I'm new...please help me!

Welcome momma of 2,
I am so glad you found whole woman--and hope we can help to offer you some of the reassurance you need right now. but first, congrats of your lovely baby. 12 weeks is such a gorgeous age, and i know how hard it is to feel like you aren't getting to enjoy it.
know that lots of women here have gone through the upset you are feeling, and we come out the other side to feel like we are in control again.

If you go to the library from the main whole woman village and scroll down, you'll see a prolapse self exam. do the exam and let us know what you find.

i have a rectocle and cystocle that were quite severe (did not go away when lying down, plus a mild uterine prolapse babe no. 2. and i was devastated. how could i live my life and do the things i love and be with my children?

then i found WW! all i can say is there is sooooo much healing your body can do and will do. go to the theatre for the basics of WW. if you can afford it, order the book and DVD, start reading, and start the excercises. lots are balletic, but in the lovely WW posture that repositions your organs. the idea is to get your organs to naturally fall forward into your belly where they belong, instead of back into your vagina. also there is infinite wisdom and support here so use it as you need!

re things that may help

urinating--lean forwards and lift your bottom up--this lets your bladder fall forward and empty more easily. when mine was bad i found this so helpful. now not even an issue. also you may want to pee once a day on all fours in the shower to empty your bladder fully, to avoid infections.

rectocele--what you eat is crucial. avoid constipation at all costs. for me this has been a radical shift in diet, which was already healthy but has gotten much healthier. i eat a lot of fibre, mostly from raw veg, fruit, nuts, and pulses. some carb but not much, no dairy except live yogurt, and chocolate is a no no for me. hard at first, now second nature. cutting out inflammatory foods like sugar really helped as well, but we can get onto that more later! i know it's a lot to start with.

clothing--loose comfy clothes are crucial, that don't compress your belly. take care when lifting that you stay in WW posture. try to get help where you can, and give yourself a break (though hard with two little ones i know!)
walking, sitting and being in WW posture is tiring at first, so alternate a lot with resting and lying down. you may be sore at first, but soon it will be second nature. go to the theatre for the basics of WW.
i spend lots of time lying down playing lego and watching movies at first, which meant i could be with my older one but still look after me and not feel so bulgy.

thins will get so much better. i don't know wher eyou are, but in teh UK the doctor won't even see you again till 1 year PP, and longer if you are breastfeeding. don't think b/feeding made a difference, but they accept that bodies need time to heal. i was lucky not to have surgery pushed on me, and be given time to heal. now my moderate to severe pop are manageable. by 6 months things started to improve massively, and just kept improving. now 3 1/2 years later they keep getting better as i learn more about my body and what it needs.

i don't want to bombard you with too much info, but hope it gives a bit of reassurance.
good luck at the doctors, but don't be surprised if they don't have any options other than surgery. you however do now that you are here which is great! thanks to this work, i go hiking all day w/o thinking about it, run round with my kids, play, work, dance--you name it, i do it.
i let other people lift heavy stuff for me, but hey other than that i can do it.
so hang in there and take care of yourself.
try to take some moments just to enjoy your family, lying down if you need so that you feel less uncomfortable, and know this will change radically.

Kiki

You're exactly where I was a few months ago. Order the workout DVD and the book and then do the exercises! You will begin to notice a difference.

I'm still in a good bit of pain, but the exercises do help with that and with urinary incontinence.

I also am devastated that I can't do things with my children. It tears me up. They have to suffer because I can't walk very far. It's not fair to them.

And yet....this is what I am dealt right now, so I will work with it and see how I can heal.

Whole Woman posture, the very condensed version:

Relax your lower belly out. Allow the lower lumbar to curve naturally. (If you're a dancer, you won't have much trouble here!) Lift your chest and flatten your upper back, shoulders relaxed.

Relaxing your belly allows the pelvic organs to be back in their normal place--laying forward over your pubic bone--instead of standing up straight like the pictures show. When you pull in your tummy and try to straighten the lower lumbar, it pulls back your pelvic organs and can make the prolapse symptoms worse. Watch the DVD, First Aid for Prolapse and you will understand. It's totally worth the money.

Hi Mommaof2,
I can hear your emotion coming through your post and wish that we could all give you a big hug. Please listen to the experienced voices of kiki and ribbit...the potential for healing is massive and where you are now is NOT where you will be in the future.
Just want to reiterate that surgery is a one way street and you are simply way too early in the piece to even consider such a thing. There is a wealth of information on this forum on why surgery is often not exactly what it is purported to be, to say the least.
Being pedantic here but I am curious...you say that with your last birth, she was posterior but was 'delivered normally'. Does this mean she rotated and was born anterior or that she was born posterior but still vaginally?
I am so, so sorry that an obgyn, ER resident, family doctor, and experienced obgyn all seemed to miss the fact that there were changes happening in your body that had they been able to detect would have confirmed exactly what you already knew. Clearly, you are the expert in what is happening in your own body. I think it is a hidden blessing (though I totally understand that it won't seem like this to you at the moment) that the lack of understanding and knowledge about prolapse issues in the medical community results in many many women taking total charge of their own healing and making incredible progress with figuring out their own bodies and how to improve whatever particular problem you have been dealt.
Your cycles started back at 9 wks postpartum (if I am dong the math correctly)? Are you breastfeeding?
Many hugs mommato2! Hang in there, you are not alone and this will get better!

listen, right now, you are at rock bottom. I have had two babies since finding my prolapses and both times it was worst at 12 weeks pp.
you are still pp in my book, the 6 week thing is a myth. your body will continue to find its way back to its prepg state for up to two years.
before I echo everyone else's tips, let me tell you a bit about myself:
I found a cystocele when my third child, then the youngest, was 18 mo.
it was awful, as you know. I couldn't walk around the mall, do the laundry, play with my kids, wash the dishes.
soon after I developed a rectocele too. really awful.
but after a year of staying in this posture and doing a few exercises most days, I had my life back. I am telling you, I am living my life well, even with a prolapse. its smaller and higher than it was when I found it but it is 99% asymptomatic so I stopped worrying about what it looks like. some women here have experienced complete reversal (or near complete) and though I am not lucky enough to be one of them, I feel quite blessed that I have gone on to birth two more babies and am no worse off for it. I do all the housework. I play with my kids. I garden. I wear my 6 month old daughter in a sling. I am fully continent with no pain and sex is great.
I really think that with proper care and attention to your body and health, you can manage this and get back to the business of living your life.
so
learn the posture
eat well and avoid constipation
never strain on the toilet
try to fully empty your bladder at least once daily to prevent infection (try doing this on hands/knees - that puts things into a better position for emptying)
stick around, ask any/all questions you have.
you can do this.

and congratulations on the baby!

I personally have never tried one, but many here use a pessary either regularly, or just as needed (ie, a long day on your feet, or heavy exercise).

will it hinder your progress? I don't know. ideally, the vagina should be a flattened tube, with the anterior and posterior walls in full contact with one another. when you have a prolapse, obviously, it isn't. something is in the tube (bladder, rectum, cervix, whatever). the goal of the posture is to get the organs back to proper, stable, position and keep them there. I'd like my vagina to get back to being a flat tube. a pessary keeps the vagina open while pushing back at whatever organs are pushing against the vaginal wall. so what feels right for me is to go without one if I can. but if you feel that a pessary better allows you to get up and about, then explore it. sometimes its a bit of a challenge finding the right one and the right fit, let your dr know if its not comfortable or if its not working and you want to try another type. some women here also use sport tampons or sea sponges as pessary. type it into the search box.

and the mourning, sorry about that. we all go through that. its not a pretty place. but its a process and you will come through to the other side. your life will not be 'the same' but it can be just as good as it was. mine is.

some women have reported success with physiotherapy. I think that if a woman has excessive tightness or other limitations contributing to problems achieving/maintaining the WW posture, then PT and chiro are probably helpful in that regard.
I personally was going for regular chiro treatments when I started here, my whole body kinda fell apart at the same time, so I was going to the chiro to help get rid of the nasty occipital neuralgia I was then dealing with. I don't know if it also helped the prolapse, though my chiro seems to believe that chiro can help everything from adhd to diabetes (not so sure I agree, but it helped my neuralgia and some other joint issues so I'm happy).
here's the thing... the traditional PT perspective regarding prolapse is to kegel and strengthen the 'pelvic floor'. now, I know how to do that, I'm a PT myself, and I had a real strong pelvic floor before I wound up here. so if a strong pelvic floor cannot prevent a prolapse, how will it reverse a prolapse?
the wholewoman approach is really different. here, we are trying to reposition our pelvic organs by changing the way we hold our spines and abdomens. so that there isn't a pelvic floor with a hole in it. instead, the 'floor' is the pubic symphisis - a bone. the pelvic floor muscles, instead become a door, think about a cat standing on all four legs and what its bottom looks like - the openings aren't underneath but rather behind. back to the WW posture, so this tips the pelvic organs forward where they can sit safely in your lower belly (so no more sucking it in while tucking your bum).
I'm probably not doing a good job describing all of this, so please ask for clarification. and the book is excellent, lots of drawings that make more sense than my jumbled thoughts today.

I imagine pessaries help to varying degrees, depending on the woman. you'd know its the wrong size if it hurts or slips out.

estrogen has been shown to plump up the vaginal walls and help with dryness, but I think that's probably for women who have low levels of estrogen. If your cycles are back, your estrogen levels are probably near normal anyway. I have not seen any credible information showing that estrogen can pull your bladder up and out of your vaginal canal.
I haven't been on the pill for years, I've officially 'risked out' and anyway, I never liked how I felt on the pill (emotionally, I mean). so I have no real experience there.

Granolamom, you are always so clear and easy to understand.
I particularly liked this part : so if a strong pelvic floor cannot prevent a prolapse, how will it reverse a prolapse?
Thank you for being you:)

I totally agree, Gmon's posts recently have been completely fantastic :)
You will be here one day telling your story and giving hope to someone who is in a very dark time, Mommaof2!
I must chime in re OCP...I am not a fan at all of this medicine and think it is one of the most atrocious acts of modern time that women are not given information on the short and long-term effects of oral contraception (do you have daughters?). I also know birth control options generally suck, so you have my sympathies, but if you are willing to do some research it would be a good idea in order to make an informed choice. Not that you don't have enough on your plate, I know!
I would be inclined to try chiropractic coupled with massage rather than a physio in the early days of sorting out what is happening in your body. Remember that WW theory is juxtaposed to the mainstream ideas of our pelvis and musculature, so unless you are lucky enough to find someone who is at least middle of the line, it may be very confusing and hinder progress in the early days.

So much good info here! glad you are getting lots of helpful thoughts. sorry to have disappeared--got ill, just starting to wake up a bit ;-)

Physio--most physio will as said, be kegels. Now I went to physio and it was great for my emotional state. she was like a therapist, every week reassuring me, letting me know i would be fine, advising me around food, getting me to go have sex, that stuff. if it helped my POP no idea. but i know WW did.

there was a great post by christine on Kegels the right way...anyone know where to find it now in the new village?

I went to accupuncture which i think helped especially with herbs and helped my anxiety. i also did homeopathy which again helped with both, but that's the kind of gal i am. i think osteopaths are great, and getting yourself in line can help your body heal. have you found the film in the WW cinema about the posture basics?

BCP--i don't think from what anyone has said that they will help your POP. as said, if you have your periods, your estrogen levels are back up. stopping breastfeeding certainly did nothing to help my POP as my periods had returned over a year before.
but put them in the side search box (plus pessaries in there too) and you will get more info. i never used one, instead i tried sea sponges as they support a bit but also allow your vagina to stay in its natural shape.
one thing i would just say is be aware of your limits, and don't go past them. when i lift something too heavy my pelvis speaks out to me--and that is crucial for maintaining its health. if i wear a tampon for support, i can't hear it call out anymore so i have to be extra careful. same with a pessary i imagine.

largely, your body just needs time, time to heal, time to get the posture, time to do the excercises. 12 weeks is nothing! i imagine about 6 months you'll start to see a change. at a year, you'll feel a ton better. at two years you'll have a hard time remembering how bad it was.

ugh, PPD is miserable. I'm so sorry you're going through this. good for you for seeking help. I usually wait too long before I do.
both my midwife and the therapist I was seeing this last time around say that the most common cause of PPD (in their patient experience) is the mom doing too much too soon. and they both say that they find that it is oftentimes worst at....3 mo pp.
ok, so now you know that maybe you did too much too soon. chalk it up to a learning experience. the depression WILL eventually lift, you know that in your head even if it seems forever right now.
I hate PPD, had it after all my babies, but this time it was pretty short lived. I like to think that was in part due to my preparation for it and the care I gave myself, but also my mw found me to have low levels of free T3 (thyroid hormone) while still pg and put me on supplements. truly it made such a difference! I know I sound like a recent convert, but I encourage every woman with PPD to have her thyroid levels checked.

you need to take care of you. two children is a whole different ball of wax than one child. try, just try, to ask yourself what you need right now. and then see who you can call upon to provide it.

you will get your life back. I spent a long time crying about my prolapse but now I really put it in the same category as my no-longer-perky boobs and the lines etching themselves into my face. bugs me sometimes, but not enough to take the joy out of my life.
this will pass, but it will take time and cannot be rushed. so cry and grieve and know that you will come through the other side.

Dear Mommaof2,

I don't really have anything of value to add, except that I promise you will start to feel better. It's a long haul, but really, it does get better. I found my prolapse at 11 months PP. I went to physio, did her exercises and got the all clear and "symptom free" 2 months later. So, with my physio's blessing I started working out hard, with lots of weights and lots of crunches. I looked great, until 6 weeks later my POP got much much worse. Like you ( I read in another post you were blaming yourself for doing too much?) , I felt that it was my fault and spent weeks thinking 'if only I hadn't done this or that', but seriously, that way madness lies! If you need to blame someone blame society for instilling an unobtainable ideal of female form, blame modern medicine for removing knowledge of our bodies and putting it in the hands of the big pharmeceutical companies, but please, dear momma, do not blame yourself.
I just really wanted to let you know that your POP won't be the most important thing in your life for ever, and the day will come soon when it won't be the first thing you think about (and regret, and beat yourself up about) in the morning. I joined this forum in January, andall I could think about was my POP, and i thought I was being a crap mum to my little girl, a crap partner, a crap friend etc etc because all I could think about was my lovely vagina was broken and revolting. Oh, and I looked at it in the mirror, oh, about every 5 minutes.
You will find, bit by bit, day by day, you are thinking about other things, you start to laugh, you have sex...
It has taken me 6 months, but really, while a part of me would love to have an unsullied, perfect vagina, I don't, and i'll live with it, love it, and look after it. My husband's pretty happy, because I've told him sex is 'medicinal' as it helps push everything back up, hence i guess the unexpected pregnancy! Hell, my sex life is better post- POP!
So there you go, I hope I've offered you somehope that in 6 months I've gone from the depths of despair to a good place where I really respect my poor, used and abused old body.
Give yourself some TLC darling, you deserve it!
Cararosesmum xxx

Wow--you sound like me.

Let me tell you what I did. I should let you know first of all that I'm 32. I feel like my body is falling apart about 30 years too early.

My PPD has gotten better with B12 injections (thanks to my doctor's suggestion) and high dosages of Omega 3-6-9 oils. Like 3 Tbsp. first thing in the morning. It sounds gross, but it truly helps. I don't feel like I'm going to strangle somebody now. It's not gone, but it's manageable.

The chiropractor does help some, but the one I'm seeing is kind of throwing his hands up. He doesn't know what to do with my pelvis. I've asked him to quit doing the "pretzel twist" (where you lay on your side and he pushes your hips one way and your shoulders the other way). It's very painful since the prolapse. Now he just uses the drop table and does the best he can.

When you're in the "posture" you do not look funny. Nobody will think you're strange. You might look more like a dancer--someone who has taken ballet and learned how to stand. :) You will find yourself wearing looser, more flowing clothing. The posture isn't easily done in tight jeans. I'd be surprised if anybody with prolapse can even FIT into tight jeans. Ha. I'm trying to imagine myself in the clothes I used to wear.

It will get better, sweetie. Take some Omega oils and eat some salmon or sardines. :)

Hi Mommaof2

Congratulations on the birth of your second baby, and reaching 3 months postpartum, which can be a very challenging time for POP. Your baby is smiling and you feel like your uterus, bladder and rectum are all arguing about which can get out first.

I have had some time off from the Forums and have come back to all these lovely replies that the other Members have sent you. We are very lucky to have each other to understand exactly what each other is going through.

No, your body will never be the same again. No woman's body is ever the same again after giving birth the second time. First time you are pregnant and give birth your body has never been stretched before, but for the second pregnancy and birth there is often damage from the first birth, *and* you start the pregnancy already stretched and moulded to pregnant shape and size, so of course you feel like the Saggy, Baggy Elephant after the second pregnancy. What's more, the more you recover from the pregnancy and birth, for the first few months, it often gets worse before it gets better. You feel like you are on a slippery slide to doom, and nothing you can do will stop the decline and get you feeling like you are really recovering. Then the PPD sets in and the sky goes black.

I am so glad you are seeing a psych next week, and so glad you have found us.

It will take some time for this body of yours to feel like it is improving, but it will happen in time. By the time you are 12 months postpartum, and maybe before, you will have your body under a bit more control, you will have learned a lot more about your body, and nature will have done her first twelve months' work in reverting your body post-pregnancy. First you will have a day when you will realise that you haven't felt your POPs for a couple of hours. Then you will have this happen every day. Then it will happen more often, until you only feel your POPs occasionally. You will have temporary setbacks that will last a couple of days, but you will come to trust your body again, and recognise the setbacks as temporary. You will probably begin to identify what causes a setback. It is a very gradual process.

Have a look at Christine's channel, Wholewomaninc, on YouTube. You will see pictures of the posture, and some excerpts from the DVD.

Take care.

Louise