hopeless?

Hi Meribelle,

That is not how I understand the FAQ and not in the spirit it was written. Logic dictates that you need to hold your organs over and in front of your pubic bones at least as much as the rest of us. We just don't have the same level of results from post-hysterectomy women as we have from wombed women.

I am researching possible spinal issues in the post-hysterectomy woman as best I can, since there is literally nothing in the orthopedic or gynecologic literature on the subject. The muscular uterus and its attachments, which are connected to the sacrum in back, *must also help pull the sacrum* down and forward by way of the round ligaments coming off the front of the uterus, traveling down the sides of the abdominal wall, and embedding into the labia surrounding the vagina.

Without this "nutating" effect of the uterus/round ligaments, I believe the sacrum lifts up, becoming more vertical and less horizontal. Gravity would then pound on L5 (the last lumbar vertebrae) causing it to become "sacralized", or entrapped in between the hipbones. Why else would so many post-hyst women develop that very common lower back that is flattened of its natural lumbar curve? Talk about studies! My G-d, this needs scientific attention!! If the modern medical world truly cared about women.

Therefore, if this is true, post-hyst women should do all they can to cultivate WW posture, which naturally expands the lumbar curve. They should apply gentle pressure to their sacroiliac joints by wearing belts that are low in front and higher in back.

The major fly in the ointment is the woman who is several years post-op and who already is exhibiting these skeletal changes. It is she who has tremendous backpain from sacrilization of L5. Whether this can be reversed is highly dubious at this point in time.

I hope this helps you to see that WW posture and hysterectomy is not a “hopeless” situation. Hysterectomy is a brutal operation with far-reaching effects that are completely unknown to the people doing and receiving the operation.

(((hugs))) from Christine

I felt the same way as the OP. I just discovered this site, Christine, and her materials and only read the FAQ comment about post hysterectomy women after I purchased the book and DVD. I was so disheartened. I believe I have a bowel (rectocele) prolapse going on right now. I had a vaginal hysterectomy 10 years ago for a uterine prolapse. The Dr. also did a bladder tuck and left 1 overy. I had NO idea of the ramifications of surgery. I do not want to repeat the mistake, so I'm commiting to doing whatever I can to manage my prolapse.

Yesterday was the first day I went thru the whole exercise DVD. I was very conscious of my posture all day too. Amazingly, my "bulge" only began to show when I sat to try and go to the bathroom. The past few days, before any posturing, etc., the bulge was quite prominant more than it wasn't. It seems the posturing made a difference.

So, I'm hoping the exercises and posturing will at least buy me some time before surgery becomes the only option remaining.

Thank you Christine. I believe there is hope for post op women.

Hi and welcome, Cecilly,

I am so happy to hear that you are feeling improvement! If WW techniques can even stabilize the post-hysterectomy pelvis it will be...momentous!!

Please keep us posted, as it is this population we need to gather the most data on.

Wishing you well!

Chrisitne

Thank you Christine...I really respect what you're trying to do here to help women btw. Ok, a little update, this week I've done either the whole or most of the WW workout (except for this morning). While I had to make a few "adjustments" (I generally use a tampon to help get my retrocele bulge back in place (or at least to where I can't see or feel it) each day, things felt soooo much more stabalized...except for today. I could really tell a difference this morning not doing any of the posturing exercises.

The other thing tho, is that I notice my issue only rears its head when I either get that full feeling before relieving my bowels, or after doing so. I am very careful to not strain and to eat plenty of high fiber food to keep things moving, but in this wonderful peri-menopause stage of my life, the plumbing is just more sluggish.

So, I have committed to doing your exercises EVERY day no matter if I have to get up at 5 AM to fit them in. If I don't, I know I will be dealing with my POP more intensely, and sometimes I just get so tired of my body constantly reminding me of my issue with that "weird" feeling down below (as everyone here knows what I mean).

Thanks again for all you're doing. I've learned so much.

I am also new here. I'm making my way through Christine's book and dvd's. I was also somewhat disheartened at some of what I read, thinking...so I'm an "incomplete woman." I had a hysterectomy and my ovaries removed 11 years ago. I had fibroid tumors and was in tremendous discomfort from them. Unfortunately, I didn't know the information about WW and I put my trust in my OBGYN. I think I did this because it was the way I was raised. You trusted the Doctor. He's an expert. He knows what's best. I really think this was behind my thinking back then. That coupled with the desperation I was feeling from the fibroid tumors... coupled with the fact that my mom had had a hysterectomy and seemed to be fine with it in every respect. The doctor wanted me to have my ovaries removed at the same time. It's funny, I remember him using those same phrases that Christine sites: "useless organ" "bucket with a hole in the bottom" "ticking time bomb." I did fine for about 11 years post op. Recently I started having more and more discomfort from prolapse. I think it is my bladder from what I'm reading. I have an appointment with an OBGYN, but it's mainly for diagnosis. I don't feel hopeful that I will be offered any real solutions beyond doing kegals. I've been doing kegals. Hundreds of them. You're supposed to do thousands of them for them to be effective, but I don't think I have the attention span for that quite frankly. Even so, they don't make a difference that is positive. I've been trying to adopt the ww posture. It's incredibly challenging! I've been taught to stand like a soldier my whole life since I was a child! Another complication is that I had a total knee replacement on my left side...I can't actually kneel. Also I have Psoriatic Arthritis, and osteoarthritis AND I have hyper-mobility so those present additional challenges. When I try to adopt the ww posture, my knees totally want to bend back out. They want to do that any way I stand! However, I feel determined to address all these conditions with diet and lifestyle. I'm going to do the best I can with the exercises, modifying them when necessary. I'm 57. I think I'm way too young to feel this old.

Hi owess and welcome. We love to hear from post-hyst members who are trying this work. While understanding that your results may not live up to what some others may experience, it can do you nothing but good! Even without the help of the round ligaments of the uterus to pull the remaining organs forward, you can still help them to get there by cultivating this postural work.

That being said, post-hyst women can have different back and hip issues than the rest of us, and you seem to have a few other things thrown into the mix! So do take it slow and let your body tell you how much is enough.

You can feel free to drop the kegels from your routine. I did them faithfully for decades so I know they don't help. My time here at WW has taught me that they actually work against the natural mechanics of where we want our organs to be! If you haven't already, click over to the Blog and look for Christine's article called "Just Do Yer Kegels".

You are clearly on the right track for your health and well-being. Because this postural work is so basic to health, we need help from women like you to prove that WW is for all women. It's all about avoiding surgical repairs and keeping our health in our own hands. This is a great community and this work has been life-changing for me. Please keep posting! - Surviving

Thank you for the welcome and the kind words, Survivor 60. I really appreciate them. I will certainly continue to post since I intend to be hanging around this neighborhood a lot. It seems like my only hope. I'm willing to say at this point,I can see some benefit to the posture. It's odd but simply having the alternative visual of the pelvis seems helpful. Is like I know where my pelvic organs *belong*; they belong above my pubic bone...which is something I still have! Also, I'm inspired by what can be achieved in spite of what's gone before. And I'm especially glad I found this community for the simple reason that I don't have to feel I'm facing this situation alone. Thank you especially for that.

I'm back and jumping around .... searching and reading ... well, ahhem, I'm here for hours every day (it's funny how many times, I've searched and ended up reading the same pages over and over -- but that helps the memory. :) )

I've just now read this page of posts.

As a newbie back in April, my heart stopped beating and shriveled up (well, it felt like that) and I stopped breathing. Because, some where on the WW site, then, I read an article or a post by Christine that stated vaginal vault is inevitable with a post-hysterectomy women (INEVITABLE!!! Yikes! Doomed, since I'll probably still be living 15 more years, or more, maybe) . I tried to find those words again, but could not just now. I am sure I have it saved out some where -- but my prolapse materials that I am saving out are growing and growing (I may have to buy one or two more computers. LOL). This POP life is costing me lots of money!

So, for me, it is easy to feel hopeless. It is a roller coaster .... one day, I can do anything my brain & heart says and then the next day .... hopeless & grieving. Heck, maybe hour by hour. Especially, since my interest in life entails a hobby where I need to move gear around and get my speed up faster than a walk, and twist, turn and bend, and pull and push .....so my investments in gear and training (a little bit here & there over the years so I could afford it) is huge if I tally it up over the last 11 years (and I feel like I am letting down my wonderful, sweet dog, who has trained with me for those 11 years and in a few years won't be able to do our hobby). And in January last year, a competition venue came to our area! And on Facebook and on online courses, I watch and root for all of my friends in that little world that I no longer feel a part of...but I still want to continue with .. but I am SCARED to death to try.

Then, as I search around, I get different comments that I read (maybe because some are years old and some are newer) about for hysterectomy .... wear a support garment / wear belts higher in back, lower in front .... then the next comment I find says, why are you wearing that garment so long? -- you should be working on the posture and not rely on a garment.

I don't need any replies because they would be repeating over and over (and I do not want to tax anyone's energy, nor the site moderators). I just had to vent; and I offer huge apologies for that!

hugs

My heart goes out to you, back in time.

I think you will find conflicting information on the forum because of the different time periods things were posted, that you already noted, and the fact that the forum really is just opinion based. Everyone has one. I think most importantly is that we are learning this along with you post hyst gals also.

Weed through and take what you find most valuable from these forums, would be my advice.

Please keep posting. It is obviously a good way for you to vent, and a good learning experience for the rest of us.

Best wishes to you and that more enlightenment and healing will come your way soon.

My grandmother had a hysterectomy in her forties. She lived to be 87 and walked and hiked miles and miles each week and lived a more active full life than many women half her age. Did she suffer from vaginal vault? I don't honestly know the answer to this but I doubt it. To her last days she was hale and hearty. The striking things I remember about her now that I'm dealing with prolapse issues of my own are how much walking she did. Two or three times a day with her dogs. And how good her posture was. Even in her eighties she held herself beautifully. And the last thing I remember and that strikes me now is how light she always seemed to eat. Little and often. I wouldn't be surprised now if I learned that she had prolapse issues (she was a great one for hgh fiber diets) but she never needed any further surgery or seemed to suffer in any way that we could see. She is my inspiration.

I think there was a time when vault prolapse was so common after hyst, that doctors started doing a sacrocolpopexy routinely with a hyst in order to help prevent that. You may have had this procedure, which is one reason that post-hyst needs to be gentle on themselves. However, there are other variables such as vaginal length, and also, MOST IMPORTANTLY, whether or not you have learned how to carry yourself, using the posture and tools that help you keep the remaining organs forward. That's what this work is all about! Hang in there! - Surviving

Thank you Ladies! I really appreciated your comments, thoughts, and information!

Miss Diagnosed -- your grandmother is an inspiration to me, also! I, also, wonder as to whether my Mom had POP. She was a firecracker and very independent .... as she aged, she seemed to have difficulty with stress (during holidays, she would say she was sick and needed to rest (of course the commotion of the grand/great grand children was a lot because of their excitement). She lost her husband 23 years before she died and she continued to run the business and several of her children always needed her help (not me....I was as deeply independent as she was). She like alone times where she good rest and nap, after she did lots of her work. I remember as a wee one that I overheard that she was needing to have a medical procedure done, but I did not understand and cannot remember about it).

I had a tsunami or events starting in 2014 - thru 2015. Tons of stress from outside, uncontrollable events. To name a few .... lots of storm damage the two of us had to take care of outdoors; hubby got lingual hernia in June 2014 & was set for surgery in Nov 2014 (but I got some sort of a reaction that appeared to be a cold, which he caught for about a week .... so we cancelled his surgery & then had to wait until January 2015 (and all that time I had a dry cough, night & day; my ribs, abdomen, diaphragm were all so sore from it! In Feb 2015, I helped with a dog competition and stupidly moved around heavy hay bales; then in March 2015, I helped at a new, local, dog competition and lifted a set of tunnel sand bags (that really created a strange feeling in my insides....afterward I learned that they were way overweight (on purpose for more safety). The first one I lifted and tested for its weight and I and analyzed my body, but felt no pain whatsoever, so I continued. [grrrr!], All during mid-2014 and beginning 2015 -- loads of stress due to new neighbor trespassing and attempting to intimidate us threats/(pure elder abuse) and take part of our property hostile (lots of attorney fees, police calls, bad feelings, and expenses in us putting up solid 6ft fencing after going thru a stalemate and us deciding to go ahead and have the fence installed and encase the shrubs he planted on our property (day the final part of the fence was going up, he hired a landscaping service to dig back out the shrubs and move them onto his property -- about 50 feet of shrubs). And so much more (we have an unstable neighbor; we've lived her 41 yrs so we're leaving. But, he now is aware that he cannot push us around, even tho he's tried to get the county on us for a silly reason/he lost. So while all was havoc at end of March, I used the bathroom at same time I had anger, stress, frustration, being rushed, etc., and I got 2 nuggets stuck right at the exit (1/4 out) .... jammed there. So, dumb me, thought well what if I pushhhhhh, worst thing? maybe a hernia ..... so I got into a terrible position (looking back from what I have now learned about toileting) and I PUSHED and even squeaked from it. Nope, had to manually pull/dig the little wedged balls out. Then several days later ..... hmmm, feels funny. Then got appointment set for following week and ...... yep, you have a cystocele. [so, I let it happen to me].

Not to mention, that before the POP events .... and still now, that I help mow, on a huge riding mower, our 3 acres (that must have had livestock on it at one time, because it is a rough, rough, bouncing ride .... enough that when I would be done, on several occasions, my gut insides felt like I'd spent an hour plus inside a paint can being harshly shaken around and jiggled. But, in a few seconds the strange feeling would be gone. (I mowed once then .... with a big couch cushion to set on and driving the mower very slow and not fast like I used to (it was fun).

So .... I did lots of damage to myself .... permanent, looks like. IF I would have known and would have been told by doctors .... I would have not engaged in what I did. Water under the bridge now.

Thank you so much for letting me vent!!!! Some member said .... and I just now forgot your name .... I read it in a post this a.m. ------ the healing of your spirit is as important as the healing of your body -- for us all, I mean. It's devastating to be out of control. Right now, my spirit is broken. But I do have a long history of always bouncing back from difficulties and I will with this one, too .... at some time.

OKay -- I've written another book. It's supposed to rain soon, so hubby is saying let's get our dog walk in now. So must go. I won't even re-read or proof this ... just hitting send.

Thank you Everyone for support and help!