I Am Angry...

I am totally pissed for you Grandma Joy. That lady should not be practicing medicine at all. I am am angry from just reading about this. I can only imagine how angry you really must feel about what happened to you. If I was in that room I think I would have slapped her in the head or worse. That is completely unacceptable behaviour for a medical professional. As a woman she should be ashamed of her bed side manner. For God sakes she is a woman and should know what it feels like to have someone examine a very personal and sensitive area of our bodies. Obviously this woman needs to get a hold of her ego because she did you no favours whatsoever. You came to see her for help. Not only did she not help you she hurt you and was blatantly sarcastic about it. If you have a chance to report her I would do that. No woman should have to be treated that way by someone they have to put their trust into, male or female. How ignorant of her to dismiss your desire to take herbs to heal your body. Anything in excess can be harmful to our health. Even prescribed meds! Your a bright and intelligent woman who has taken the initiative to take care of herself by going out there and getting educated on alternative means for healthcare. Who on earth hasn't done that or thought about it. I wonder what she would have said to Suzanne Sommers for using herbs and alternative medicine to treat her cancer. It appears to me that she has taken her role as a medical professional and her committment to help society with their healthcare as a form of power. I know that some people believe their doctors are like God and listen to everything they say but in this day and age we are far more educated then ever before and we have every right to assert ourselves in caring for our health and well being. She obviously does not like her authority to be challenged. I pitty her and all of her patients. I can go on and on about this and I wish I can take away the pain that you are in (emotionally and physically). I just want you to hear that what happened to you was not right and if you feel like there is something you can do to help you feel better about your circumstances then do so. People should not be allowed to get away with treating mankind like that. I am so sorry that you had to go through that and send you loving energy and will pray for you to heal on all levels. Sorry for spittin nails but I can't stand injustice. All my prayers. And reach for things that make you feel better and better everyday. You are a strong woman GJ. Hugs.

Hi Grandma Joy

I feel your anger, what a dreadful experience. I was cringing at your pain while reading about it. Could you report this treatment to the medical board? I am not sure what the process is, but it is awful if you are one of the many she treats with such distain.

I must admit that I had an experience I was 'going to' report, but just never got around to it as felt uncomfortable. Nothing like what happened to you, but at a pregnancy check up the ob/gyn did a so called breast examination, which at the time appeared to me to be rather like a last minute thought. He basically squeezed my breasts while I still had my bra on (with underwire) - but just the lower part of them - it really felt like it was just a opportunistic grope!! I came away feeling very confused about it, and if I had misread the situation, and then a friend asked her boss (who happened to be on the board that evaluates such things) and he said - that is the sort of thing that should be reported. Despite this, time dragged on, and I didn't report it, and have since wondered how many other women he does this sort of thing to.

I am not sure what the system is like in the US (I assume you are in the US), if it is worth it or not. Just thinking that these things keep happening if no-one tells.

I understand the pain you must feel about this, and maybe this is not for you, after all I chickened out myself.

Enjoy your herbs, sounds like fun!
Take care

What was that doctor thinking???? (Expletives self-censored.) It's particularly embarassing to have a female gynecologist be so incredibly insensitive and egotistic. The last time I had a rough exam was with a male gynecologist who couldn't stop looking me up and down, even when I was fully clothed. Let's just say my period started early, with lots of spotting and bleeding from his rough treatment of sensitive parts. I never went back, I reported him to the physician who referred me to the lout, and the guy since has died. Not a happy memory.

Actually, her recommending the gardasil vaccine is almost laughable. Not quite, since it's been linked with some severe reactions, even deaths, among young girls. Did she think it would prevent you from getting cervical cancer? And with your DH in the room....maybe somebody needs to retire from the practice of medicine. Soon.

I have seen a psychologist for help dealing with body image and altered lifestyle due to prolapse. Last time I saw her, she challenged me with regard to surgery. I told her I didn't like the failure rate. I'm really not an idiot, and I've spent the last few years researching my options and trying everything to manage my prolapse. She and another counselor I saw once both seem to feel that I would get over it if I just got myself fixed. I wish I knew why some women are happy with surgery for decades to come, and some are unspeakably miserable. At any rate, I still don't like the odds.

I am sorry that you had to experience such a thing. You try so hard to maintain a positive attitude. God bless you, Grandma Joy. May your body heal up quickly. Forgive the offense, for the sake of your well-being. But you might consider reporting her, too.

Best wishes,
Saddleup

Oh Grandma Joy - ((((((((((HUGS)))))))))) I’m sitting here trying to figure out what her particular psychosis is. Hm-m-m-m, power hunger overlaying extreme insecurity = agitation, anger and sadistic lashing out. She is definitely not in the business of healing women and what a cognitive dissonance that must be for her.

Well, we can gnash our teeth over this one doctor, but really, she is just a cog in a very immense, shaky and dangerous wheel.

I’m so glad you have your herbs and are going to make salve and tincture. Your humorous and dear heart always warms my world!

Lots of love,

Christine

{{{{{{{{{{{{{grandma joy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am speechless

and horrified with you way you were mistreated. violated, really. this must be reportable.

love and healing to you

gmom

Oh GrandmaJoy, what a horrible, horrible experience for you. The woman is obviously a sadist, and should not be treating women at all with her bad attitude.

It is a pity you can't find a way to publicly Name and Shame her.
We know that she practises in Philadelphia. At least our Members can contact you by email to ask her name if they are seeking a gyn in the same city, and thereby avoid her and her Clinic.

No woman should be submitted to such cruel, ignorant and patronising behaviour, especially as they are paying for it through their insurance or their hip pocket.

I think it is worth putting some sort of written, formal complaint in. It may come to nothing, but at least it will be on the record for the next time somebody complains about her. If you do nothing it is only contributing to her repeating her behaviour on other women. Had somebody complained before, you might not have been subjected to her barbaric behaviour.

As we used to say in the '70's, "Power to the people!"

Louise

I too am speechless...how can people behave this way! I agree, it must be reportable. You never know, maybe other women have to, or will, and it starts to create a picture that stops this.
but huge hugs to you and enjoy making your salve. I'm sure you will heal the irritation, and get your body back on track.

Kiki

Wow grandma Joy, I am feeling livid after reading about your experience. I would really encourage you to directly address these issues for your own healing as well as for the protection of other women. I would be willing to bet that there are already complaints about her behaviour. You are probably not the first women to be treated like that, and you will undoubtedly not be the last.
Would you consider addressing her personally, perhaps through a letter (or just print out what you have already written above;) ) and let her know that you will also be filing a complaint with her regulatory body in the very near future. To address her personally takes some real courage and will show her that you are a person of integrity who does not need to only go through a 3rd party. And who knows what sort of response you will get. Just food for thought.

Complaining directly and formally to the person who has wronged you is a very empowering experience, if you can muster the bravery, and does give them the opportunity to either respond with an apology, which is something positive, or by ignoring you or by abusing you further in their reply.

Either of the latter two responses both add more evidence to your complaint that you take to a higher authority, who will be able to attend it it straight away, without having to check that you have complained to the source before going to the third party.

This establishes your integrity with the third party. Go for it.

Louise

Just wondered how others feel about writing letters with copies when medical professionals make you angry... it is a slippy slope because we need them and they likely do talk and socialize it is a small world.. I also have things i wish to say to a doctor but hesitate because it is not his fault i have my prolapse- just his fault to have made it worse. I strongly feel the desire to put my feelings to the pen and eventually deliver it to him and those more authoritative in his profession. I have always maintained a problem not complained about cannot be fixed.

well Sammy, you write the letter and they treat you like a crazy- that's the worst case scenario right? But maybe when they get enough crazies they will have to reconsider- and maybe someday that will help another woman avoid a procedure or callous treatment.

I say if the worst thing they can do is blow you off- go for it!!!!

Look at the cnvc (.org) website for good advice on how to communicate effectively.

After hearing this I'm not envious of your medical system at all. Thank goodness for the British NHS, at least we don't get to pay for such treatment here.

Sammy, I always try to remain calm and collected when writing complaint letters, because you never know whose eyes it will pass, and the person being complained about is bound to see it, so always be nice. Stick to the facts and don't give them any opportunity to treat you like an emotional ditz. Talk in "I" terms rather than "s/he" terms and keep the emphasis that their behaviour had on your own physical or mental or emotional wellbeing, rather than criticising the person.

I have had quite a bit of success complaining in this way. I try and not be just a trouble maker, but show them the bad effects of the person's behaviour and how it reflects poorly on their own credibility. You can only try. You might not get anywhere, but to remain silent is not helpful for the big picture of standing up against unethical and cruel behaviour in this crazy world.

And it is damned satisfying to watch them wriggling under scrutiny!

Yes, we do need them sometimes, but they need us as well. A doctor without any patients is simply a highly trained sickness theoretican.

We need rubbish collectors more than we need doctors! Even if I die from an illness, I was going to die eventually anyway, but the rubbish will still need collecting the day after I am gone!

Louise

Hi, thank all who post on these forums. This is a subject that needs to be openly discussed and I believe doctors know nothing about what we go through. I was diagnosed about 5 years ago with a mild prolapse - I believe mine is only a cystocele-bladder prolapse. I bought the sea sponges which worked pretty good but I found they have a horrible smell after a few days even with thorough washing.

One day I saw a "synthetic" sea sponge at my local supermarket. It looked like a sea sponge was more of a uniform size and color. I thought, why not give it a try.
I cut it in half, washed well with baby wash and hot water, inserted it and it was perfect. It stayed bouncier so to speak than a sea sponge and gave me tremendous support and comfort. I don't go a day anymore without this. I have been using these for approx. a year. I have seen several different ones now, at local pharmacies. They are inexpensive, maybe in the $5.00 range and don't have to be ordered.

I find that my cystocele is in better position and at night when remove the sponge, hardly comes down anymore.
I am post menopausal for 10 years. I heartily recommend this. Make sure it is moist when inserted.

I hope this helps others.

Ok, so what name brand do I look for and in which section? I tried sponges and they were scratchy.....
So glad you found something that works :)

Welcome Miamigoddess. Just wondering what is on the packet? Are there any disclaimers about internal use? I guess they are a polyurethane or something like that. The would need to be food grade, as opposed to handywoman grade.

Sometimes industry can do a better job than nature. I hope they are safe. They sound like another very useful tool.

Louise

Thank you all for the warm reception. I looked at the wrappings and never saw the "make up" of the sponge itself. I presume from what I see on the net that it is polyurethane. I think the household grade cleaning sponges are cellulose mainly. From my research I don't think there is anything toxic in the synethetic spa/bath sponges. The danger I read were to the environment if they were burned etc. some of the fumes I believe but I have had no problems at all using these.

I live in Miami and our local Publix had a few of these hanging in the aisleways and they caught my eye because I thought they were sea sponges. They look like them except the color is yellow. Like I said, they are "fluffier" than a natural sea sponge and they do not develop an odor, which I believe is a major plus. I read they can be microwaved if you want to make sure any bacteria is used, but I don't do that. If there was a break down of the fibers, I think a microwave could cause that. So , I use baby wash and it works wonderfully for me. I have used that to wash my face for over 30 years and People always remark on how amazingly smooth my skin is and I am just past 60 njow.
Baby wash is mild and hypoallergenic and I believe is the perfect cleaner although I am sure you can use hydrogen peroxide or alcohol if you prefer.

I wash it and insert while damp. I never feel it once it i in and can go hours without feeling the urge to urinate as well. Without it, it would almost be a constant feeling of discomfort. Now I don't have the problem with stress incontinence, in fact, I have more of the opposite problem where it is hard to initiate urination. However after 5 hours or so of wearing the sponge, I have a hard time removing it quickly enough before I start. That is a huge relief.

I look forward to this forum and advice from others. We all have to stick together in this. I have noticed in the last few months this issue is being discussed more openly on television not only on the show "The Doctors" but even Sharon Osbourne on "The Talk" mentioned no one telling us about our "uteruses" falling out.

PS Just make sure you don't get the "exfoliative" sponges that would be very uncomfortable, scratcy and abrasive and cause bleeding and irritation. Make sure it is just a faux sea sponge.

Miamigoddess, this sounds really good. I think a few other members might try these.

I wasn't trying to put you off the 'not naturalness' of them, just to ensure that you had considered it.

We try to ensure that women make their own decisions about how to deal with POP, which they have often not considered possible previously. We like women to get as full information as they can before they decide on what course to take, and we encourage women to contribute their successes, and failures, and questions and ideas. There are no stupid questions and there are no stupid ideas, and there is no 'too much information' either.

You might even find that, in time, you can manage without the sponge, as long as you attend to your diet, your posture, your clothing and the way you use your body every day. But it will be great for you to have your trusty sponges in the drawer for if you need them at any time. We all need an ace up our sleeve.

Louise

Hi Sammy,
I don't know anything about your experience other than what you said - that your doctor didn't cause your prolapse but he did make it worse. This is not ok, whether intentional or unintentional. If it was through thoughtless or unnecessary treatment, this must be addressed as it is totally unacceptable. If it was through an honest mistake or miscalculation, then your doctor needs to know so that improvement can be made.
Either way, as women we must demand a higher quality of treatment or nothing is ever going to change. Google the Butcher of Bega...what if no one wrote letters or communicated the varying levels of abuse (an extreme example, I know, but the point is true nonetheless).
If nothing changes, nothing ever changes and we will continue to receive suboptimal care! Go forth and communicate!

Louise, thanks for reply. Not offended in any way. Just trying to give as much info about the faux sponges as I could. I hope you are right that the more I learn and use techniques some day I may not need it. That would be truly wonderful.

I am so happy to find this forum. :)

I'm in florida too. I went to publix today. I didn't see any of these hanging in the isles- (could be I was too distracted to look properly though).
Tell me again how to look for them.....Which section do you think they are in? Like with the cleaning supplies or more like by the tampons and condoms? Or maybe with deodorants?
Do you know what the intended purpose is for them?

I am thinking I would like to give these a try in the early postpartum time (3-6 months). In the past I have used tampons for support but there are many factors I don't really like about them (not reusable for example). Would love to find these and try them out....

Hi, I go to the Publix at sw 146th street and US1. They are in the aisle where paper towels, plastic bags, etc are on. They are on little hooks that line the aisle. You can ask about them. Also, I did see something very similar at CVS and Walgreens. They are called spa bath collection. Sorry I did not see your question sooner. Maybe you can find them on line.

I don't know what I would do without these now. Going skiing next month and would not leave home without them.

What is this? How do you get it? Does it really stop the irritation?

Hi Everybody. I am 65 and have been suffering from full POP for about three or four years now. I purchased Christine's First Aid for Prolapse DVD long ago and have been doing the exercises pretty faithfully and am still learning how to maintain posture. Two weeks ago, I was told by a couple of gynos that I am at Stage 3 now, and they vehemently recommended hysterectomy. My DH and my best friend who is a doctor have asked me to remain open-minded about surgery. I am now pushed to shove, meaning that I am no longer able to just la-de-da through the day every day, tolerating the slight bulge between my legs. It is now so big and irritating that I REALLY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND QUICK because my life is one of constant traveling and always having to be "on stage." I have pepped up my exercises, am really focusing more on posture than ever before, and just read today about raw honey. Honey is awesome. Thanks to all who wrote about it. Now, I am just reaching out to all of you because I need to make a life-transforming decision: should I have surgery, or should I go on trying, trying, trying to manage my now-very-uncomfortable prolapse through exercise and posture???? Praying like anything to make the right decision!

Hi and welcome. If you have studied Christine's work, then you already know that hyst brings with it a host of other potential problems, big ones - not the least of which is prolapse of other organs into the space left behind. So if your doc is presenting hyst as a potential solution to this problem, well, that's just bad information. And there is plenty of that floating around!

Christine's exercises are only as good as the posture and breathing that you are using when you do them. They strengthen the body to hold posture but it is the posture itself that is how we manage prolapse. And it sounds like you are still in the early stages of the posture correction. We have members here with profound uterine prolapse who are managing pretty well. You need to work on posture and you need to learn firebreathing and other tools.

Can you give us more detail on where you are in the Whole Woman work? That would help us make suggestions. - Surviving

Hi Surviving60. Thanks for your reply. You asked where I am in the Whole Woman work. I have been doing fifteen minutes of exercises sometimes daily, sometimes weekly, from the First Aid DVD for about three years now. I have not read Christine's book nor purchased any other materials. I just spent about six hours reading forum comments yesterday and watched half of the Nora Coffey video last night. I have read comments on other forums about how some people are glad they had a hyst, and some regret it. I have talked with a friend of mine who had a hyst and no side effects except some fecal leaking, which went away soon after. It has been years since she had her operation, and has no regrets. So I am of two minds about this. On the one hand, I am happiest when I do things naturally and cooperate with nature, yet because of my lifestyle (constant traveling, professional musician) I am wondering if I should just go ahead and do the unnatural thing of having surgery. After all, I find it hard to incorporate exercise into my daily "routine" as I have no daily routine due to the changing daily schedule of a traveling musician. And yes, you are right that I am still in the early stages of posture correction. I am having to constantly repeat to myself, "Belly loose. Chest up. Chin back. Crown up. Shoulders loose." I agree with Christine that keeping the belly loose is the hardest part. One other question I have is this: when I am home, I do a lot of obtuse-angle bending over the sink, over the stove, etc. How does one maintain WW posture while doing chores that require such bending? ~Sattvicity

There is no such thing as "too busy" for the Whole Woman work. You have to train yourself to live in the posture. This takes commitment and it takes mindfulness, but it does not take time out of your day.

It is a common misconception among new members and others who are sort of dabbling in the work, that Whole Woman is primarily an exercise program. It is much more than that, as Christine reminds us in practically every newsletter, and we talk about on the forum all the time. But it bears repeating over and over again.

With a significant uterine prolapse, you will need more than posture and exercise; you will need some tools such as firebreathing to help you forcefully pull the organs forward. If you have the DVD, please go to the dictionary of movements and start learning this now.

Please get a little more into this before you decide to go under the knife. Read "The H Word" by Nora Coffey. - Surviving

I think that Sattvicity has just proven to all of us that you can't just do the exercises without really understanding and working on posture also. I have also been doing this for over 3 years with a profoundly prolapsed uterus, but the difference is that I did everything that was available to me in this work. And, that includes working on the posture and being mindful of it in all my activities, whole woman walking, jiggling and firebreathing, changing my diet for better bowel function.
Thses things my seem time consuming, but when incorporated into your daily life, they just become part of the routine. It took me time, almost a year, to get this all working and moving in the right direction, but I have learned to successfully manage my severe prolapse and I am keeping my uterus.

Sattvicity, we don't encourage women to get hysterectomies on this site, so you aren't going to find positive comments about it on this forum, and if you have read any of Christine's very indepth research on the subject, you would know why.

Hi There, What an unsafe, unloving, scary ordeal for you to have this very unprofessional uncaring experience. I'm so sorry to hear of your ordeal Grandma Joy. I believe as women, we need to start educating the professionals......HOW? May be a very slow process but over time perhaps they will hear our inquiries. My thoughts are this........if we assume they have all the knowledge and all their years of "successful' experience then surely we are giving away our power, and allowing ourselves to be at their mercy? I now believe in interviewing the physician first before any hands-on. Go with lots and lots of questions, leave no stone unturned., even down to does he/she warm the applicator for a pap smear. If you don't get a good gut feeling that this person feels okay, stop there! If they are not willing to spend time with you, educating you.....stop there.! If the answers they give are not in alignment with your beliefs .......stop there, VOTE WITH YOUR FEET!!!!!