weird uterus thing

It sounds to me like the early stirrings of your cycle returning, alemama. Instead of a rich, thick endometrium which then sheds and comes out as fresh blood, your body sounds like it is in the early stages of rebuilding the inner lining of the uterus and is shedding what it needs to along the way. Imagine washing a bowl and how we swish the water around a few times to get the suds out before the water runs clear. Menstruation is an incredible cleanse of the uterus so it sounds to me like this is what your body is doing, building up to bleeding again.

That does seem odd. I can only say that since the prolapse my uterus has done strange things and felt strange. I usually start my cycles back about 15 months......and the first one is always really difficult.

Sounds a bit like an orgasm gush to me, Alemama. Some women enjoy breastfeeding a lot. ;-)

But seriously, saying it is hormonal rather than related to the increase in nursing might be a bit simplistic. When you are lactating all sorts of weird hormonal things happen, and they are whole body things. It is even different when you are suckling from when the baby is not at the breast. Remember the milk letdown sensation? It is just as uncontrollable as orgasm.

Many women do get a very deep, could I say sexual, satisfaction from suckling their baby. Is this surprising, when somebody you love deeply is stroking your breasts softly, and engaging you eye to eye while sucking your nipples? All the while your whole body is trying to decide whether or not it should become fertile or not. To me, it sounds like ovulation is trying to happen. There is certainly something pretty profound going on!

Sorry if that was a bit TMI, but if you think about it, it makes some sense. So your body is getting a bit confused? Big deal! It will settle down, I am sure.

Can't explain the cramps though. I did experience really serious cramps a couple of times about two days before periods, probably within the final 4 periods before I stopped bleeding for good. I had never experienced such cramping before, other than first stage labour, except that it didn't let up like labour contractions; just kept going the first time. Needed mefanimic acid, a prostaglandin inhibitor to alleviate the pain, which disappeared in about 20 minutes, and did not return that day. Maybe it is a starting up and shutting down phenomenon? Bodies can be crazy.

Louise

Louise

Did you breastfeed, Louise?

hi alemama
I've experienced that a few times in my menstrual life.
first time spooked me completely, it was about a month or two before my first period. I thought I peed all over myself and was way too embarrassed to tell anyone about it. cramping wasn't as bad as you describe though.
then I've had that experience before each of my first pp periods, with variable degrees of cramping. I find that the more the baby is nursing the more the cramping hurts, and also the older the baby the worse it is. so this time wasnt so bad (only 7 mo) but with my first three it was about 14 mo pp and cramping was pretty bad. maybe coincidence? dont know.
also, my cycles are irregular and tend to be very long (even when not nursing), sometimes during a really long cycle (like 75 days or so) I will have that gush of fluid/cramps a couple of weeks before my period starts. usually after I ovulate though.
I'm pretty sure that in my case anyway, its not an orgasmic thing. if orgasm felt anything like that I'd try to avoid them.
I like aza's description, rinsing out the suds.

Orgasm gush or female ejaculation comes from the prostate, located behind the g-spot on the anterior vaginal wall. The cramping you describe sounds clearly uterine so I am assuming the fluid was from the uterus as well. As gmom said, what you describe doesn't sound very orgasmic, unfortunately ;)

Hi Ribbit

Umm, yes. I breastfed my first for 16 months (Weaned because of my need for a month in hospital in the city); the second for 20 months (weaned herself when I was 5 months pregnant with the third, who weaned himself at about 33 months. Breastfeeding was fundamental to having babies for me. I enjoyed it immensely. I have heard that some women do orgasm while nursing, but I have never met one. Oh, that it were so easy!!!

I am not at all saying that Alemama had an orgasms that didn't feel very nice. That would be silly. I was just demonstrating that sex and other hormones are really active during breastfeeding. This could cause weird things to happen.

Another silly thing that happened to me was for the last two years of menstruation I would get milk letdown sensations several times a week, but nothing to do with babies. It was actually very pleasant (kind of sentimentally pleasant), but kinda weird as well. It is amazing that our hormone metabolism keeps itself as level as it does, with the surges and falls of our sex hormones that goes on for about 30 years of our lives, let alone all the hormones that keep our metabolism ticking over 24/7.

Interesting question, Ribbit. I can almost see your eyes popping out from here, when you read my words. ;-)

Louise

I only asked because I have read (by non-breastfeeding moms) accusations about bf moms "getting aroused" by their babies and how disgusting it is. I'm horrified when I read that because although I've been breastfeeding one or two babies at at time non-stop for 7 1/2 years and understand the hormone fluctuations involved, I have NEVER been sexually aroused by a nursing baby and have yet to hear of a bf mom say they have been. I had a non-bf mom tell me once she didn't know how I could do something like that and not think about sex. I was baffled and at that time didn't know how to respond. But then, I'd only just had my first and was still new at it.

That's why I asked. Because I've never heard a bf mom actually say it--only non-bf moms make accusations. *shrug* Okay, it's all good. ;)

I probably sound more intense than I actually am.

Only have a second, but can’t let this slide and think there is a hugely important distinction to be made here. My assumption is that Louise was considering the possibility of orgasm during bf as something like expanding the love space as mother and feeling the power of universal giver of life. In no way could this be considered being “sexual” with her baby. The confusion is probably coming from the strong physical connection between nipples and uterus. The clitoris is not as closely dialed into this loop, as far as I know, and the reason Louise or no other bf women we know have this experience. I mean, they might have this experience and if they did, big deal? Men, on the other hand, would make it sexual and we could fill volumes with the reasons why.

...the uterus knows how to purge itself!! This is One More Thing gynecology is completely blind to and, I believe, one of the most powerfully health-sustaining physiological mechanisms the uterus has at its disposal. We need to gather these stories!

I hope I haven't offended anyone by raising this aspect of breastfeeding. I am very sorry if I have offended anyone. I was just pointing out that weird stuff happens with these bodies of ours, and hormones, whether sex hormones or metabolic hormones are the messengers that signal and respond to changes in the body. A lactating woman's metabolism changes by the hour, depending on what milk she produces and whether or not the milk is taken by the baby. Wires get crossed. Signals get mixed. Otherwise, why would I be getting labour type contractions at the age of 56, and thankfully not pregnant? Why would I get milk letdown sensations when I am not lactating, and have not been for twenty years? It is just weird, and I am sure that there are hormonal explanations for all these things that we have discussed.

Yes, Christine, that is what I was saying. Deep love is deep love. It has nothing to do with paedophilia, which is about power, selfishness and domination, not love!

I was not making any value judgements about any woman who feels any emotion or sensation during breastfeeding or sex, or grocery shopping for that matter. The love we feel for our own baby is just as deep as how we feel about our lover or partner, but I betcha that the hormones that are released by our bodies are very similar, because they both make us feel very, very good. In addition to that, I think we can feel this deep love and intimacy for our partner, completely separately from the sexual turn on.

I think there is a sexual element to a lot of the things we do in life, and with a lot of our relationships. It is the glue that keeps us producing new generations of humans. It certainly doesn't always result in sexual relationships. Sex and lust are all over our media and billboards. They stimulate our economy for better or worse. Let's not be so prudish as to deny that sexuality is a part of our everyday lives. Orgasm while breastfeeding? I think the jury is officially out, and we are unlikely to come to a sensible conclusion. Does it matter??? If women can experience orgasm while breastfeeding, then good luck to them! ;-) It is a natural body response, and natural body responses are not *good* and they are not *bad*. They are simply that - bodily responses. There is nothing *wrong* with sexual feelings. That is all they are. It is how we respond to those sexual feelings that makes us or breaks us as humans.

Why do pro-breastfeeding and anti-breastfeeding people attack each other? It happens in both directions. It beats me, Ribbit. That's not my scene at all. Breastfeeding speaks for itself.

Love also drives much of our lives, but all our relationships don't end up as loving relationships.

We also have lower level and upper level thinking.

Our lower level thinking is the primitive thinking that happens in the limbic system of the brain. It is about self-preservation, instinctive responses, sex and reproduction, and keeping ourselves fed and sheltered. We are often not even aware of our own lower level thinking.

Upper level thinking is to do with things like choices about how we keep ourselves safe, and conscious risk-taking; measured responses where there are strategies and conscious decision-making and analysis; how we express our sexuality or keep it hidden and in what circumstances; what we eat, where and how; what sort of home we choose, or how we decide to decorate it; how we vote in an election. It is the sophisticated, civilised thinking that enables us to negotiate our way in or complicated lives. It is the free will that the Creator gave us so that we can override the lower level thinking that rules the lives of (other) animals.

Are not humans amazing creatures?

If anyone wants to discuss this further I suggest that we make another topic in the Emotional Issues Forum.

Alemama, sorry your topic got a bit derailed by my comments. It is, I admit, a bit of a Pandora's box.

Louise

I hear you! I'm ready for mine to stop too. The 10 m.o. is fine. The 3+ y.o. .....Well, it's getting old.

I hope your uterus is okay and that it doesn't happen again next month.

Sorry, Louise (and everybody else). Maybe I'm a little touchy. Must be all these breastfeeding hormones.

From what you describe, I don't see anything alarming, alemama. What do you think? Re purging a fibroid - anything is possible depending on what is going on with the other systems of the body.
Timely article that made me think of this thread today:
http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/beauty/does-a-lover-really-have-first...

Yes, Aza, I saw that one too. I guess that article is why I am feeling a little militant at the moment about breasts being for babies and being about the mother/baby relationship, and not primarily about the sexual partner relationship, while lactation is happening. I was actually wandering through a major metro shopping centre only a few hours ago, looking at all the guys I passed, and thinking how stupid a man would be to think that he had primary rights over his woman's boobs. Oh, per-lease! How stupid it would be for a man to be jealous of his baby, and how stupid a woman would be to recognise her man's right to her breasts (let alone her own right) over the rights of their baby. How unfortunate (for want of another word) it would it be for a woman to be revolted by the sensations she experiences during breastfeeding, though I know that some are, which is why I chose 'unfortunate'.

However, I was also reading Alemama's and Ribbit's very realistic descriptions of the antics of older babies and toddlers while at the breast, and how you really do get to the point of wondering what is going on in their little heads! I had a long, indulgent chuckle at these descriptions, Mommas! I remember it so well - the twisted nipples; the taste of a slipper as a little foot ends up in your mouth; The little fingers up your nose, and the whole nappy on your face thing. The only thing going for it is that while they are physically attached, you do know you can shut your eyes and know exactly where they are, and what they are up to! Eventually, I found, they do let go, and go and do something else.

However, then I think about each of them, engaging with me eye to eye, and showing me an estatic, wide, toothy grin, with sparkling eyes, and sometimes a giggle attached, while still milking my breast. That is just classic! I will never forget that. Oh, I'm going all weak at the knees just thinking about it.

Yeah, nobody really asks whether or not the baby is enjoying the breast. There is only one answer to that in my house.

I think if a woman feels that her boobs belong primarily to her lover/partner, then she is looking for a child to nurture, not a real grown up man to love! Likewise, a man who thinks he has boob rights over their baby, is looking for a mother, and not a real live woman to love! I would be sensing trouble ahead.

IMO, the reason there is such a strong connection between uterus and breast is very low level thinking. All men used to be babies, and they know instinctively that a woman will not eat them alive if he handles her breasts skilfully. He will probably entrance her totally if he goes about it the right way, and might even get a bit more, if he is lucky, and he may get nurtured in a very special man-woman way for the rest of his life if he really knows how to press her buttons.

Seduction is his way of ensuring that his genes get passed on to following generations (yeah, I know, I know, breasts are *not* all there is to seduction!), he has a warm, non-life-threatening place to lay his head each night, and somebody to cook and clean his cave, and raise his offspring. If she slaps him in the face the first time he touches her breasts, it does not auger well for his plans for the future, and he'll go off and find another woman to play with.

Likewise, a man who approaches a woman in the guise of a gentle baby in need of suck and nurture, is no threat to her safety, so she is likely to accept his advance as being OK. He may be a threat to her independence and her virginity, but she will be safe with him for now.

Dogs exhibit this sort of behaviour. A dog that is seeking to ingratiate itself to a higher ranking dog will approach at a lower level and lick the higher ranking dog under the chin and on the muzzle, in imitation of a puppy wanting food from its mother's mouth.

Here's something to think about. I think the way a man handles a woman's breasts tells you a lot about how he will relate to the whole woman in the longer term.

Yes, the uterus and the breasts are very closely linked.

L

"I think if a woman feels that her boobs belong primarily to her lover/partner, then she is looking for a child to nurture, not a real grown up man to love!"

Well said, Louise!

I always warn my husband that he's likely to get a handful of milk, but he chuckles and says it doesn't bother him. :) If he can laugh about it, so can I.

All mine have gotten to a place where they wanted to nurse because they were bored. You know, like, "There's nothing interesting to do, so we may as well nurse." LOL I call that Recreational Nursing.

Isn't it wonderful that your babies and you have both had that privilege! Breastmilk is still a superfood in babies' second year and beyond. And it is such fun getting it! Older babies need to learn a few manners though!

A bit like making babies, really! ;-)

DS2 developed deafness and serious glue ear, after weaning at the age of 2 years, 9 months. It wasn't finally diagnosed and treated until he was 4 years 6 months, because his speech and hearing had been excellent, so the telltale poor speech development had not given the child health nurse the normal clues. He had experienced several ear infections as a baby and toddler, which his Dad had also experienced as a littlie, so we don't really know if the infections were the cause or the result of the blocked Eustachian tubes. DH finally had a grommet fitted about five years ago, so it is not only kids!

I am so glad that we continued with nursing until he was ready to wean, both to help his immune system clear with the ear infections that woke him at night, and the milking mechanism that mobilised the area of the problem and soothed him back to sleep. I am sure his speech development would have been affected had he not had the benefit of breastmilk and nursing for that extended period.

Please keep going. It is such a short time in your life, but has such wonderful benefits for the child, at a time of their lives when they are getting social out there in the community, and pick up bugs wherever they go, and from older siblings bringing them home from school!

lucky though, to have been without af so long. I was plenty mad when I got my period at 7 mo pp with a still exclusively bf cosleeping baby.
but there's something oddly comforting in being back in the familiar ebb and flow of things.
I wonder if that weird uterus thing will happen again next cycle or if it was a one-time thing because it had been so long since your last period?

Bah! Just have another baby!

just kidding ...

I hope that comment was meant for alemama and not me, louise!
five's enough for me!

ROFL!

I wondered if any other fish would be biting! ;-)

(Sorry ... couldn't help it)

One of the lovely things about menopause is ...

This too will come to you, in time.

L

:-)

Louise, re: ears, I have something to tell you.

My 3 y.o. is always a little dizzy. She trips over nothing, she stumbles around and falls often and without warning or reason. Her understanding is fine, it seems, but her speech is difficult to understand sometimes (she has trouble with f, th, sometimes s and sometimes r. I took her off gluten to see if that would help with the dizziness, and it did somewhat. She's already off corn, soy and peanuts.

We don't often go to the pediatrician because we don't generally need to, but when I took them in this last winter the doctor said she had some fluid behind her right ear drum. He said it wasn't infected, but it was there. They checked her vision and it seemed fine (we didn't know if maybe she was falling because she couldn't see well). Anyway, I didn't want to give her anything drug-wise for non-infected fluid, so I started using the garlic/goldenseal/othergoodstuff oil I use for ear infections and it really didn't seem to help. So I started dripping breastmilk down in her ear, and when I'm consistent with it, I can tell a difference. When I slack off, she starts falling again. The pediatrician said the ear drum isn't permeable, but my mother said it was, and that whatever oils you put down in there will soak through and help heal an inner ear infection. At any rate, the doctor or my mother either one could be wrong, but it makes sense to me to believe that the eardrum is indeed permeable and that this milk is helping.

HI Ribbit,

I can't add anything to the symptoms that your three year old is experiencing, however, I did want to ease your mind just a little bit with the pronunciation of sounds. I am a first grade teacher and it isn't a HUGE worry if your child does not make the"r" sound or the "th" sound. The speech therapists in our school district will not even want to see a child with these speech problems until they have reached the age of nine for "r" and the age of six for "th". THe other two sounds are usually present by the time your child will begin school. Hopefully this will ease your mind a little.
~Mary Kay

Thank you. The pediatrician wanted me to take her to speech therapy and I'm like, "Um....she's THREE." I told him I'd work with her, and I do.

If it works, that might be enough reason to keep doing it. If the eardrum is permeable (or has a hole - has anyone looked?) it is only breastmilk. If it is not permeable, then the doctor won't be worried, and you are not risking anything.

DS2 had to blow up balloons each night to try and open his eustacian tubes. It might have worked for some, but he still needed grommets. What is the "garlic/goldenseal/othergoodstuff oil" you are talking about?

DS1 had trouble with f's at the same age. eg, a finger came out as "a dwinger". He was not a particularly well coordinated child, andthough he had babyhood and toddler ear infections, he didn't need grommets, but he is fine now (age 27 and much better coordinated). He did have some time with a speech pathologist at age 16, when some learning difficulties were identified. It made a heap of difference to his formal English marks, because he could express his written answers better after the speech therapy. Sounds weird that he could get benefit at that late age, but it worked!

Louise

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Alemama, I am new here and trying to catch up on all the posts. Yours caught my eye because I am nursing my 13.5 month old son and still have lactational ammenorrhea, too (probably because of the constant night nursing -- I can so relate to your exhaustion from that!). In the past couple of days have started feeling a bit crampy but more in the ovary area than the uterus area. So I'm wondering if you had any of that before you had the "gush"?

Sorry to be a total stranger and asking you a personal question!

Carrie

Hi Carrie

Alemama is rather busy with a sick child at the moment, and might not be online for a few days. I am sure she will answer this when she returns. Sorry, but I cannot remember what it was like way back when I has lactational ammenorhea, but many of us have had grumbles of different types when returning to menstruation after babies, and the same sort of grumbles return at the end of menstruation. All very weird.

I just think it is weird that we have to give a hard to spell name to this condition. It is just normal metabolism, after all.

We could just as easily give menstruation a name that means lack of pregnancy but, to my knowledge, we don't have a word for that *very* strange thing that happens to all women.

:-)

Louise, thanks -- you half answered my question and you also made me laugh, which is at least as important.

I hope Alemama's child is not TOO sick and will be well soon!

Carrie

Hello Alemama,

I'm SO glad your son is doing better.

I just got my period back on Saturday. Since my son is still nursing, it kinda shocked the bejeezus out of me, but he is 14 months so I should have seen it coming. I did not have any really weird things happen except one that may or may not have been related: about a week and a half to two weeks ago, I had about four days of feeling like my lower abdomen was full of painful gas, but I wasn't gassy. It didn't feel like menstrual cramps or ovulation pains. Bizarre. I am now in the middle of the heaviest period I've had in my adult life, so I hope this is only because I've gone so long without one, and is not my "new normal" period.

Does a menstrual cycle affect POP? My cervix is the lowest it has ever been, and I can also see a weird lip of something both in front of and behind it, which I am assuming are my cystocele and rectocele, which I have never been able to see before. I'm praying that it's just worse during menstruation for some reason, and not that my POP is progressing.

YES! POP symptoms are really much worse during periods. I was diagnosed at the end of a period and the urogyno said I had a very, very bad prolapse condition requiring three surgeries as soon as he could schedule them. That was last June. Last week, I had my yearly pap smear, and my female homeopathic GP said my prolapses were mild.
Rest easy.
Melly

Melly,

Thanks for responding. I'm glad to hear that. I wonder WHY? Does anyone know?

Carrie

short answer - hormones and blood flow ;)

I don't have POP but the areas of my pelvis / lumbar vertebrae that are really struggling are the ones that flare up hugely on the first day or so of bleeding. It is a great barometer of what is 'out', actually, as if I didn't already know, but it is fascinating how the most pain is in the areas that are already stressed. The same can be said for POP?

The cervix moves naturally during the changing balance of hormones of labor. It faces toward the pubic bone initially and then as labor progresses it moves directly to the back wall and then dilates to allow the baby to be born. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that any time there are hormone imbalances that the cervix moves. This will affect the symptoms of prolapse as well.