NEW-3 mos Postpartum-Cyst/Rect/Uter-Trying EVERYTHING to heal

Hello kala!
So glad you found us....read read read all you can, information is power and knowledge put into practice will continue to be helpful. It sounds like you are already very much on top of things, and I think you are going to pull up just fine. We have had several discussions in here about the mysterious 3 months mark...for some reason this seems to be a time of great importance, either prolapses occur around this time, or they seem to improve, or they take a nose dive. Hormonal perhaps? Who knows.
A few things you mentioned -
29 is beautifully young. Your capacity for healing is enormous. Arguably, grade 1 uterine prolapse may even be considered within the range of normal for 3 months pp, though it does sound like you have quite a lot of bulging going on. This will change and ebb and flow, even daily! I doubt that being active during your pregnancy was a causative factor in your POPs, and generally speaking minor POPs are hard to 'diagnose' during pregnancy because the pregnancy tends to shift things around, so if you weren't feeling the bulges then they probably were not there.
9lbs 10oz sounds very healthy indeed. Do you feel like you ate poorly (i.e. junk food, simple carbs, etc) during pregnancy and therefor grew a big baby? If not, then your body grew the size baby it needed to...and clearly was not too big to be pushed out in all of 3 minutes! 9+lb babies are pretty normal in my neck of the woods. I think our perception of 'proper' baby size is a vestige of the 70's when women were encouraged to diet and smoke (!) to ensure 6-7 lb babies. But, I digress.
I am not familiar with the MummyTummy DVD but will check it out. What sort of posture are you in for the exercises? To be pedantic, diastasis is caused by improper use of muscles, not big babies! I have seen tiny women birth 11lb + babies and virtually NO diastasis if they have been diligent with protecting the rectus abdominis during pregnancy. Mixed feelings here on binding....how are you finding it so far? What sort of binding are you using?
There are also accounts in these forums of subsequent pregnancies NOT worsening POP....is it alemama and/or gmon?...so if you want to keep that door open it is possible for sure....
P.S. This is mildly alarming, in my opinion. Not great for POP to say the least...
http://www.maternalfitness.com/articles/baks-basics.pdf

hi there kala
welcome to the forums, and so sorry you had reason to seek us out
only have a couple of moments before my baby wakes us (she always seems to know when I log on...) but wanted to share a bit
babies after finding a prolapse are entirely possible. I've had two and I am no worse off for it. I waited a year or so after finding my prolapse before getting pg again, took a while for me to feel confident enough in my body. but after working with the wholewoman principles for a while, I was able to not only stabilize, but somewhat reverse my prolapse. I felt that even if I prolapsed pp, I would be able to get back to my baseline.
3 mo pp, btw, was the worst for me.
I, too, had a diastisis from my first baby, got worse with my second. found my prolapse when my third was 18 mo and by the time I got pg with number four, it was gone. did not happen with pg's four and five, and I attribute that to the posture.
I gained 48-55 lb with each baby, btw.

I'm also a bit hesitant to heartily recommend binding or power kegels. don't know anything about the mummy tummy program. 'core' always rings bells in my head, because core work should be done with proper posture in mind. so careful there too.

time is on your side, you can pick and choose what works for you. believe me, I can totally relate to the urgency of wanting this fixed NOW but this is not life threatening so if one thing isn't working you can drop it and experiment with something else.

personally, I have found tremendous success with the posture, firebreathing, nauli and a few plies from the workout in the book thrown in now and then. and I"ve given up dairy, meat, and caffeine. that seems to help me too.

my friends and family do not understand this either, but I'm at a point now (been dealing with this for about 5 years now) that I can say I no longer feel its serious. lifelong, yes. serious? nah. not any more serious than my saggy boobs. I'm fully continent, got no pain, sex is great, I'm birthing babies and carrying them around, running around with my big ones, just living life. so I eat better, I choose clothing wisely and stand differently than I used to. I'll tell ya, I get positive comments on my posture all the time. people tell me I look so graceful, and my favorite - youthful. its true, young girls stand and move in WW posture naturally.
so its all good now.

Yeah, by 3 months pp, I was at an all time low -- literally -- with my pp cystocele. I too was willing to try anything and everything. There is enormous healing potential in the first two years pp, and I didn't want to look back on that time and think "if only I'd . . ." In the end, WW posture, nauli, and walking (and time!!!) are what truly healed me. I am now about 17 months pp and my cystocele is nowhere to be found. I feel great throughout my entire menstrual cycle. Sex is incredible again. My retroverted uterus has corrected to the proper anatomical position. Yesterday, I spent an 8 hour shift standing on a hard, hard, hard operating room floor (in ww posture, of course!) and when I checked my vulva that night, well, it looked almost pre-baby tight.

Trust me when I say, relax about this. You WILL be fine. I started the WW work at 3 months pp and noticed a teeny weeny difference. At 5 months pp, I began to see a glimpse of the "old me." By nine months pp, I stopped feeling so fragile and the cystocele lost some of it's grip on my life. At 12 months pp, I could see a bright future with more babies, and little hindrance from a stupid and ever-shrinking bulge. Today . . . well I feel fantastic.
This is a slow process, but one made so simple and beautiful with the WW work. It's not a battle, it's just another growing process. Do what you need to feel proactive, but do the posture and nauli first. And be sure to check back in as you heal!!

Best wishes

ETA: I used a sea sponge tampon to help support when really needed until about 11 months pp. Now, I don't feel the need. But you may want to try them -- cheaper and healthier than a pessary . . . .

Hi

My first son was that big -- 9 lbs 8 oz., and forceps delivery. My bladder was weak ever since. What I didn't realize is that my pelvic floor had weakened, and with my third child I had to go on bedrest for several weeks, due to contractions whenever I walked, etc.

Personally, I think having big babies does strain things, and it makes matters worse that these doctors are so silent on this issue until there's a BIG PROBLEM -- then they recommend surgery.

Hope you get to feeling better. I've been doing some different exercises for my abdominals, which seems to help. I hadn't done too many crunches in recent years since they killed my neck, so my abs got weak. I did find some ab exercises that don't strain my neck OR cystocele (specifically for POP) -- so i'll keep doing those moderately in addition to the whole woman exercises. Do the yummy tummy exercises put pressure on your pelvic region? Let us know how you're doing.

I quite agree, Aza. Some of them sound OK but others sound pretty dreadful for POP. They would be awfully hard work! I really think a lot of postpartum diastasis would resolve itself if women just stretched out into Wholewoman posture, raising the chest to stretch the two halves of the rectus abdominus and allow them to come together by themselves. However I guess that approach only works if the woman has maintained some whole body muscle strength throughout the pregnancy.

Louise

Hi Kala

Yes, it is great to find a group of women you can discuss things with. Your body will be still reverting for another 18 months or so. It is just a matter of being patient and being kind to yourself. I wouldn't be making any permanent decisions yet on whether or not to have another baby. Just do what you have to do now and enjoy your little ones.

It sounds like you have done all the right things to get your body working again. Re the Tupler exercises, I would be wary of any exercises that ask you to tilt your pelvis and straighten your spine when upright.

The principle of Wholewoman exercises is to use your posture and activities to give full range of motion to all your muscles. IMO, It is using muscles fully that makes them strong, rather than doing specific muscle contractions. That way, most of your exercising is something you do with everyday movement.

Stay in touch.

Louise

You who have had babies after prolapse: how bad was your prolapse? My sister-in-law told me she's had two babies since her OB told her she had a prolapsed uterus. But her description of prolapse (no symptoms except perhaps urinary urgency) is nothing like I'm experiencing. I think it must be mild enough in her that she didn't even know she had it.

My husband and I have also been talking about vasectomy. We don't want to, but I'm afraid of getting pregnant again. I'm still in pretty severe pain. When I walk the labia scrapes alongside my cervix. It's not comfortable.

I'm afraid if I get pregnant again my uterus is going to fall out of my body.

It's interesting that 18 months is mentioned as a good place to re-evaluate prolapse. I'm always about 3 months pregnant again at 18 months postpartum. I guess I always considered my fertility a blessing and I was always thankful to be able to get pregnant so quickly and easily....especially compared to some of my friends who have been trying unsuccessfully to get pregnant for years. And now........And now I can't even empty the garbage. It's hard to unload the dryer. I can't carry my baby farther than the mailbox and back.

Hi, Ribbit:

My mother is 88 years old. I found out two days ago that she used a pessary to support her uterus after giving birth to my brother and me 14 months apart. That was in the 1950s. She successfully birthed my younger sister and brother in the years following that episode. (What else didn't she tell me???)

I'm just saying that a pessary could possibly assist you in this stage by supporting your organs. I have a cystocele, post-menopause, that I truly wish I could get rid of. I use a silcone ring-with-support pessary. It isn't perfect, but it eliminates that bulging sensation when I wear it. Then I can deal with the emotional component somewhat better.

My feeling is that we use all the tools available to us to help us with these conditions. There isn't a reliable surgical "fix" that is safe and effective. The post-partum mothers on this forum nearly always find that their bodies are elastic, loaded with hormones, and able to heal themselves as they emerge from the months following childbirth. It seems more difficult for some of us post-menopausal women without the customary estrogen in circulation.

My pessary is small and quite simple to insert and remove. I usually remove it when I go to bed. I don't know if you've received any medical advice about such things one way or another, but it may be something useful. Your body will heal over time. You are in a difficult stage right now, but things are bound to improve. Take care.

Best wishes,
Saddleup

Hi Ribbit

Re the scraping, I think you will find that this decreases when your oestrogen levels increase again in response to less breastfeeding. In the meantime you could try a lubricant or vaginal moisturiser (Yes, Sylk, Senselle or Replens) to help the surfaces move over each other more smoothly. Bliss Balm is great for this, because, not being water based, your natural body fluids won't dilute it during the day. BUT caution if you are using a latex contraceptive, eg condoms or diaphragm, as they are not oil friendly.

By the way, we have yet to hear of any woman who has another pregnancy and her uterus falls out of her body. I think it is a scary thought, but facts don't show evidence that it will occur, especially with Wholewoman techniques at hand. Some women have a doubtful few weeks at some point in pregnancy but they seem to pass OK. The larger the foetus gets, the less likely it is that the uterus can come out. With an experienced and skilled midwife at birth it is less likely to cause a problem then.

cheers

Louise

Ribbit, It just occurred to me that you are in the very acute grieving phase of finding a prolapse. Many of us go through it. I know personally that I would get in bed every day at 5 or 6 and refuse to get out until the morning- and that getting out in the morning was the hardest thing to do. The only reason I was able to do it was because of the children. I was so so sad. I was mourning the loss of my youth (ha at age 27?). I thought constantly of all the things I could no longer do. At one point I freaked myself out thinking that I could never snuggle on the couch with my sweet babies, never have another baby, never run again.....the list was endless. It took me a month or so to get the heck out of that horrible, dark, sad place.
Then I got serious about wholewoman techniques- I grabbed onto the hope that Louise, Christine, Granolamom, Fruitful womb and others offered to me and to the physical act of *doing something* and guess what? It got worse...so then back to that horrible place I went. And of course I was postpartum and my hormones were nutty.
Alright long story short- this will pass. You will figure out what works for you. You will carry your baby for miles and miles with no symptoms. You will feel so confident that you will consider another pregnancy and birth. Right now you are searching. You will find what you are looking for. Keep looking.
And in the interim let someone else empty the dryer :)

You're right, Alemama, I am grieving. It's about to tear me up. I had just gotten to where I trusted my body, and now it's let me down again. (I'm a recovered fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue sufferer.)

Christine suggested I get evaluated by a specialist (colo-rectal something? I need to find that thread again and go see what she said), so I'm going to find somebody who can give me something definite and official. At least I'll know where I stand. Louise's thoughts about discs is making me think REAL HARD because my back has always been bad despite being under chiropractic care for many, many years. The low back pain only disappears when I put something like a wadded up baby blanket behind my sacrum when I'm sitting. Driving is awful. Unless I have something putting pressure on my sacrum. And standing? Forget it. Grocery shopping? Nightmare. Clothes shopping? Don't get me started.

My husband travels. It's just me, myself, I and the children. Although I do have to say that a lady from church is coming out to help me put my garden in Tuesday. I helped her put in her garden last year while I was 5 months pregnant and that probably had a little something to do with the prolapse as well, shoveling huge mounds of heavy dirt and compost. And, of course, at that point I knew nothing about how to do it correctly--in WW posture. I will ask her to carry laundry baskets up the stairs for me. Actually, I will ask her able-bodied daughters to help. She herself has mild prolapse and I plan on showing her Christine's book and video while she's here. What a blessing to have friends willing to come help. I have found most people to be completely ignorant and/or unwilling to help. "Oh, you can do it. Be strong. I'll pray for you." Good grief, people!

Saddleup: When I go for an official exam, I will ask about a pessary. The thought is rather awful, but if it'll help me do what I need to do, I'll get one.

Louise: I have Bliss Balm. My sweet husband ordered me some. Contraceptives? You've got to be kidding me. How about abstinence??? (*sigh*) My body doesn't work any more. I will try using the Bliss Balm and see if it helps.

I think I've hijacked somebody's thread here.

Hey Ribbit, you thread hijacker, don't worry about it. We girls seem to do it all the time, changing subjects in conversations is something we women do best! ;-)

Why keep talking about the same thing?

Kala, are you still with us? We are still interested in you too.

Ribbit, you can probably find Christine's colo-rectal thingy by clicking on your own username, which takes you to your own profile, then the Track tab. This will give a list of all the topics you have posted under. Click on each and read the whole string, or use your browser's Edit >Find feature to highlight all occurrences of 'colorectal' in each topic in turn. Good Luck.

Now you have identified your grief for what it is, you know that it is normal to feel like this when you discover POP. It will pass eventually, and you can help it along. Writing from the heart can help you to express your grief and understand it. You know, the denial, the self-pity, the anger, sadness, the bargaining, etc? They are all parts of the same process, even the resignation at the end, when you know it won't go away, but you can see that there is a better future, and you can positively work towards it.

Take care.

Louise

Hi Louise,

Sorry, Just trying to get everything right before I "throw myself into this new lifestyle" don't want to do more damage. Today I studyied nutation, body anatomy more and some other issues like flapping your arms, I get that now. I did it on the front lawn and helped me stay in posture so I am getting there. NOW I don't think I am breathing right that is why I struggle with the fire breathing. Can you help? I just looked at the book where it shows starting the breathing from the lower diaphram. So when I breath in my lungs should fill and chest rise, Right? When I breath out is confusing to me, do I exhale into my pelvic area or just exhale naturally and not pay any attention. Confused. Can you believe I do not even know how I am supposed to breath and I am 61!!!LOL I have been reading the book and looking and watching the tape but not getting it or I am making it too complicated. Sorry Once I get it all down, I won't bother anyone so much but can not afford to get it wrong.

hi Heavenly

The function of the respiratory diaphragm is explained on p11 of Saving the Whole Woman. It is the main muscle of respiration.

When you breathe in your belly should expand because the diaphragm expands downward and forwards as you inhale. Your chest should rise a little, but only after your belly has expanded. Try it lying on your back first. when we have been holding our tummies in for years and years the abs kind of forget how to work normally. They should relax on inspiration and allow the lungs to inflate downwards fully. You will just need to teach them again. The contraction of the diaphragm also pulls the thoracic spine forwards, which reinforces and increases the diameter of the lumbar curve.

I know this is possible because I have been able to teach my husband to belly breathe. His sleep apnoea and snoring have gone away. He no longer has to use his CPAP machine, thank goodness. He has almost given up mouth breathing completely, so he no longer hyperventilates because he can now get enough air into his lungs. The only time he mouth breathes now is when he is stressed. So I just tell him to shut his mouth, and his whole demeanour changes. He then breathes more slowly, both in and out. I am sure this is calming in itself, ie it breaks the stress cycle, slows down and calms the whole person.

After he has been away on business for a few days he is always mouth breathing the first night he comes home. We have this ritual on the first night where he is early to bed, snoring his head off. I wake him a couple of times and tell him to shut his mouth, which he dutifully does, and then we finally both have a peaceful night's sleep. I might have to remind him a couple of times the next morning during breakfast, then he is fine from then on. I just shake my head with disbelief!

Have a look at your stress levels too. Discovering POP is stressful enough in itself, until you know that you can deal with it!

If you cannot teach yourself to breathe deeply a good yoga teacher will be able to teach you hands on. Adopting WW posture with its proud chest will ensure that your lungs will always be free to inflate, and your belly free expand to accommodate your breath. To my knowledge there is nobody in the world teaching people to breathe only using their chest. All the material I have ever seen is teaching people to allow their abdomen to expand to accommodate inhalation. There must be some truth in it.

Louise

OK Really have been screwing up the breathing Louise. Inhale stomach does not move, exhale pushing into my stomach area. What a mess. I have read p11 a number of times but not getting it right! or can't

Ok Just layed on my back to breath and yes, that position I can tell my stomach is expanding and it makes me more aware of what it should feel like I think. Is it ok to force slightly into to stomach area at first until I get used to it? When I breath out my stomach flattens. Right? Why can't I feel all this standing up. For some reason I have believed I needed to keep my inhale centered in my chest lung area and should not be moving my stomach. I thought this was going to be a simple forum !!LOL Now I find I can't sit cross legged and have not a clue how to breath. Certainly never new about LoPo

Oh Heavenly, you make me laugh. (((((Heavenly))))).
You're going just fine. You have to crawl before you walk. You have some movement of your belly outwards when you inhale, and you have your belly falling when you exhale. That is wonderful!!

Keep practising and it will eventually become effortless. I am sure that you will be able to relax more when you get that far, then you will realise how tense you have been.

Just like POP you will have temporary setbacks when you will forget how to do it, but it will come back. Most frustrating when that happens. I know the difficulty you are having. I have been learning bellydance for the last 2 1/2 years. I am currently learning how to do a full body undulation. It is *so* hard, and *so* frustrating. I can do one, but cannot do two in a row, and doing them right across the room feels totally impossible! But I did finally learn to shimmy smoothly, so I have a glimmer of hope that I will be able to do this full body undulation eventually.

Be patient, my darling, and don't growl at yourself. It will come. Baby steps.

Louise

Hi and thanks Louise,

Having kind of a bad afternoon. It is not a bad day and you get excited and then it all comes tumbling down. First I am up and then down. I keep trying to stay focused but it is not easy always feeling the bulge in one way or another. Just want to be the way I was. Thanks for your support.
Not sure what triggered. Think it might be the poo thing like we all deal with. Love Ya Lots