Shape Up shoes work with Whole Woman posture?

Dear Bea

I haven't tried those particular brands though I have found wearing flat heeled shoes has stopped my back ache (mid ribs on my left side) caused I think by my prolapse.

Hi Bea

There are some lovely posts on MBTs, shoes similar to Sketchers, just type MBT in the search box and the posts will pop up. Here is one, especially read the post by donjackw, she says there is a DVD available that will show you the benefits of the shoes - MBT post

But, no matter what shoes you wear, your posture is key!

Take a minute to really think about walking in deep sand. Although it feels delicious on a sunny day at the beach, have you tried to walk miles in the sand? It becomes very tiring.

The "negative heel" concept took the world by storm because it fit right in with other anatomical misconceptions, like placing most of your weight on your heels, pulling your thighs back in standing posture, or pulling your abdominal muscles in.

When your heel is lower than the rest of your foot, the ligamentous system at the back of your lower leg and hamstrings ultimately pulls your pelvis down in back. This aids in creating the "neutral pelvis" that the whole world is convinced is a good thing. It is not a good thing, because it places constant stress on your SIJs and destabilizes your pelvic organ support system.

These are simple anatomical realities we can all understand and experiment with.

This is why the dance that you do on your DVD Christine and most 'folk' dancing, is so good for the pelvic floor, a lot of it is done on the toes, only very occasionally does ones weight go onto the heels.

I find it impossible to walk on my toes and slouch at the same time!

Very good insight, PiaMom. The human foot is the most amazing architectural design in the universe (Leonardo said so!) and the reason dancers can be up on demi-pointe or full pointe and have an even higher level of centered balance and "flight" as grounded feet. This is why I have never been down on high-heels. It is all about how you carry yourself when wearing them.

Christine, having said you have never been down on high heels, I think Piamom is right. It is very hard to slouch and stand on your toes at the same time. However, I don't think standing on your toes and standing in high heels are the same. Standing in high heels positions your knees further forwards, so you have to somehow move your centre of gravity back where it belongs. This can be done by locking the knees back, sticking your Marilyn Monroe butt out, throwing your shoulders back or slouching your mid back and throwing your chin out the front. Or some combination of these changes.

The whole body is a rotatable zigzag from mid-foot to top of the skull. This is because we need to be able to adjust each bit, according to whether we are trying to get maximum pendulum action while swinging through the trees Jane and Tarzan style, or climbing a very steep hill, or coming down the other side.

When we stand on our toes nothing in the zigzag is fixed, so all our muscles need to be engaged to keep us balanced. 'On the toes' is the position of preparedness for movement. It is where we get the spring to move off somewhere else.

When we rest on our stilettos, so to speak, the ankle locks in one position, and we are unable to allow it to respond to what the rest of our body needs to do.

Even kangaroos, rabbits, dogs and cats rest on their heels when at sitting, but they have fur on their 'heels', whereas we have plantar skin, with a grippy fingerprint type surface under our heels. The basic model is the same, but, being bipedal, I think, we use our heels differently. We (and other primates) are *designed* to put some weight on our heels, when we land in walking gait, but the impetus for taking off is always the springy arch and the toes. The other animals walk on their toes all the time, but they use their upper body as much as their lower body for ambulation.

They also have to eat by positioning their mouth wherever their food is, whether at ground level or up in the treetops, so they need a strong neck, and strong upper body musculature to control that neck as well as ambulate. Their necks are a counterweight that they throw up and to eg, the off side to initiate ambulation, to transfer the weight off the front near leg they are moving. They transfer the lower body weight in the other direction, to the off hind leg to stop themselves falling over sideways to the off side. This is why they naturally walk with the front legs moving the opposite way to their back legs. We mirror that with our gait, with the left foot and right arm moving forward and the reverse.

Got a bit off the topic there, but a *fixed* high heel definitely limits the range of movement of the body by limiting ankle movement, an thereby the body's ability to spring off. I often see women in high heels with their knees locked, calf muscles tight, belly protruding, pelvis tilted back, upper back rounded and chin jutting. And we wonder why women develop upper spine fractures when their bones become brittle in old age????? The corollary of this is (I think?) that a woman who slouches in high heels has to lock her knees and tilt her pelvis back to prevent herself falling forwards. This is so easily set in place by the rounded, slouched shoulders and folded arms of the self-conscious or insecure teenaged girl (or boy, for that matter).

Try walking over soft wet sand. Yes, your heels dig in in the footprint that you leave, but so do your toes, when you walk on. I find the easiest way to walk in really deep, dry sand is to dig my toes in, and use my foot as a shovel. I guess I am walking on my toes, actually.

Louise

You are right, Louise. I should've said, high heels are controversial.

Are you sure the knees move their position forward in heels as opposed to demi-point (which, btw, is standing on your metatarsals)? How do you come to that conclusion?

Walking in heels is another ball of wax. They are really no different than a flat shoe with a very skinny heel, as toe and heel are on the same plane. However, the foot must gerrymander a heel-toe gait while in demi-point. I suppose the closest thing to walking on your toes would be a super high heel that you kinda shuffle along in.

I've recently had a very interesting conversation about ankle stability, injury and recovery. The conclusion of this conversation being that modern day humans are ruining their bodies from the feet up. We only walk on flat surfaces and in padded shoes. We have decreased strength in our ankles and feet and have severely underdeveloped musculature there. This weakness has a profound effect on the entire body.
To remedy this you can walk in the sand, walk up uneven trails, stand on a stability ball while doing chores like dishes, hold your leg out and *draw* the alphabet with your big toe (I tried this one- it made my entire lower leg, ankle and foot tired), and go barefooted often.
I'm enjoying the conversation about shoes but prefer to go with out them anytime it's acceptable.

If you draw a series of lines, say, 1" apart on a piece of card. Stand flat footed, in front of a mirror, side on, with the card propped up behind your feet, lines vertical. Measure the length of your foot in 'lines', between the back of your heel and the front of your toes. Now rise up on your toes, note how many lines your heel has moved forward. Your toes are in the same spot, so your ankles have moved forward.

As your knees are above your ankles your knees have to move forward with the ankles, but in practice you move your upper body backwards again to stop yourself falling forwards, so the knees come back when the butt goes out. Does that make sense? You could test it by using striped fabric or wallpaper, and measuring your own shadow.

Re demi-point, yes, but the height of the heel is still not completely fixed, and you use your *knees* in demi-point. I guess that it would not be possible to walk at all in demi-point with locked knees. At the very least it would be very hard on the pelvis and lower back. Think Chinese bound feet. They walk on the balls of the feet with a locked ankle and absent or grossly deformed toes. Those ladies are not running anywhere soon!

It is the reduction in movement of the ankle, and the consequent loss of zigzagness and shock absorption by the arch that worries me about high heels.

I'm with you Alemama. Bare feet and flexible soled uggies in winter, whenever I can. Flipflops, aka thongs or jandles, are second best to bare feet when toe freezing weather has left. We have a lot of pea gravel and prickles at our place, but it is strictly barefoot inside . I don't mind wearing quite high heels, but only for dancing or sitting. If I have to go to a party or anywhere I have to stand for a long time, or walk a distance, it is strictly flats.

I have just bought new farm workboots. They have strong, elastic sides, a quite rigid sole and are made of quite thick, rigid leather. I know they will loosen up with time, and conform to my foot, but I can't yet walk smoothly in them. I feel all jerky because my foot and ankle are held quite stiff in them. I imagine my knees and hips would get quite tired if I had to walk a distance in them.

It makes me wonder if old people with misshapen feet would be better off wearing soft, flexible, fairy slippers with wide, well-padded soles, than stiff, laced "support" shoes.

I have only a minute, but this old ballerina and high heel lover would like to comment . . . The heel is fixed in full demi-pointe, or balance would not be possible. Too wobbly to lever to and fro. When I am on releve, the upper body moves forward over the metatarsals to keep from falling, not back. It is next to impossible to fall "over" a releved foot but very easy to fall back to a flat foot. And, walking on demi-pointe with locked knees is absolutely possible as the metatarsals take over with a kind of minute heel to toe motion of their own. But maybe I am misunderstanding what you were trying to describe? I personally find being in heels helps me pull more into ww posture and a night out in them does not affect my pop. But I'm also a sucker for a 4" platform Frye boot :-). Again, sorry if I misunderstood your description, Louise! I'm burning my candle at both ends and sometimes reading faster than I can comprehend the information!

Wow! Isn't the human body amazing! I was just surmising what might be the case. Thanks for clarifying. I am still not convinced that you can even lock your knees on demi-pointe, because you have to engage so many muscles, front and back, so the knee is straight (unless you choose to bend it). To me, knees locked is quite relaxed, ie leg muscles are soft, not engaged. As soon as you engage any leg muscles the knee will unlock.

I would have to add that ballet is an athletic activity. You have to train the body to do it. I am really talking about using the body to its capacity, and using all its features in everyday movement. That means using more muscles rather than less, and using more joints rather than less, for any activity we engage in. That way we stress each joint or muscle less and balance loads, which hopefully will prolong the body's useful life.

I am not an expert on feet and legs by any stretch of the imagination (or the hamstrings for that matter). Every muscle and bone we have has at least one function. I am interested in finding out how and why. Discussing it on here is one way I can test out theories and get closer to the truth by discussing it with others who are more knowledgeable than I am.

I figure that I was created with heels that sit on the ground and arches so I could rise up on tippy toes, and toes that spread out to balance me. My body needs to do a bit of each to stay healthy. Stilettos or ballet pumps 24/7 would not allow me to do that. Bare feet do. I wear high heels sometimes, but when my feet and legs are under the pump I would rather be as flat as possible, with plenty of room available for my toes, and a full range of ankle movement.

Science has done a dreadful job of describing the workings of the female body. Women do it better! :)

a subject i kept meaning to post about!
I recently had a whole shoe journey. It started with trying on a pair of Wolky sandals with a think chunky sole, and i was in heaven. my pelvic (form symphesis pubis in pregnancy) felt the best it had in ages. i could stay in WW posture. i was in love.
i went into another shoe shop a week later, and tried on Earth shoes--they put your weight on your heals. instantly my back, hips and pelvis hurt and i struggled with WW posture. it was awful. the shop assistant said i needed to "get used to them"
no thank you!

went to another shop (was on a mission) and found the most knowledgeable person re shoes! she found me others ones that i could wear in winter (can only wear open toed sandals for so many months (or weeks!) in lovely England... cork insoles, firm but supportive... again, no pain, and a good spread across the feet to allow good posture.
i tried on a bunch of others, and could really feel that some supported WW posture, and others went against it.
to me, anything that says "good for posture" is an instant steer clear. MBT's just felt plain weird to me, and i couldn't imagine staying in WW posture in those.

also i find my pelvis really hurts in anything too thin, which tells me it's rattling my bones! so i came back and got rid of all the shoes that weren't great for my body but i was holding onto for some crazy reason, and am living in the ones that are. and how much better i feel!

ive recently been on a bit of a shoe hunt, and came across crocs, sort of soft spongey clogs. apparently they are good for feet as they allow the foot to spread and move. im wondering if they might support my body in whole woman posture?i walked around in them in the shop and my back felt good, not so achey with movement.
Anyone worn crocs and experienced the effect on posture?

loving the shoe discussions, i struggle with finding clothes and shoes that are supportive of the way i now hold my body,and dont squeeze at the middle...that i also like and feel good wearing.

i have the original, chunky crocs and those feel fine. i also had some of the more "delicate" mary janes, and they make my pelvis ache and feel POP more, think they don't pad enough... but with the chunk y ones i feel fine.
i guess question is with clogs, can you stay in posture and keep them on your feet?
no idea--others might know...

I used to only ever wear flat shoes, one pair at a time until they fell apart.

Then, in my late 20s, having already been a regular sufferer of foot, leg and back trouble (back since the age of 17, foot diagnosed with arthritis at the age of 23, but now symptom free at 37!), I started wearing different shoes, including heels, occasionally, and I have found this change has done my feet and my posture overall a world of good!

It's a question of finding a shape and height of heel that works for you. I find that a heel, even a fairly flat 1-2" one, can massively aggravate my back IF THE HEEL GOES STRAIGHT DOWN at the back, however, if the heel curves in and sits under the center of my foot's heel, I can comfortably wear a 4" heel for hours. If you looked at the body from the side with a plumb line going down you want the heel to be where the plumb line meets the ground, not further forward or back.

I have been wearing MBT shoes and their Scholl equivalent extensively for since about 2006 and I have found, like Christine says about walking on sand, they overwork your leg muscles, then as you tire, your posture slumps and you're really in dire straights. Initially I usually experience a great sense of back relief and balance when putting them on, but I would say no more than 2 hrs at a time (says she, having walked round the Botanical Gardens for 7 hours on the darn things 10 days ago and completely done her back in... - duh!).

Also walking on tip-toes has occasionally given me great relief from back pain when it was at its worst, I have even considered taking up Ballet recently, because I feel drawn to doing more on tip-toes since my prolapse.

I am finding out things about feet that I never would have worried about in my 30's or 40's. I will now no longer cram my feet into anything that doesn't give my toes plenty of room. It is pathetic how badly the feet can be deformed by shoes over the years. I always thought I was being sensible, avoiding heels and any footwear that crammed my toes together. But I guess not careful enough, because now I am trying to nip bunions in the bud. And it is working! I am trying to keep my toes apart and my big toe more or less straight up and down. Spending lots of time high up on the toes. Christine is so right about all this. I'm glad I have WW posture under my belt, because it frees my mind to think about my feet! Now I'm trying to re-train them!

So Sekhmet, you may be too young to be starting with these old-lady toe issues, but keep it in mind. I haven't seen too many high-heeled shoes that look healthy for the toes. - Surviving

Dear S60,
Isn't it wonderful that there are so many benefits from our WWwork.
One of the benefits I have noticed is that my developing bunion on my right foot is now not there anymore.

Christine wrote that driving with constant foot flexion of the right foot has some bearing on the development of bunions, & the common hip problems of the right leg.

Sekhmet
Shoes with high heels throw off balance, centre of gravity, and correct posture, & many conventional exercise styles which tuck in the stomach & the bottom, also contibute, to these issues (prolapse aside ). Full foot flexion including the toes, while walking is necessary for balance, & the foot arch etc. Really flat shoes are not good if full foot flexion is not used while walking, enabling the foot arch to flatten, otherwise they could be ok.

At the shops, I observed only one older man with man sandles on, walking with full foot flexion & using his toes. Others were walking flat footed, shuffling, leaning on shopping carts ( supermarket trolleys), some not using their legs at all & lifting their hips up & down to move, most people with their feet facing everywhere but parallel, & one young adult actually walking on her heels in sport shoes!! Children were using their whole foot if their footwear allowed. ) - :

What I really want to add, is that when going through my old DVDs, I came across a yoga one. As soon as I put it on, the instructor's huge bunions on both feet were impossible to miss. Her toes were quite straight, so I don't think shoes were the cause of her bunions....And it was conventional yoga, where they had their balance on the heel of the foot, stomach pulled in, bottom tucked, & arms & shoulders pulled back severely. I feel saddened & concerned by how common beliefs are so unquestioningly believed.
It is good to know what to look out for with what we now know .

In our journey together,
Aussie Soul Sister