Potty Training

I cant imagine that early toilet training, when the child is ready as yours seems to be, can be detrimental.

I wouldnt worry about POP right now, little kids still know how to hold their bodies as they havent been poisoned by the media and society yet.

as far as her stream and the pooling, is she sitting on a potty or a regular toilet? might just be her position.
and regarding the pooping, do you think she's holding it in more than she did when she was still in diapers? 'cuz I'm thinking, in a diaper you just go as soon as you get the urge. in underwear, she's got to hold it and then more actively will it to happen in the right place at the right time.
she's still new at this, I think it will all come together. as long as she isnt' constipated I'd leave it alone.

and HUGE congrats on the early potty training!

I can't imagine why anyone would ever say that early potty training was not 'good'- it just seems weird once you think about it. We 'teach' our babies to soil themselves by putting a diaper on them and not responding when they let us know they need to go. Then we 'teach' them not to do that by various and sundry different ways. So ya, I guess it wouldn't be good to potty train early if your methods are not friendly- or if you want to wait for the child choose to do it. But from a biological standpoint potty training *should* be unnecessary. So in no way could it harm a very young human if done naturally. It's sort of nature's intention from the beginning.
The one take away message we need to send our little girls about going to the bathroom is to never force it! If they learn from us early on that going to the bathroom should not involve a red face or sweating and that if the poo is not coming out- to wait and relax and try again later then they will never develop a habit of straining.
Watch closer. How would you describe the straining? Does she hold her breath? Does she strain for more than a few seconds? We kept our first child in diapers and I still *knew* when she was going poo- even from a few days old. She would bear down to pee and poo. It's pretty natural and my guess is that your child is working with her body and with an innate knowledge of how to do that healthfully.
Now, the squat I do often wonder about. Many humans in our world squat and I'm guessing it's logically the position we've evolved into using.
But then some of my babies have stood to poo and some have been squatters so who knows!
If you don't want her pee to shoot out or pool up, have her lean forward when she pees.
One thing I've been so thankful for is that my kids have been adventurous when peeing. It has saved us so many times to just pull over and let them stand up and pee by the side of the road- or to squat in the woods when camping.
and I love all the tricks they try! Our baby (geez almost 2 now!) will walk up to the potty, hold his penis and pee all over the floor. He wants so much to be like his big brothers. When one of my boys pees on a tree, you better believe they are all peeing on it. Dh says they are like a bunch of sheep.
I wonder how many prolapses would have been avoided if the mama had thought to caution her child about straining?
Oh my gosh and don't get me started on childbirth injury. If the mother was just left to work with her body and instinct, there would be no 'episiotomy' rate!

That must have shaken you to the core. ((((hugs))))

I am betting the pediatric community will decide it is a developmental slip and will choose not to treat it. At two the child is still building the architecture that will channel intraabdominal pressure through her torso.

What you can do is support her in this natural development. Let her squat to poop so that she is not pushing against a potty seat. Remember that the lower abdominal wall takes the brunt of intraabdominal pressure, so make sure her clothing is loose and supportive of her natural shape. Lots of natural exercise - running, jumping, squatting - is what develops the pelvic organ support system. A highly nutritious diet cannot be overstated, as that is what keeps connective tissue strong and healthy.

Please don't confuse your issues with hers, as there is likely very little connection.

Wishing you and your baby all well,

Christine

Hi Rosebud. My DS1 had quite a case of haemmoroids from the same thing . only once, when he was about 24 months. I noticed them when wiping him after using the potty. He has always spent a lot of time in the toilet, but has never mentioned any haemmaroid trouble again. I was wiping his bum for some time so I would have noticed! It didn't seem to bother him at the time either. He is now 28, and was the type of kid who would have mentioned it if it was a problem.

I have wondered recently if that upright developmental stage was responsible for it, and that kids really should squat every time they need to use the toilet, right through childhood. Imagine what that would do to the building industry, making squat toilets mandatory for kids in lower schools!

I would keep an eye on it, but not panic. When you think about it, standing up again would wind her system up again and pull everything back in again. I would treat it as a canary in the mine, diet wise.

Is she weaned? Breastmilk has a laxative effect. Perhaps she needs to have a drink of water in easy reach at all times? Our toddlers grazed. There was always a plate of fruit sitting around in a state of being half-eaten. Kids that age seem to live on the smell of an oily rag, and hardly eat anything at all. They are so busy doing stuff and learning stuff. If you don't eat much, it has to be good stuff. If you don't eat much, you don't need to drink much either, as long as it isn't dehydrated food that you are eating, eg biscuits, dried fruit, toast, etc.

Louise

I would ask a dietician about doing an elimination diet, rather than a doctor. A week without dairy is not going to do her a lot of harm, certainly I would think less harm than having her small intestine malfunctioning on a continual basis and possibly being damaged.

I would think it is a hunch worth following up on.

Oh Rosebud, how are things? are you feeling hopeful about this situation now? Do you think it can get better- perhaps even all the way better? I think it must be possible. I would not think of surgery for years and years. She is going to grow so much and the risk for me would outweigh the benefit.
Does it hurt her?
have you thought of somehow 'supporting' her rectum when she goes potty? Not sure how though.....
I'd say forget the allergy testing and just do an elimination diet- you will know from her poop if you are on the right track or not an can easily switch things around.
I'd start with dairy- you really don't have to worry about calcium at all for a while and if that does help her (to eliminate it) then you can look into other foods that are high in calcium- sardines are great for calcium, green, and bone broths are good places to start and much more nutritious than milk. Pediatricians know next to nothing about nutrition. Doing your own independent research will give you the education you need to make good decisions about calcium.
Good luck mama.
I know when I look at my 8 year old compared to my 2 year old physically things just seem sturdier, less moveable, more fixed in place.....

There was a great deal of chatter on the interwebs about 2 year olds and rectal prolapse- seems almost common :(

'Hi all - well we went to the hospital yesterday and the surgeon was fantastic. He said it is becoming more common in young boys and as it isn't happening very often there is no need for surgery - woo hoo!!! If it does get to a point of happening very often then go straight back and we'll get seen quicker due to already having seen him, and that it should "heal itself" as he gets older and the muscles get stronger. Could be a result of the lactose intolerance and having had such bad diarreah (?) when he was a baby.'

I'm sorry your dd (and you!) is going through this. my gut tells me that she will not need surgery. agree with alemama, the older the little ones get the more sturdy and 'held together' they seem.
4 soft bm's seem alot to me, but then again, my dd struggled with chronic constipation.
if your gut tells you she is sensitive to dairy or milk in particular, eliminate it! peds know very little about nutrition and think milk is the end all be all source of calcium. there's plenty else she could be eating for calcium, white beans, nuts, tofu, green leafies, etc. do a google search and you'll come up with a list.
when I suspected my dd was allergic to dairy the ped laughed at me. I eliminated it anyway and whaddya know? her 'rosy' cheeked faded to normal complexion and she stopped screaming like a banshee all day long. ped did a blood test to prove me wrong and not only was she allergic to dairy, but it showed egg whites too. ped was not happy about telling me he was wrong. but I digress. point is, trust your gut. this is not brain surgery. worst thing, it makes no difference and you eliminate something else.
you'll get to the bottom of this and she will be ok.
(((((((hugs))))))))

I just had to comment on this too, because when my dd was 19 months old, she had bad, soft, pasty, stuck to her bowel movements. She also had dry skin on her face, her eyes were watery and looked like she had pinkish bags under them. She was congested a little bit too (think, she's 8 now). The doctor said just keep giving her milk because she wasn't gaining much weight. She never really liked the milk, so I tried yogurt instead. That made all of the symptoms worse, so I made an appointment with a pediatric allergist. She did all kinds of tests, dust, pollen, etc. I kept asking about the milk and she just kept dismissing it. Finally, when all of the tests came back fine, she told me no dairy (casein, whey) for 1 year. The dr said she was "sensitive to milk protein". She eventually started to get better. I was very strict with her diet, I read every single ingredient on everything she ate.

I also started giving her children's powdered probiotics too. I'm not sure if this helps or not, but just wanted to let you know.

I really enjoy reading Michael Pollan's stuff.
His recommendation to: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." is what we live by in our home. By 'food', he means eating whole fresh foods rather than processed food products.
Soy beans are perfectly fine to eat-it's just not a great idea to eat a good deal of processed texturized vegetable product.
I think humans are not made to be eating the same things year in and year out- I think we were made to eat seasonally. So in our home we try our best to eat 'in season' foods as much as possible (as main dishes). Of course I am guilty of buying out of season yummy things like strawberries sometimes.
I also really like to eat locally, especially our meat. And our eggs come from chickens in our back yard or from a friend. We can also get goat cheese locally.
here's an article by MP
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html

I do think it's a very important time in the history of our species to be considering what we eat, where it comes from, how it's prepared/harvested. We've all become too complacent and now food as we know it is very strange. It's full of chemicals and it's often manufactured in a lab by a scientist. Add to that the idea of GMOs and cloned meat and the entire situation is from some science fiction book. Except it isn't.

I saw a commercial for Corn Syrup last week- the claim was- 'it's just sugar, your body doesn't know the difference' or some nonsense. MP says: "if you’re concerned about your health, you should probably avoid food products that make health claims. Why? Because a health claim on a food product is a good indication that it’s not really food, and food is what you want to eat."

I was so getting that feeling too about two weeks into being on this site. That "wait, is everything healthy I've been doing unhealthy," feeling!!

But I promised myself to remember I am JUST TRYING to eat healthy and that no matter who says what - I can see for the most part what does and doesn't work FOR ME.

When I eat less white bread I notice the abence of swelling. In short I look better. It's subtle. And I didn't even know there was anything "wrong" with my appearance, but when I eat less white bread, poof, I wake up looking healthier so I do that. I was eating wheat bread and could not even believe some of the people here were not exactly wheat advocates. But I tried cutting down and I feel better.

I noticed after having plain tuna with tumeric and cinamon and celery sprinkled on top and apples diced into it, I felt much better. And the pop seemed a little more controllable. I threw away aluminum pots and noticed my father's memory was better.

I ate with a heavy emphasis of PLAIN stuff, as it grows - lettuce, fresh veggies, fruit. In season when can, local when can. Lots of celery seed, tumeric, cinnamon.

Someone told me to cut down on drinking (water, etc). Who knew too much could not be good but I feel WAY better now that I am limiting how much I drink!!

I guess my point is this - don't get discouraged if you feel the rug pulled out from you on some things you thought were or weren't healthy. I felt discouraged but got my bearings by telling myself that anything obviously helping me I will keep up and the rest I just have to experiment with. I keep everything else the same and try whatever the suggestion is so that I know if anything changed it's the new suggestion. (Like Im getting swollen from shark cartilidge. Only thing I've changed and now swelling. But I'm trying to see if perhaps an empty or full stomach or water or other drink makes a difference).

I guess I'm saying hang in there. : ) And that even though I felt that same overwhelming confusion of opposite info I did just try to keep focused in what felt like a sea of change...AND have had HUGE IMPROVEMENT.

Who knows if I got better because of diet, support, posture, exercise, sleeping this way or that, tumeric, shark cartilidge, cascada sargada, losing weight by eliminating sugar butter sweets and cutting way back on breads, lying with my butt up (since I noticed whenever at the doctor's office everything was in place!!), resting A LOT when people in my life were annoyed that I was lying around instead of up and doing things, later swimming, praying a lot, purposely picturing myself well, eliminating soda (huge for me), going more heavily with fruits and veggies or drinking less - but I have a feeling it is all of the above.

And boy o boy o boy o boy do I feel better. Today it's been as if nothing is wrong at all. Yesterday too. HUGE, HUGE difference from six weeks ago. And anyone here can tell you my head was spinning from all the info that conflicted with what I thought before. And that I was immensely discouraged and hopeless. So please hang in there!

I am commenting on this because I also had wondered about connections only my kids are way past potty training. My diagnosis is 3 compartment prolapse Ba at +1, C at 0 and Bp at +2 as well as urodynamic stress incontinence and severe hiatal ballooning. I did not go to a Dr until 5 months ago when the Cervix prolapsed and it is getting worse constantly currently it is resting on my bowel and uterine prolapse which are on the outside of my body. I developed the rectocele at 20 when pregnant with my first child now 18, normal vaginal delivery with episiotomy. He also developed a severe Bowel prolapse at 7 years of age they said related to Anxiety and depression he pushes it back in and manages constipation using diet.

My second son now 16 was a cesarian section he was footling breach until 35 weeks when he started doing somersaults he continued this right through the surgery it was fun I passed out several times. Looked a bit like Sigourney weaver in Alien. He had night time enuresis until 16 and encopresis developing management at 13 years of age.

My third child now 13 was a natural vaginal delivery followed by a massive haemorrhage the blood clot was as big as a plate my mother said it looked like an ox tongue. I had a seizure due to the low blood pressure and they had to tillt the bed to 45 degrees to get the blood to my head or so I am told I don't actually remember.

My fourth and final child a little girl was born in 2002 she is 11. Funnily enough her delivery another vaginal delivery had no complications. But within 12 months the prolapse of the bladder occurred and I have been using incontinence aids since 2004.

I am 39 years of age they are recommending a hysterectomy and mesh, bladder retraining, diet and exercise. I am reading all the posts and putting into place as much as I can. Heading out this afternoon to buy new shoes and dresses as I need to rethink my professional wardrobe of high heels fitted style tops and slacks. But suddenly occurred to me is it my genes that caused my two boys there medical issues and is this the future for my daughter should I be talking to her about whole woman posture now at 11. It would be devastating for her as we both dance or I did until this year and the whole posture is in complete conflict bottom pulled in, stomach pulled in, shoulders pulled back, chest out and chin up head tilted back.

Sorry this is a very long post.....

hereditary genes are a distinct possibility, but most health problems bring up the questions of genes and/or nurture. I have uterine prolapse, my mother did and so did her mother and I strongly suspect so did hers. They also would all have laid on a bed to birth. They also had hemorrhoids whilst I do not. So I would say allow for the possibility of genes, and so avoid the extra conditions which can contribute. If you have inherited mum's genes then there is a chance. If your life experience very similarly follows hers then there's a good chance you will incur a similar injury/illness. So is it possible to get a dance teacher who will tolerate WWposture? Surely, there must be. You don't know your daughter has the same genes, but just in case she does, why not avoid the known contributing factors.

the postures is definitive in the dance form and the competition is primarily based on it. Therefore it is all or nothing unfortunately. As to family. My mother had a sling on her bladder in her 30's and last year surgery for a rectocele. There was discussion of a hysterectomy at 30 but her uterus was too large due to 3 10pd babies. Both my grandmothers had successful hysterectomies with no post surgery issues. The pressure is on that I also should bite the bullet and have the surgery. My brother is an RN and specialises in wounds and also another field the name of which fails me at the moment it is related to bowel cancer and the bags that patients use. I have considered asking him about the mesh and his thoughts but quite frankly I struggle with discussing my medical issues with anyone include my daughter. LOL my Mother has no such issues I have taken to avoid .public meetings with her after appointments with Dr's because she see's no issue in the discussion. My husband states that I am silly as once I have the surgery everyone will know what I had done and why.

The ladies on this forum and there honesty and openness has inspired me. Truly. Thank you for that.

MummaBear, I am bothered by your reference to "successful" hysterectomies, but I do realize that you must be talking about hysterectomy without any subsequent prolapsing of other organs?

There are many many many many reasons to save your uterus. Christine's commitment to do so was the impetus for her entire body of work and research. Read her hysterectomy page; watch her interview with Nora Coffey on the Resources page; read Nora Coffey's book.

As for mesh and other repairs, if you are seriously considering any of this, I strongly urge you to study the works of Christine Kent. For starters, go to the Resources tab, look for Videos and watch the first video on the page, for an overview. Lower down on that page you will find the Nora Coffey interview.

You have a lot of research to do! - Surviving

HI MummaBear

You are indeed in a high pressure environment. It sounds from the medical language that you use that you have a good grasp of what happened in your births and to your Mum, but I wonder if you *understand* what happened.

It seems to me that a 'successful' surgical procedure is one where the patient leaves the hospital with all sutures intact and the symptoms relieved. If there are subsequent changes it doesn't make the procedure any less successful. Most surgical procedures then are successful. It is also important to realise that many women who have hysterectomies feel pretty dreadful before the surgery, so of course they feel much better afterwards. Their current position is always measured by them against the day before the op, even if they have knockon effects from the surgery, such as further prolapse or bowel, bladder or sex problems develop.

You do also seem to have a lot of medical input, maybe via your son, and probably from the many doctors you have seen over the years for both your sons and yourself. You are probably, and understandably, grateful for the assistance they rendered.

You will probably not get a lot of medical input suggesting that an hysterectomy might not be the best solution, because that is what doctors peddle. They don't have any other tools to offer.

Genetically, you are half your mother and half your father. Likewise your daughter is half you and half your father. It is a big blame you are taking on yourself, saying it is your genes that are at fault. Don't blame yourself for all this. There are a lot of factors, and yes, doctors also often blame the patient when they run out of other things to blame.

Re dancing, if the style of dance you do is competitive, and the prescribed posture is the opposite of WW posture, then I suggest that you do something about this! What is important to you? Is it the enjoyment of dancing, the thrill of performing, the drive to win, the lovely costumes, the fitness training? You might be able to keep dancing if you drop the competition, change to another type of dance, or other adjustments.

Yes, I would be telling my 11 year old daughter about WW posture, because she is at an age where she has been taught this other posture through dancing, and things we learn during childhood can be very difficult to unlearn as an adult.

I think you have to take a very adult position when it comes to deciding on whether or not to dance, and how you educate your daughter about how she uses her body. I hope you are open-minded enough to be able to discuss reproduction and sexuality with her, along with the way our bodies are designed to work best. Take a deep breath ... it will be a real gift for your daughter, one that many girls do not receive from their mothers. Her body will be changing right now into a woman's body, and that will probably make her a bit gawky for a while, and change the weight balance of her body. She will be unfamiliar with her new woman's body for some years, and will need to learn how to drive it, how to use it, and how to not abuse it, all in the face of peer pressure.

Sorry if I don't sound too sympathetic, but there are some things in life that we can change to make our own lives better. Equally there are some things that we cannot change (the past). I encourage you to take responsibility for the things that you can change, both for yourself and your daughter, and not let the medical establishment take that responsibility from you. It is your body. You make the decisions with their help, not the other way around.

Louise