Estrogen

I regard it as an unequivocal poison. In the twenty-forty year old woman who has lost ovarian function it is an arguable risk, but oral estrogen intake in a sixty-something year old comes with significant risk of a whole host of diseases, including breast cancer, stroke, and gall bladder disease. That is why you had to sign the release.

Hi Maribelle,

It is all very tricky because hormones are one of the very few treatments available to medical doctors. So of course you are going to read a lot about estrogen being good for all manner of female complaints. It is a terrible situation.

The literature is very clear that if there is already an inflammatory process going on in the brain, then estrogen acts as gasoline on the fire, making dementia much worse. This warning is new and only there because of these indisputable findings. So now they are saying there is a "10-year window" (ten years after the beginning of menopause) when estrogen can help alleviate menopausal symptoms without causing a worsening in such things as dementia. I think it is all doublespeak. Gynecology is desperate.

Christine

Christine, what are the *brain* implications for the oestrogen in red clover?

Meribelle, I cannot see how oestrogen deficiency can cause prolapse. Just because many prolapses become problematic at the same time as a woman's ovaries are reducing their oestrogen production doesn't mean there is a direct cause and effect. You could just as easily say that prolapse causes the reduction in oestrogen production by the ovaries, which is clearly ridiculous!

It is a bit like saying that in the south of Western Australia there is green grass because it is winter, or that winter comes because the green grass germinates. In fact, in southern Western Australia winter is the only time we get reliable rainfall. It is the rain that causes the winter grasses to germinate, not the time of year. In summer there is little rain, so there is little green grass. Yes, they are related, but not directly causal, and there are many other factors at work.

Taking oral oestrogen or topical oestrogen in the vagina will plump up the vaginal and vulval tissues and make them moister again but it will have no effect whatsoever on the loss of fascial support that allows the pelvic organs to move around more and descend into the vagina, which is POP. The moisturising effect will allow the vaginal surfaces to move smoothly against each other, and against the cervix, which is probably also juicier and softer, and against your knickers or vulva, so sensation will be improved, but it will not control the organs themselves, or their supports.

As Christine says, gynaecology will say anything it wants to in advertisements, and be able to wriggle out of it if challenged, by saying that readers have misinterpreted the ad. You will probably find that the wording has been very carefully crafted to imply rather than prescribe the benefit of oestrogen for prolapse.

Louise

occupying beta receptors in place of toxic metabolites. I probably carry the ALZ gene, but no longer fear the disease.

That is a very simplistic and somewhat misleading statement, though there is some truth to it.

The bladder does not fall *through* the vaginal wall. It presses against the vaginal wall from the front, when the fascia layer between the vaginal wall and the bladder stretches or tears from previous trauma (often but not always associated with difficult childbirth and its surgical interventions), which makes the front vaginal wall sag backwards and expand in width, allowing the bladder nearer to the vaginal opening and vulva, than it was before. The surface of the vaginal wall remains intact, if thinner, as the fascial structures behind it are compromised.

When the ovaries decrease and finally almost stop producing oestrogen at menopause this has flow on effects to other sex hormones and the rest of the body. Oestrogen production increases a bit in the adrenal glands to compensate but the level never gets anywhere near as high as it was premenopause. Oestrogen is also released by the fat in the body over time.

Some of the effects of these complex changes are that the surfaces of the vagina and vulva and other skin surfaces become drier, and the vaginal walls less plumped up, so they seem thinner. As we age our muscles become harder to keep strong, and our connective tissue (eg, fascia) all over our bodies, becomes less resilient, ie it sags. This can start to happen much earlier in life than menopause, especially in smokers, whose facial appearance ages much quicker than non-smokers. Next time you see an older woman wearing a mini-skirt, think again. Look for the fag. She may be much younger than you think! Weathering from sun exposure has a similar effect, but last time I checked, I found that I didn't get much sunshine up my vagina, so that is an external effect only.

The simplistic medical solution is to add some more oestrogen back into the woman's system, or paint some on the troublesome parts to take them back to an earlier age condition. It does work by plumping up the surface of the vaginal walls, vulva and the skin, but adding oestrogen, while not adjusting the other hormones can be risky for the woman's health in other ways. I will have to leave that up to you to research that for yourself. There are many books and websites to give you the general picture.

However, there is no data to support the assertion that hormone replacement will reverse serious prolapse by strengthening the vaginal walls, or that it will prevent further prolapse, any more than doing Kegels will reverse anything other than minor prolapse, by making the pelvic floor muscles more responsive and stronger.

The main vaginal effect of replacement oestrogen, whether inserted topically in the vagina or swallowed as pills or capsules is on the surfaces of the vagina and vulva, making them slippery and more able to absorb and enable movement, during sex and everyday activities. It also enables the body to reposition the pelvic organs more easily, without discomfort.

You will get much have better supported pelvic organs by carrying them over your pubic bones, rather than over your vagina. Tall, feminine posture, no matter what your age, is the main tool for keeping your pelvic organs where they belong.

You can use vaginal moisturisers like Replens or a good lubricant to make your vagina more able to slide over itself, so you can reposition your organs more easily, and with less discomfort.

Hope this explains a bit. This is still not the whole story. It is all too complicated for me to understand and remember fully, but you get the general idea.

I think your doctor tried to explain it, but either doesn't really understand it himself, or didn't think you would understand it if he did explain it fully. I can understand the latter.

:-)

Louise

Thank you, Louise, for a very good description of estrogen’s double sword. I just want to take this opportunity to make the differentiation between stating facts and opinions and giving advice. Nothing on this website should be construed as advice, but rather carefully researched data and (sometimes strong) opinions. Each woman is responsible for her own health decisions.