Newbee in Australia

Hi Michelle

Sorry to hear that you have discovered POP, but you have discovered Wholewoman at the right time, before going off to the Gyn. This is what happened to me over five years ago. The Gyn was slightly amused but didn't want to know about Wholewoman. Ya get used to that. I am still in one piece and going great guns.

Be prepared for big changes in the way you do things so you can conserve the pelvic structure you have left. It is not so hard to get the hang of, as long as you realise that it may take some weeks or months to see real benefit.

Go visit the FAQ's on the main website and have a search with the Forum Search box for relevant keywords. There is a wealth of info from other ordinary women like you and me. Then come back and join the discussion.

Improve your posture, wear non-compressing clothing over your belly, don't strain on the toilet, and encourage your toddler to climb up himself, or get down to him. Keep your stools soft with attention to diet, and exercise appropriately. See, I told you there would be a few changes, but it works.

Catchya later

Louise

Hi Michelle,
I'm in Australia too (Victoria) although I'm English, my husband is Australian.

My story is pretty similar to yours although my birth experience wasn't quite so extreme, but there was prolonged pushing, episiotomy and ventuese.
My physio referred me to the doctor to then get a referral for a gynie to fit a pessary. This was after I ahd initially been declared symptom free by the same physio 3 months earlier (it's a long story). Anyway, the doctor said the same to me, that I didn't need a pessary, and that I would just have everything hitched up when I finish having kids. She was quite matter of fact about the fact it would happen one day, but in the mean time she is quite supportive of WW posture.

I'm new to all of this too, all we can do is try, and hopefully things will get better for us. I'm still getting my head round the idea that I can't make this eventually go away, I've never had to learn to live with anything before, and it's weird getting used to something so deeply personal.

Anyway, I just wanted to say because your story struck a cord with me. Good Luck!
Emma

I love how doctors always say this. Go have your babies, and then we'll stitch and hitch us up. Okay, I don't really love it... It's like then you won't need your body anymore! But what about the love making days? What about the wanting to have our bodies work as they are meant to days?
but at least if they say that, they offer a breathing space of no pressure to go find other alternatives. And here you are!!!
I'd be surprised if, after really getting WW posture, doing the breathings & excercises, taking on recommendations about diet etc, you aren't in a place where you don't even feel like you need to go visit the doctor again about this. Post birth wow, were my pop bad. Now three years on, they are so mild i don't notice them most of the time.
so things can change a ton...
let us know how you are getting along and ask away as you have questions!!!
Kiki

That is exactly right about doctors, it makes me feel like a brood mare! I just makes me wonder how bad they think it will get before surgery? I mean, without following the guidelines set out by Christine (my saviour in all this) and the lifestyle tips by you ladies (my other saviours), exactly how bad would my prolapse be by the time THEY decided surgery was necessary? Or is that all part of the medical myth, that this is a degenerative disease that will just get worse and worse until the men in white coats step in and make it all better for us?
I am trying to use the posture, although I do find I tend to slouch my chest forward abit. I think it's because I'm still breastfeeding my 16 month old, so I have really big boobs, which I am definitely not used to! So, I think I slouch to try and minimise the forward thrust of my bazookas! I feel quite self conscious of this enormous bust in peoples' faces. (but maybe they like it?!)
What I'm finding hard to deal with is good days/bad days. I'll have a good day, and get really positive, and then have a bad day (like today) and it really brings me back down. I've never had something wrong with me that wouldn't go away. I'm healthy, I'm in the right weight bracket, I don't smoke, I eat well and I exercise. So it makes me really sad that I feel broken. I also always thought I was really in touch with my body, and looked after it well. What a surprise to find out the exercises I was doing to make my body better were actually making it worse. My husband thinks we should get a second medical opinion because of this up and down in symptoms, I think he too is hoping that if we find the right treatment/doctor/whatever that it will go away. Very hard for my man to accept his perfect (!) partner is not perfect anymore. But, as I understand it, good days/bad days are the way it will go on from now. I do know that yesterday I hoovered the whole house, then took my 10 kilo toddler for a walk in a sling/chair thing that wraps around my waist. I did these things because I was having a good day, and thought it was all getting better! Will I never learn?!
So, no questions, I just needed a rant! Thanks!

Don't worry, Emma. DH is not perfect either, though his Mum would probably disagree. Perfection is a heavy load to carry. So much self-absorbed maintenance! Your body will recover more and more. Your large breasts might be contributing to the situation. They will be lighter when you stop breastfeeding, but I wouldn't wean to make it happen. I am sure DH loves them, and your baby will always love boobs.

It is quite interesting when other women's boobs become more interesting than one's own! I thought when my 10 year old son used to still like using mine as a pillow, that it would never happen, but it did. I think he will always be a tits man. His current girlfriend has Boobs to die for!!!

Hey, wear them proudly. They are doing their job well. I have a woman in my bellydance class with the most amazing big boobs. They used to cause her a lot of discomfort. Two years after first meeting her, I have noticed that her body has changed greatly. I think she has learned more mid and upper spine mobility. She no longer holds her shoulders tensed and back. She just looks so much more comfortable now. She may have been still lactating when I first met her. Her little boy is now about four.

I think you are right. Bad days good days will be the go for a while, until your toddler can climb better, and you get your body back. Try and stick your butt out when you lift, and never pick up your toddler when she is a long way out front. Always do it from close up.

L

yes, most of us have good days and bad days. the good news is that after a while the good days far outnumber the bad, adn sometimes I do make the decision to 'overdo it' and just take it easy the next day and double up on the nauli or add some plies to my diet.
and thats ok.
but I can relate to the trouble with bf boobs and posture. I find it much more difficult to get into/stay in posture with these larger-than-normal boobs (and they aren't even that large really, just not what I'm used to carrying around). you do what you can, and as louise said, enjoy 'em while you have 'em (well, she didn't say it exactly that way, but you know..). I understand the urgency to fix this prolapse, but now that I've been dealing with this for a few years the urgency has gone. so now I know that the big boob phase will pass and I have all the time in the world to perfect my posture. don't get me wrong, I work on my posture all the time and strive to stay pulled up as often as possible, but real life needs to be lived too. so there's a balance.
this POP was my first experience in feeling broken too. I, too, am of healthy weight and habit and always thought I was taking pretty good care of my body. hit me really hard when I found my cystocele. I went through the whole 'but I'm too young!' and 'why me??' phase and came out the other side pretty much ok. you will too. ((((((hugs))))))

Thanks all for your words of advice and support. This forum has been an absolute lifeline. I've decided I need to chill out about the whole thing too. The fear of the POP is destroying my quality of life far more quickly than the POP itself. So, I will just have to learn to live with it, I can't hate my body because it gave me my beautiful daughter, and will hopefully do so again.

Thanks again, don't know what I would without you all.

Hi Cararosesmum. The worry is the pits, isn't it? You are right, that's probably far worse than the POP itself. I think it will take time to learn how to manage the symptoms, but this forum is a great way to get motivated, isn't it? Good luck with your healing too. Tobia48

I found doing some meditative breathings really good. There's also a strange tapping thing called EFT, but it's a bit out there (but it works for both physical things like a head ache, and emotional things like worry). if you want to know more there is a thread on EFT if you search...but it is, I will say, a bit out there (need some good alien music there)

but yes, the worry gets worse than the POP! I decided I would not check all the time, and that helped. and then slowly just got on with it. I still worry some if i overdo it, but not so much. I know it will right itself as gmom says. and it all just takes time...

btw, i agree--wear those boobs with pride!!! i miss mine...never to return again. i loved the months when i lost all the baby weight and had a chest--fabulous! DH rather liked it too... ;-) so enjoy because before we know it, they are done feeding even if you feed for a few years--those days go so fast!!!

the seat thing (hippy chick?). i wondered how those would work in the posture. let us know what you think. i worry that you are still throwing one hip out and it's all a bit funny, but it could also work really well. I don't carry my little one that much--luckily he just loves to walk and run and ride his bike, and if we are out for the day i have a fabulous light weight three wheel buggy that is nothing to push even with a three year old in it, but weighs nothing to lift. that has been a saviour.

take care of yourself and keep talking and ranting and shouting and singing!!! We are hear to listen
Kiki

Hi Tobia

You will slowly get to know the Members who make these WW adjustments, and see that we all started off worrying our little butts off. However, if you stick to it, and learn all you can, the fear of the unknown (and that is all it is) will slowly evaporate until you realise that you are not worried or scared any more. We can't all be liars, eh? Reaching that point is the key to freedom.

Louise

Louise...about the worry...thanks...but sometimes it's easier said than done. All I know is that it helps so very much to hear what others say on this forum. I really appreciate it! Tobia48

Tobia, I agree that it *is* easier said than done! It is not so much that you need to actively 'not worry'. That is a path to frustration, and not a very constructive path at that. Seeking knowledge, and practice, listening to what your body tells you, and fighting the urge to self-examine continually, are the things that will get you on the path to losing your fear. You just kind of wake up one day and realise that you are not really that worried about it anymore. Losing the worry is a passive result of the hard work you do in familiarising yourself with POP, confronting it and stripping away its hold on you, layer by layer. It just happens. I do not expect you to understand that right now, but you will later on when it happens.

L :-)

Hi Michelle,

I am also new and in Sydney - I just posted an introductory thread here a few days ago!
I also had a prolapse at the age of 33 after the birth of my first (and only) child. Your story sounds amazingly similar - prolonged 2nd stage, in my case coached. ending in exhaustion, a ventouse and an episiotomy. I don't know whether the damage was done with the ventouse and the episiotomy or the 2 hrs of intense coached pushing, or the combination. Anyway...

For me it really is quite mild now and my concern is that my recovery has petered out. I want to be able to run and jump and belly laugh and dance again without having to think about leakage. I also want to recover enough before I think about another child. I'm here to see if the WW posture and exercises can help me get to where just normal PP recovery and pelvic floor exercises haven't been able to take me. I've only been doing it for a few weeks but I think it might be already making a change! At least, it seems as if my cervix has moved up...even though I didn't even really identify as having a Uterine prolapse, just the cystocele....but I think it was quite a lot lower than before the birth of DD.

Interestingly, a good friend of mine had a prolapse at 37 after 2 kids, and was advised to have a hysterectomy. She waited, and in the meantime took up ballet a few times a week just as an interest....after about 6 months her prolapse was giving her so little trouble she gave up on the idea of surgery. She knew nothing about WW posture but just seems to have accidentally found the best way to deal with it.

Yep. so true. I need to stop constantly checking all my "naughty" bits. I am actually doing a bit better at that. I am sure it will take time. Thanks as always for your wisdom. Tobia48

Hi Smu

Does your friend know about Wholewoman now? It would be interesting to hear from her. Ballet (done the right way) is an integral part of Wholewoman. There is an extensive ballet workout in Saving the Whole Woman second edition!

Louise

Hi Louise,

As far as I know she doesn't know about whole woman. At least we've never discussed it, and its not exactly common knowledge. In fact, I think she thinks she improved because of some yoga she was doing, but I think its more likely the ballet. I have the DVD (christmas present to myself!) so I understand the relevance of ballet now. I actually went to a class myself a few weeks ago because I thought it might help, given the information about whole woman... but as it turns out the 'culture' of classical ballet is not really my thing. It was quite funny in a way, after all I'm 36 and not exactly a candidate for a place in Australian ballet! But I might try flamenco, that seems to have a similar posture and lots of arm lifts...

Hey Michelle, How did your appointment go?

I hear you; the shipping is insane to get the book and DVD to Australia. I have borrowed a copy of both from NSW, which I have to send back soon, but will have a friend who is visiting the US bring back both the book and DVD in a few months. Sure is hard sending the borrowed book back though...I keep picking it up and feeling like just making a few copies of certain pages to tide me over...but then realise that I could never stop at just a few. Stepping away from the book now.
Emailed you with some more thoughts; let me know if it does not come through.

Hi Michelle,

I have the DVD but not the book. I was considering ordering the book since I tried every library and second hand shop and no one has it. I could swap you the DVD for the book if you ordered the book?

cheers

Good grief, yet again the same story! I just wanted to say hi (again) because my experience is exactly the same as yours, and I just think it's nice to know you're not the only one. So, yep. I'm 33 too, one child, shitty birth experience, long pushing, ventuese, episiotomy (at the royal women's in melbourne) I'm hoping to have another child, but I can't be bothered to wait until my PP gets better, so I'm just gonna go for it! Having said that, I'm still breastfeeding DD and haven't got my period back with any kind of regularity or anything, so I'll just wait and see!

Good luck ladies, we'll be ok!