New on this forum...Can anybody relate to this?

Welcome Christine, Well I read this over earlier today and nothing jumped out at me- but then I got to thinking....What could be keeping your uterus from fully popping up? What could be holding your cervix low? Is it a ligament issue (tight)? Is it bony structure (out of alignment)? Is it the baby?
Maybe you would benefit from going to the chiropractor.
To see if you can figure it out try this- get on your elbows and knees- now check the position of your cervix-
then bend over with feet wide and check it again.
I'm wondering how mobile your cervix actually is.
Have you had any work done on your cervix between pregnancies? Even a rough pap smear can cause scaring- and scar tissue can do strange things.
Maybe it has to do with adhesions and your previous c-section surgery.
If your cervix is mobile- if it moves around when you are on hands and knees or bending over then I think your doctor must be incorrect in the assumption that you are an anomaly. If it does not move at all then I would not accept the 'oh you are just strange' diagnosis and look for a second opinion. There is something going on- what is it?
In the time between I would say there is very low risk with using the pessary. You will use it for such a short period of time and if it helps you get through this tough time- embrace it!!!

Let me know how you go.....

Hi Christine_80

It is the weird Forum software. The topic comes up at the top, then you have to skip to the bottom to read the first response. The most recent response always appears right under the original topic post.

Maybe something is being held down, either by adhesions from the CS or the rectum surgery, or both. when the body has been 'invaded' surgically its fascial structures are interfered with. This may mean that there is less 'give' as the uterus grows.

What week gestation are you now?

OK, so you have two children. You had a natural birth with the first, then rectal prolapse surgery, then pregnant with your second, which was a CS birth. Now you are 26 weeks with the third pregnancy. The baby has carried really low for these last two pregnancies and you think the baby is already engaged. Your cervix is very low, and this has happened earlier in the pregnancy than the second pregnancy.

Christine, at 26 weeks the baby's head is still quite small though there is a lot of fluid surrounding it, so your uterus will probably feel pretty big. It probably feels like this pregnancy is going to go on for ever, or else you won't make it to the end in one piece.

I really don't know what to suggest to help you feel more comfortable. Are you having contact with a midwife, or just your obstetrician? You might find that there is an antenatal class you can attend to find out more about what might be happening in your body.

Will you have a CS this time as well?

Louise

I'd manually move the head up and forward- many times a day. I would get on my knees and elbows and do leg raises.
I would see a chiropractor
I would rest frequently
I would do second position plies - sets of 10- 4 times a day. I would stand on my head (really :))
I would see an acupuncturist.
I would swim
I would get in a cold pool and in a warm tub
I would eat well
I would dress comfortably
I would let my partner cook and clean and shop
and I would take care of myself.
If none of that helped me- I'd keep doing it anyway :)

Feet in ballet second position, feet shoulder width apart, with hips turned out, belly relaxed. Pull up tall from the crown of your head, and bend your knees down into a half squat without lifting your heels. Keep standing tall. (that's the plie bit). It is all in the book, Saving the Whole Woman, pp128-129.

Hi Christine
We're getting into pretty technical country here. None of us is medically qualified and we have not had many women on the Forums who have had anal surgery, so yours is not one we are familiar with. It sounds like your situation is not very common at all. I really think that the way you are handling it is about all you can do.

I had a really hard second pregnancy. My ovaries got hyperstimulated when I was having infertility treatment and my abdomen blew up to about 6 months pregnant size by nine weeks gestation. My pelvic floor became so stretched and I felt like I was carrying really low all through the pregnancy. I had about 5 litres of fluid drained off my abdomen laparoscopically when it got to a point where I could not eat or drink and could hardly breathe. by the time I was 12 weeks I finally looked normal again and the pregnancy progressed normally, ending in a natural vaginal labour with no damage. By the time I was at term my vulva was enormous and quite distended. However, after the birth I did need electrical stimulation of my pelvic floor a few times to wake up the nerve connections. After that my pelvic floor behaved itself sufficiently to get Kegels happening and I regained the ability to contract my pelvic floor muscles over the following few weeks. That was all 25 years ago.

The point I make is that a pregnancy can do astounding things to the body, and the body is capable of amazing recovery.

You say there are ligament issues. You say that there would be little point in trying a vaginal birth because of the weight of the baby, but the first part is already done. I think you might be trying to foretell the future with these statements. I cannot see how a vaginal birth would be a problem. We all stretch amazingly during labour and birth. That's what women's bodies are designed to do. Why would yours be any different, particularly as you seem to be stretching so easily, even now? It will be the pregnancy that will cause the major stretching. That is inevitable. But the birthing will also stretch your vulva slowly, as it was designed to do. If you intervene in this process by inducing the labour or hurrying it along, that is when the vulva and perineal damage tends to happen. I am not a midwife and I am not an obstetrician. These are simply my observations.

As for the ligament issues, I think that is a generalisation, but the ligaments in all our bodies become stretched during pregnancy, so why is it an issue for you, in particular? Maybe the ob has not explained fully what s/he is talking about? Maybe you have misunderstood something?

POP is something that happens when the fascia that support the uterus, bladder and rectum behind the vaginal walls, is damaged, often by birth, but sometimes by other factors.

The uterus and bladder slide backwards and end up pushing into the front wall of the vagina. Rectocele is when the rectum becomes wider, or kinked, and takes up more room under the sacrum and tailbone, then presses into the back wall of the vagina. The reason your bladder is nowhere to be seen is because the baby's head is pushing it forwards. The cervix and lower uterus are taking up all the room in your vagina, so there is no room for the bladder to be seen.

I am wondering what your posture is like? Maybe your chest is pressing all your organs downwards and pushing the baby down? Maybe you are holding your tummy in, in an effort to hold yourself together? This will make your spine c-shaped, and will push the baby down.

Can you see how opening your body out, relaxing your belly and letting it come out the front, raising your chest, straightening your back and tucking your chin slightly, you can tip your pelvic contents forwards onto your relaxed lower belly, and away from your vulva? Allowing your uterus to come out the front will suck the cervix up and forward. The further forward your pregnant belly can come, the higher your cervix will go. Your belly will stretch if you let it.

I am grasping at straws here, trying to work out what is happening? Can you relate to any of it?

Louise

Christine, 40cm of bowel is a lot of bowel to lose. I think you can safely assume that there is a lot of scar tissue in there that is holding your uterus where it is, and preventing it from rising up. All you can do is try and allow it to come forwards by relaxing your belly and stretching your abdominals as long as you can get them. Getting your arms up high will help with this. I am thinking hanging from a bar might be helpful, but go gently, because sometimes I get light-headed doing this for too long, and I am not pregnant! It will give your upper back a good stretch out as well.

If you have significant scar tissue you will be disabled by the uterus not being able to get up and out. Therefore you will need some physical help to get through the next 10 weeks. This is only realistic. Don't be a masochist and tough it out. Can you get some domicillary help, like you probably would if you had some other illness during pregnancy, and had a family to look after? Just because you live with this, and have done it before doesn't make it OK. You are human, not super-human. Be kind to yourself.

I would also go back to Alemama's pointers. Posture, posture, posture will be at the heart of it, as far as your body can go.

Louise

I don't have a lot of time to properly respond right now, but what you said about hurting your baby by encouraging repositioning caught my eye. Please know that you are not going to hurt your baby, your body is protecting her/him quite well and a little juggling to get the head up out of your pelvis is really quite simple. Most women would accept this practice if it was a care-provider doing it, but why do you think you would cause harm? YOU are the safest person to be doing anything to / with your body and baby. You are, after all, the one who feels in your own body what is being done! (I had a friend who used to hoist her baby's head up and place it on one of her hip bones because she wasn't quite ready for labour to start ;)

Hi Christine,

I have been away from the forums for a couple of days and am trying to catch up with all the posts - you have all been quite busy!

I think you have received wonderful ideas and suggestions from Alemama and Louise. There is no way of knowing what is going on, given your history of injury and surgery.

I just want to add that I’ve read of women carrying a completely prolapsed (to the vaginal opening) uterus throughout pregnancy. It is not the baby’s head you feel, but the firm mouth of your muscular cervix. Your doctor must’ve heard of it too, even if she has not seen it before now.

It would be great if hands and knees, plus WW posture, could make you comfortable enough to go without the pessary while at the same time trusting that everything isn’t going to fall out. Your uterus cannot fall out and what is holding your baby inside your uterus goes way beyond structural and mechanical factors.

My hope is that you become emotionally and physically strong by holding your baby in this way. The vagina and uterus are powerful organs - I wish there was a word, like “macho”, for this kind of holding.

Please don’t worry about your postpartum vagina. We have powerful techniques for moving the uterus forward when it is time.

Hugs from Christine K.

P.S. Love Aza's remark about hoisting baby onto the hipbone - that should make you feel better!

Perhaps your pelvis has an incredibly spacious inlet, allowing for such early and low engagement, and some women also just have short vaginas (not feeling terribly articulate at this hour, sorry). What I mean is some women have what feels like very low or prolapsed cervixes but are totally asymptomatic for POP...it is just the design of their particular bits.
You will not hurt your baby. Trust that you, as the mother, will hear from your baby if he or she is uncomfortable in there! Most women can attest to the fact that if a baby in feeling squished or prefers you lay on your other side or not let the toddler sit on your pregnant belly, they let you know!
My friend would basically get ahold of her baby's head through her abdomen and place it on top of her hip bone. It was truly a marvel to watch and she was not particularly gentle, but she knew that if it was not hurting her, it most likely was not hurting her baby ;)

when DS2 was born, and i was still in terrible pain from my PSD, plus had my POP, i learnt a lot about asking for help. I've always been a do everything person, and do everything for everyone else. But i just told people what was going on, and asked people to help me. And i learnt a lot about what great friends I had! they wanted to help!!! not everyone could, or knew how, but so many did. they would bring by food, call to say "i'm coming round today to do your dishes--now or later?", or just to walk the baby (who always wanted walking) so that i could lie down. they lifted things for me, and still do. i'm cautious about lifting as it really doesn't feel good, so friends do it. they would push the buggy up hill if it was too much, carry my tired toddler if i couldn't anymore, they help my kids down from high up places if they are stuck--friends want to help!
so my view is just let everyone know. you don't have to go into detail if you don't want, just say you are having a hard time with the pregnancy. But, by being open, i discovered how many other women have POP, or other issues that they don't openly discuss--but they are there. you might just be surprised.

One thing that has helped for women determined to avoid a posterior labour is for the woman to lay her head on the floor with her bum up in the air and a partner or midwife to insert fingers into the vagina and manually dislodge the baby's head. This is also the emergency procedure done in the rare cases of cord prolapse during labour, so it really does work. It might be just a band-aid solution for you but thought I would share it.
And keep coming here. You are in good company!

We women are the ones who know what it is like in both positions.

If we genuinely offer to help another woman, the offer may be taken up.
If the woman we offer to help says no thanks, that is not our problem.
If she says yes please, then we have made the world a better place by helping another human being, and communities are created.

If we genuinely ask for help, we may find that somebody offers to help.
If no offer is forthcoming, we can usually manage, and can ask again another day, or wait until a willing helper turns up.

If we don't express the need for help, nobody will offer help.

If we don't offer help when we can, then we have no right to ask for expect help when we need it.

Asking for help is like taking money out of the bank. Offering to help is like putting money in the bank.

If we keep putting money in the bank, eventually we can draw on it, because that's what communities are for, and that's why we put money in the bank in the first place!

Eventually there comes a time when our arms are full of nothing much at all, and helping is easy.

It takes a village to raise a child.