self pity

hi there squeak
I'm not caught up on the last few days worth of posts so will assume you are new and pp?
if so, welcome and congrats : )

don't know about the woman in the book, but in real life self pity has its place. while wallowing in it wont get you anywhere, indulging in a bit of it allows you to grieve. and allows you to recognize that for right now you are in a fragile place.
I've had babies like those, the ones who rarely sleep and require endless walking. its grueling. the sleep deprivation is brutal. the physical stamina you need is surprising. you know in your head it will pass at some point but it seems like there is no relief in sight.
and with a new prolapse, you need some help and support, mama. you dont' have to scoot around on your hands and bum to get dinner on the table every night.
you WILL get back to being that strong woman you know yourself to be. but even the strong have setbacks and periods of time when it is appropriate to rest a bit. this may be your time.
give some thought about sharing this with your dh, especially if he is the type to take over a bit and give you time to rest and a shoulder to lean/cry on.
you are not damaged, this is not a life sentence. you will be ok. but for right now, go easy on yourself.

Welcome Squeak,
I too am a bit behind on posts...but welcome.
I agree with gmom--you can't do it all, don't. When i found my POP I told everyone. I was a wreck, and needed all the support i could get. So all the great women in my life knew, and they were amazing. You really learn who your supporters are--the friend i called in tears when i realised what the bulge was, who came to take me to the doctor right then and there. The friend who would come over, from across town, and do my dishes. The friend who would call and say "just cooked you dinner--should i drop it off now or in an hour?" the friends who held my baby and walked with him as he too would only sleep whilst i was upright. all the friends who did, and still do, carry the heavy stuff for me and make sure i didn't lift anything i didn't want to. as my little one got older they carried him when i just couldn't, they lifted him from high up ladders in the playground, and they kept on lifting my stuff. they were, and still are, amazing.
but they had to know. they had to know why i was a wreck, and what i needed to get better.
your friends and family need to know too! yes, it's our vaginas--but nothing to be ashamed of. choose who to tell--i don't announce it to my workmates, but my boss at the time knew...to anyone else, bad back works fine too.

along that journey, i worked on the posture, rested when i could, lay down when baby would let me, and put my mind to healing.
things will get better. do you have the DVD? really work on the posture. put baby down on the ground and firebreath next to her, it's only for a few moments. she might laugh ;-) do a few deep plies a day--you can hold her whilst you do it.
you'll build up and get there.

you aren't alone--ensure people know, and know you have support here too!

Hi squeak,

Its ok to feel how you are feeling. You are still adjusting to what has happened to you. You probably feel your body has failed you ...maybe you are being too harsh on it. It is now trying to do it's best and heal - but may need some outside help to take the strain off. There is no need to be a martyr and do it all if you can find some support from others. Allowing your body to rest and recuperate is important, if you can catch up on sleep it will help with your healing. Reaching out and being able to accept help is important, because as a new Mother you are doing so much giving.

This will pass, as the weeks slip by you will probably have ups and downs, but slowly improve and feel more confident in your body again. It is doing it's best, it is still strong, it just needs a bit of time. Maybe some hands on therapist may be able to nurture your body to help it along on it's healing journey. You are adjusting your posture and this will help and you can do this all through the day.

There are lots of ideas on this forum, hopefully some will inspire you. I can only say from my own experience that it is worth persisting with getting help from different avenues, be it some sort of emotional counselling, physical therapies such as chiropractic, gentle exercises, taking care of your diet and nutrition, talking to good friends and being open about what has happened and what you need. I hope you can see the light at the end of the tunnel soon.

After saying all this I want to acknowledge how sometimes it can just make you angry and sad and think its not fair and why me, you cry to let it all out - and all this is ok, just know that is only part of it and don't get stuck there.

I totally understand about walking your baby to get her to sleep. My first child was like that - hours and hours of walking with her in a sling to keep her calm and sleeping. I was a wreck. I don't know how old your baby is, but mine grew out of it by 14 weeks. I was finally able to put her in a bassinet to sleep and even though she never slept long, it allowed me to get off my feet for a bit. I am now 12 weeks postpartum with my second child, and I am so grateful that she sleeps really well and is generally a very calm baby (except in the car seat or stroller), because I don't know how I would have done the same thing with her with my brand new POP.

My first, who is now 3 years old, still requires constant attention from me, still asks me to pick her up to hug her or carry her when she's upset, and I really wish I could do that for her. I think back at the times before my POP - bringing her to music class and dancing, often holding her up in my arms while we danced; wearing her in my Ergo carrier until she was 2 years old, etc. I feel resentful and guilty that I won't be able to do those things with my second child. My husband reminds me that she doesn't need the same things as our first did, and that I simply need to give her what she needs and not what our first needed.

I do feel that, as mothers, we give our children what they need regardless of how it affects us, but there are certain situations where we have no choice. I know it's hard to listen to a baby cry when you know all you need to do is carry her to make her feel better. For example, I walk 3.5 miles a day to bring my daughter to and from preschool. My newborn hates the stroller, but is in it for 3.5 miles a day. I can't change that - I don't have a car during the day (we can't afford 2 cars) and we've got to get to school. So, instead of worrying about it, I decided to take a major boulevard to get there so that I don't hear her crying. Some days I wear my iPod. Whatever works. I know that she'll grow out of it, but until then, I have to survive, right?

Your baby will grow out of this, and then you will feel okay about putting her down to do some exercises. Until then, maybe you could just put her down for 5 minutes at a time, knowing that she'll probably cry, but also knowing that you need to do certain things for yourself. Put on some music, or even the hairdryer (that worked with my first - it gave me 3-5 minutes sometimes to wash my face and get dressed).

And TELL YOUR HUSBAND!!! My poor hubby is practically a therapist at this point. And husbands know that your body is what it is because you have done the baking and birthing of your family. He will help you, but only if he knows that he has to.

I have not posted much on the forum yet - too busy with the baby - but if you read my first post you will see how desperate I have felt. In the past 4 weeks since joining WW, I think I have become less depressed about it all. Mainly, I've decided that I can live with my new, weird vagina if my symptoms improve. I can live with the general yuckiness of it all if I can pick up my children and hold them and run after them. This all remains to be seen, but just believing that I can live with it is a big step for me. I hope you can believe it, too.

Christina

You newly birthed Mamas are right in it at the moment, and feel like this is forever. Believe us. This does pass. You will be able to lift heavy loads. You will probably be able to carry your babies/toddlers once you learn ways that work for your POPs. You can also learn to live some more of your life down near floor level, where we would do more of our mothering without all our chairs, benches and tables. Getting up and down off the floor is very good strength building exercise for our thighs, abs and other lower body bits. Who needs a gym? You will learn how to do it intuitively by sticking your butt out, bending over from the hips first, then from the knees and ankles last. Use the whole Z shape to minimise the load on any one joint.

Squeak, sorry for the technical post about muscles and bones. Print it off and look at it when you are ready for it. I had to consult my anatomy resources to write it. You won't understand it all in one reading.

Your bodies will eventually return to being strong and capable and autonomous. Just use what help you can for now. It really does take a village to raise a child. And sometimes you need to do stuff the hard way to get it done. We have all done it, and it hasn't killed any of us yet. It just makes us more resourceful. Christina, I always knew hair driers had another use. LOL!!

Louise

In my bleary sleep deprived desperation I fell upon this technique:

- wear baby in moby wrap (there are different brands too)
- bounce on large exercise ball
- sit with bum sticking out of course, in WW posture fashion

Hey Squeak, I just realised that nobody has yet explained to you the nature of postpartum prolapse.

The big picture is that it takes about two years for your body to revert after pregnancy. It can take an enormous amount of patience and seems to take forever.

The small picture is that you might find that your POPs get worse over the next couple of months, and we don't really know why. You might feel like your world is caving in. Don't worry. This passes, and by 6 to 9 months you will start to experience some real improvement.

It is like there is a lot of pregnancy bulk left in your pelvis and abdomen after pregnancy which somehow acts initially as a pessary, then as it goes away your POPs rear their ugly little heads. Then at about four to six months the real reversion starts happening, slowly at first. By about 9 months you will probably find that you are not as uncomfortable as you were and your symptoms have lessened. By 2 years postpartum you will beback to as close to pre-pregnant as you will ever get, but I think there are subtle improvements for a couple of years after that again.

So don't think you will be like this forever.

I am sad to hear that you don't feel ready to share this with your husband, but you are the best judge of that. When you have a little baby is no time to rock the apple cart relationship-wise. However, no doubt your husband is picking up from you that all is not well, and he is probably worried sick about you. If you can find a way to tell him that your vulva and vagina are still pretty weird, but that they will eventually get better, I am sure that he will feel more reassured.

I wouldn't even think about sex until you are feeling better in yourself. Many women dread having sex the first time after having a baby. I was no exception, particularly after our first. That is a challenge for another day. We have read time and time again on the Forums of women who are quite unenthusiastic about returning to sexual relations, but we always seem to be able to talk them around, and I have yet to hear of a woman who has not found it better than they expected. It is all a matter of preparation, lubrication and being gentle, just to get used to it again. Men don't generally understand what the big deal is. It really doesn't feel very different for them., which is an enormous relief for them (and you as well). The difficulty is really in our minds.

I really think that most women are wired to pay attention to their baby, and not their mate, in the first few months, so that the mum doesn't go off looking for fun and leave her baby to be gobbled up by a wild animal. If I was God I think I would organise it like that, but I would also endow dads with more patience when they have little babies!

Take it all slowly.

Louise

Well thankyou Squeak. I get a buzz when somebody benefits from my raves.

I only wish WW had been around when I was having my babies in the 1980's. Your little daughter and the girl babies of all our Members are so lucky to have been born now. I think their development into women will be a lot smoother than my generation. However, they will no doubt have other challenges.

Babies are indeed miraculously complete right from birth. You are so right!

Re DH, don't worry too much about trying to see that he is interested. I will tell you a little story. A few years ago my marriage was on the rocks, and I eventually left my husband for a few weeks, before we had a miracle, I returned home and the rest is history. It had never been a deliriously happy marriage for me. He had hardly said a word to me for several weeks, instead communicating with me via our kids. I could not engage him in conversation. Sex, and even affection, were non-existent. As it turned out, he had some other work stuff happening that he thought was putting our personal assets at risk. It scared the living daylights out of him, and he simply closed down all communication with me, sort of as a survival mechanism. It all turned out OK after he went to counselling at my insistence, but he didn't realise what it was doing to me at the time, totally ignoring me.

You see, it is not always simple, and men don't think like women. We have a better marriage now than we have ever had. It's still not 100% and it probably never will be, but it is OK, and he is now much more affectionate. :-)

Your husband may not be travelling terribly well himself, and may need a little TLC himself. He might be feeling quite isolated. You might need to explain to him about how much of your energy and time is going into the baby, and work out ways with him that you can look after and actively love each other (without sex for the time being, if need be, though I know that you haven't actually mentioned sex). Leave POP out of the conversation for now. Just open the lines of communication a bit. You will probably have to make the first move. Somebody will have to break the ice. The sooner it is done, the sooner you can get back on a more even keel with less tension in the family.It is all so hard. (((squeak)))

This is all just my opinion. No guarantees.

Louise

Yay, Squeaky! Wow, I wasn't expecting it, but I am very proud of you for biting the bullet. Be gentle with yourself. I'll be praying for both of you. Sometimes it is better to not have to wait for these appointments. The waiting can be torture.

I'm sure it will go fine. It's a start anyway. POP causes all sorts of changes in people's lives, and some of them are good. Just take it slowly. You don't even have to report back to us, but you can if you wish to. This is for you and your man.

Cracked heels suck. Been there. We'll sort them out later.

You are one gutsy, strong woman. Yeah, I had wet eyes reading your last post.

Louise

Dear Squeak....Unfortunately.....I think attitude is what brought me to this point. Three weeks ago, when my bladder went to third stage prolapse I tried to figure out what I had done wrong. You see my husband is older and not in good health, so I do all the yard work and heavy lifting (weed eaty, edging, mowing even tree trimming) Also, I had big babies (10 and 11 pounders) and I'm 59 and not getting any younger *smiles* So....my attitude of "I can do it all" I do believe is why I have my bladder making it's outside apprearance. Not to joke (although that seems to lighten the misery a bit) But I am the type A personality that takes it all on and then wonders why my body rebels. Maybe if we women would realize that we need to care for ourselves as we care for our families we'd fair better with our health. After all how can we care for others if our health is so impaired as to leave us homebound in tears. I have cried for three weeks (afraid to go anywhere...afraid to walk or stand for any time), but now that I see that I am not alone I think I can face this with a little more knowledge and hope that I can recover my health. Maybe not like it was before this happened but maybe to the point where I can cope and lead a somewhat normal life. So, Squeak maybe it's time to share with your hubby or a close friend or family member. Let them know what is going own (tell them in you own way) and ask for their help. Love can help to see you through this trying time in your life. When I told my hubby (after two weeks of being scared to death) he responded with amazing understanding and a show of love that made me cry. I don't feel so alone now. Maybe here on the forums...together...we can find our way back to health. ((hugs)) Rose

Squeak, I could not have written a better start to your talking to your husband about your POPs. Well done. Baby steps.

Louise

Ohhh, joy, joy! What a relief it must have been for both of you! Congratulations. LOL! You can see I am quite overcome by your success. Look what you got by taking a little risk!

Squeak, the only rule I can think of is to visualise your vagina going back towards the top of your tail bone, then turning through 90 degrees at the cervix and coming straight towards the front with your uterus lying on top of your bladder and both of them against your lower abdominal wall. This is the way the female body is designed to be, but your uterus may be retroverted, or tipped backwards so your vagina may be more vertical than going back first. The aim of the game is to line it all up so his penis is not bashing into a bit of you that doesn't like it! My uterus was retroverted for many years and was not mobile before my first pregnancy. I used to get a lot of pain with penetrative sex, because I think DH's penis would bash into my uterus, and it hurt. After a pregnancy it would just flop out of the way. No probs ever since.

Come to think of it, I never thought my husband's penis would be a star on the Internet. Some things should remain secret. ;-)

Hey, just try as many tricks and positions as you can, and diary the results. You will work it all out eventually.

Oh yeah! Try and keep your body in posture. If you are on top, stick your butt out. You have a lot of control when you are on top. If you are on the bottom, holding onto the bed head firmly with your arms over your head will reinforce your lumbar curve and keep your pelvic floor tight. On your side you can lean forward so you are L-shaped, ie you have your butt sticking out. On your tummy, a pillow is sometimes good under your hips, ie your butt is stuck out, again. Get the message?

Have fun practising.

Louise

Congrats Squeak! I am so happy to hear it went well. Telling him was a very good thing. Maybe try different techniques such as pillows or position. I'm kind of at a lose in that region as my hubby has high blood pressure and at the age of seventy he is pretty much impotent from all the meds. Bless him he is still a cuddler though. Love will help you find a way pleasing for you both. ((Hugs)) Rose

I haven't found missionary position to be necessarily the worst at all. I find that allowing my kneess to fall apart so they are flat on the bed tips my pelvis forward and reinforces my lumbar curve. This tightens my pelvic floor, and also gives me more clitoral stimulation. The angle of penetration is *perfect*, pushing my vagina back towards the base of my sacrum. I think it kind of scoops my pelvic organs up and forwards. Certainly gives them a workout, that's for sure!

Putting my legs up in the air or over DH's shoulders makes the angle of penetration wrong, and can give me a lot of friction on the perineum, which my menopausal perineum does not like, and getting into that c-shape is not helpful at all.

No doubt about it. Those missionaries knew a thing or two about sex! (Missionary position - what a weird name for a sex position! But have a look at some of the names for positions and manoeuvres in the Kama Sutra, and you will really understand 'weird'!)

Have fun.

Louise.
:-)

It does get easier to tell, every time you tell someone, but you need to remember that you will become very knowledgeable about your anatomy in time, and each new person will be coming from a position of almost total ignorance.

The challenge then becomes simplifying your explanation enough for them to begin to understand the basics.

And there will be some who will be absolutely horrified and run away, or just express "TMI!". Just remember it is not personal, just embarrassing, when this happens.

I can not believe this thread! it has gone from self pity to sex in about 1 second flat :)
Squeek- sounds like things are going great!!! So happy for you.

Yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it? In a good way, though. ;-)

It just shows how vulnerable we are to negative thoughts, and the negative advice we can get when we pay for a consultation.

Does advice we get from a professional whom we have paid (whether through the taxation/insurance system or our wallet) have more power over us than the actual experiences of other women?

Why are we so cut to the quick by the doomsday advice of doctors? Why do they dramatise our bodies so much?

Of course, when a person is in a state of grief one of the basic needs they have is reassurance (that they are not going to be in this state for ever). Empty reassurance is worth nothing at all, but we do have the personal experiences to back up the reassurances we give.

True reassurance does seem to be able to override negative advice that is not entirely true. And quite quickly too. We have seen this with so many women who have come to WW Village in despair, and in only a few weeks are turning around and helping others. It is truly amazing, and is so wonderful to see. It rekindles my faith in humankind .

Louise