiki. I appreciate each of your responses more than you know. I love coming on here and reading Louise's posts - they always inject some humor into a very devestating problem. And, Kiki - I found a lot of reassurance in your post. Thank you. Christine - your response made me cry in a good way. Can I come get a hug and just live with you for a week? :-)(i'm just kidding - maybe).

I now talk about this to practically any female - esp. those who have had children. Just trying to help them prevent any problems in their future. God works everything for good. Thank you again.