When I first “cracked the code” on stabilizing and reversing prolapse, and wrote and published Saving the Whole Woman, I set up this forum. While I had finally gotten my own severe uterine prolapse under control with the knowledge I had gained, I didn’t actually know if I could teach other women to do for themselves what I had done for my condition.
So I just started teaching women on this forum. Within weeks, the women started writing back, “It’s working! I can feel the difference!”
From that moment on, the forum became the hub of the Whole Woman Community. Unfortunately, spammers also discovered the forum, along with the thousands of women we had been helping. The level of spamming became so intolerable and time-consuming, we regretfully took the forum down.
Technology never sleeps, however, and we have better tools today for controlling spam than we did just a few years ago. So I am very excited and pleased to bring the forum back online.
If you are already a registered user you may now log in and post. If you have lost your password, just click the request new password tab and follow the directions.
Please review and agree to the disclaimer and the forum rules. Our moderators will remove any posts that are promotional or otherwise fail to meet our guidelines and will block repeat offenders.
Remember, the forum is here for two reasons. First, to get your questions answered by other women who have knowledge and experience to share. Second, it is the place to share your results and successes. Your stories will help other women learn that Whole Woman is what they need.
Whether you’re an old friend or a new acquaintance, welcome! The Whole Woman forum is a place where you can make a difference in your own life and the lives of thousands of women around the world!
Best wishes,
Christine Kent
Founder
Whole Woman
Christine
March 15, 2011 - 8:33pm
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thank you, BadMirror!
You are a shining light and I thank you with all my heart! ♥
clavicula
March 16, 2011 - 1:09am
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Thanks, bad_mirror, this
Thanks, bad_mirror, this summary is really empowering! I soo agree that activity helps POP. It really does!
Hope we can hear about your pregnancy. We are TTCing, so I need encouragment! :)
Liv
louiseds
March 19, 2011 - 5:05am
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Yay!
BadMirror, your comment about "The worst thing to do for prolapse is to become less active" really rang bells with me. I was amazed how a lot of walking and sitting for 35 hours, cross-legged on a small cushion, at a music festival last weekend made me feel strong and flexible. Yeah, there was some dancing too! My whole body felt alive, with not a trace of POP symptoms, at the end of the weekend!
BSMrunner
March 26, 2011 - 11:34pm
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You too
Bad_Mirror~ we came on the site about the same time. I am happy to hear you are pregnant too. I am a little farther a long than you but I guess we decided it was time huh? I think learning to be a mother, have our careers and deal with our prolapses has been a full time life experience eh? Do you know what you are having? I am waiting to find out. When are you due? Congrats
bad_mirror
March 27, 2011 - 12:41am
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BSMrunner
Yippee for us! Due August 11 or so . . . won't find out "who" we're having until the birthday, too. Full time life experience for sure! Maybe you agree -- it's been challenging, but such a rich and complex weaving into the threads of my life. I've got a stronger "fabric" for it all. Congrats to you too. Let's chat about pp recovery plans sometime . . .
BSMrunner
May 22, 2011 - 4:15pm
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How is your pregnancy going?
Hello there~ Just wondering how things are going for you? I am on the 8 week count down. How are you feeling? Any ideas on how to make sure all our parts stay in tact? :)
bad_mirror
May 22, 2011 - 10:17pm
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Hi, BSMrunner
It's going great, thanks for asking! I'm right on your tail, with about 11 weeks to go. It's flying by, which I'm actually a bit sad about, not knowing if I'll get the chance to do it ever again. I'm one of those hateful women that pregnancy treats really, really well. No morning sickness, no stretch marks, no heartburn, no cankles. Just some 'roids, and even those stay at a low roar. And as yet, no recurring cystocele. I've gained 30 lbs. so far! Last pregnancy, I gained 50, so I'm expecting about the same. I'm all belly, and look about 11 months pregnant, even though I'm just over 6! Same with my son . . . once at about six months with him, I got on the bus and one of our more "colorful" local characters said, "hey, how many ya got in there?" Last week, another bus stranger asked me my due date then said, "whoa, you're gonna be HUGE!" (Thank you. Thank you very much.) I'm getting friendly comments like, "you look ready to pop any day now!" and I sweetly reply, "well, since I have about three months to go, probably not." The look on their faces is priceless. I've been pretty active, walk about 9 miles a week and 1-2 ballet classes without jumps, plus trying to keep up with my 2.5 year old.
As for plans to keep an intact vagina . . . am doing another home water birth with my same midwife. She is pretty hands off anyway, but aware of my wishes to birth on hands and knees and "breathe" the baby out rather than push. I plan to spend the first three days in bed, with strong WW sitting postures or lying flat, balanced with short periods of WW standing. I will flap my arms on the way to the bathroom! After that, building up to short walks, pelvic rocks, etc. I am going to try my best not to lift anything heavier than my newborn for 6 weeks, which may be hard when caring for my son as well. (Alemama and Granolamom, anything to add regarding recovering from birth post-pop?) Mostly, I am trying to cultivate an attitude that keeps fear at bay -- if I have no birth trauma, and I get my lumbar curve going ASAP, what do I have to fear?
I would love to hear how you are doing, too. We may need each other for the postpartum haul!
rosebush
May 25, 2011 - 12:48am
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Feeling positive about prolapse
I was "diagnosed" with stage 3 rectocele/cystocele about six months ago. Had six weeks of pelvic floor bio-feedback therapy and did lots of kegels...which along with dietary changes (reducing acidic juice intake) have helped minor urinary incontinence. But, still alot of bulging of bladder and rectum into vagina....discomfort, difficulty completely emptying bladder, difficulty controlling bowel movements, etc. Was thinking surgery was my only option until finding WholeWoman....and what a difference a few weeks has made!
I have the Saving the Whole Woman book and am working on the posture, which is amazingly helpful in just a few days.
In addition, I ordered and have used the sea sponges for prolapse, from JadePearl....they helped immensely on an initial, emergency basis, especially during exercise/walking. But while the sponges seem to have helped in restoring bladder and rectum to a somewhat benign state of prolapse, my uterus seems to have taken their place and to be in pronounced state of prolapse....almost what is described as procedentia....and my cervix looks reddish and angry, maybe from the sponges rubbing on it? Has anyone had that experience with the sponges or with an angry looking cervix? I am scheduled for a surgical consult on this whole matter next week (scheduled before I discovered WholeWoman), so doctor can hopefully determine if cervix is okay. However, I feel very confident that I can manage this prolapse condition using the help of this community and the products offered from Whole Woman. I will report back on the doctor's visit. Meanwhile, I am continuing postural work and have ordered the FirstAid for Prolapse DVD. I am soooooooo thankful to have found you all. I think I can do this!
Rosebush
Sammy
May 25, 2011 - 9:02am
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Hi rosebush! One thing I can
Hi rosebush!
One thing I can say to you regarding surgery-- even if it succeded in taping the sags up- you then are surgically compromised. For me it was so stupid to not realize that not lifting my grandkids over 20 lbs was lik e a magnet not attracting iron- it not likely would be so. Also surgery messes up your abdomen and it is likely true that elective surgery should be avoided. I find it difficult to be in a world where so many choices are proposed to those seeking advise when those with the advise are not certain of the outcomes- "Pessary before sugery, posture before pessary.
doubtful
May 25, 2011 - 2:08pm
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sponges and cervixes
Hi Rosebush
Glad to hear you had some success with the sponges. I found them a godsend when I was first diagnosed. Didn't have problems with them, but then I am pre-menopausal with just a urethrocele to contend with. Not sure if you are pre or post meno- they can be harsher on a post meno vagina. Have you tried olive oil?
I think I remember Christine writing that sponges seem to be less helpful for uterine prolapse. This may be depressing news. The encouraging bit, however, is that it was her own severe uterine prolapse that started Christine on her research and she has managed hers successfully through posture, exercise and diet.
Sorry - I'm making friendly noises but am a bit out of my depth here. Could you describe how prolapsed your uterus seems to be, and could some other women who have experienced profound uterine prolapse come in here?
I can imagine you are feeling very anxious with your symptoms and a doctor's visit coming up. We need some more experienced and battle hardened whole women to offer their experience/ tips.
Hugs
Doubtful
Christine
May 25, 2011 - 4:23pm
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uterine prolapse
Hi Rosebush,
This area between bladder and uterus is very interesting and not well understood. The common theory is that UP occurs when upper supportive “ligaments” give way, while cystocele happens when lower fascial supports stretch and tear. No gynecologic theory ever mentions the round ligaments. Would-be gynecologists have been seduced into thinking that these important structures - analogous to the spermatic cords in men - have no supportive value. It is a theory that does not hold water when viewed in light of the actual pelvic organ support system.
From what I’m able to comprehend, most UP occurs with significant cystocele, however most cystocele occurs without significant UP. In natural UP, the prolapsed front wall is shaped like an avocado with a dimple at the bottom (the cervix). My surgically-induced condition is different. I have no cystocele/rectocele, but a muscular, round “neck” sitting sometimes higher, sometimes lower in my vagina.
My cervix is no longer connected to the other side of that avocado, because my bladder neck was tethered tightly to my abdominal wall, pulling (stretching) my bladder and cervix apart. A cervix freed from the more natural avocado looks a lot like a fat penis. :-/
This is the first I’ve heard that a sponge might have caused a similar occurrence. Unlike my condition, any fascia stretching would be lower, superficial and probably reversible.
Fascia is very stretchy stuff, which allows the organs mobility while performing their individual functions. It’s easy to see how holding one of two prolapsed organs up might allow the other to slide past it.
Well...nothing to be done but tip the entire bowl of jello forward with Whole Woman posture! If your symptoms prove to be too intolerable for the time being, you might look into a cube pessary, which will push the whole ball of wax forward. It will hold your vagina open to intraabdominal pressure, though, so might worsen the rectocele.
It is a delicate balance!
Christine
Christine
May 25, 2011 - 4:53pm
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"Pessary before sugery, posture before pessary"
Another WW maxim...thank you, Sammy!
rosebush
May 25, 2011 - 10:42pm
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uterine prolapse
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. It is so gratifying to know there are so many caring women in this community.
By way of important biographical info: I am 60 years old, post-menopausal, 2 vaginal births, with episiotomy for the first birth, births interspersed with 2 abortions, and a not too traumatic fall on my butt about four years ago, which is when the prolapses seem to have started.
Anyway, the sea sponges have been amazing at relieving recto/cystocele and seemingly restoring bladder and rectum to their proper places. Was able to empty bladder with ease while wearing sponge (some urine does get trapped in the sponge, though). But, problem is that with rectum and bladder out of the way, now can see prolapsed uterus very well and my cervix looks odd to me: reddish and "angry" looking. So I have stopped using the sponges and am concentrating on the posture, which as I said before is really amazing in how quickly it works. But now sometimes feel like I'm sitting on my uterus, which can't be good for it....
I like the idea of trying olive oil on the sponge and I have used wild yam cream on it for lubrication...maybe that's what's irritating cervix? I've even thought about the biblical treatment of wine and pomegranates!
This is a journey....and I'm so thankful for the company!
Rosebush
Christine
May 26, 2011 - 8:04am
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sitting on cervix
It's great to have you with us, Rosebush. Please don't worry about your cervix getting squished. I've found it to be a remarkably tough organ, but have certainly kept mine away from any and all hormones. C.
Christine
May 26, 2011 - 1:18pm
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I better qualify that..
A basic principle of the WW work is that the organs must be inside the body. If WW posture and exercise are not enough to keep them there, a pessary is needed.
Prolapse can be inside the body and still feel like you are sitting on a ball. If it is very low, it can be pulled forward with firebreathing. The uterus can feel like it might be getting squished, when in fact it is only a few centimeters lower than its normally tightly packed position higher in the pelvis.
mommy2
May 28, 2011 - 6:58am
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Support
Bad mirror- when you said you used a tampon for support, do you just put a dry tampon in? I am not looking for a pessary, but would like to try a tampon.
bad_mirror
May 28, 2011 - 10:37am
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Tampon as support
Yes, using a tampon helped as I began to synthesize the postures and get moving. I needed it less and less as the months went by, and don't feel the need for it at all now. I used a well-lubricated (some people like olive oil, but I used an organic lube similar to KY), unbleached product and later switched to menstrual sized sea sponge tampons from jade and pearl. Some people find the sponges irritating, but I did not. You may have to get creative with insertion of a tampon or sponge by lying on your back or doing nauli to get everything into optimal position, but I found I rarely had to do that. I like tampons for support because they are cheap and you are in control of your body's day to day needs. Hope that helps!
mommy2
May 30, 2011 - 9:20am
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Thank you
Your post has given me motivation that I can still do this at 3mo pp. My cystocele is becoming a nusance. I will also try the tampon and sponge for support and I hope for your success.
selmacl1906
September 21, 2012 - 3:43pm
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very inspiring
very inspiring story, thank you for sharing. needed to hear this today =)
MsNightingale
December 9, 2012 - 11:54am
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Dear bad_mirror
Wow....what a post and what hope you bring to this world. Thank you to whomever reposted this!
caterpillar7
December 31, 2012 - 10:35pm
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wow
I just read this! So inspiring.....It gives me some hope
MissHope
November 21, 2017 - 12:47am
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If u can do it, I can do it too!
Hi Christine & Bad Mirror
I’m 5 weeks PP my second son. With my first I had a recriceke and I was concerned going into a second pregnancy.... but amazingly 4 weeks pp for the first time in. Really long time I felt NOTHING
downstairs... like nothing! I was so happy and excited it was like my body did heal but pregnancy must of finished off the healing... I wonder if it’s to do with the extra blood supply during pregnancy... which would explain bad mirror saying being active is the key also (more circulation).
I couldn’t believe how well my body was feeling.... but my shoulders / neck were tight (adjusting to breast feeding) and I was feeling a little stressed so I thought a mums and bubs yoga class might help.... little did I know that the class was mostly pelvic exercises and also included crunches and squats.... I came away from that class with a ‘I can feel something downstairs again’ .... needless to say I’m angry with myself for being so stupid.... as I believe as a result of the class now I have a cystocele.
I’m so glad I found this post though.... if you can do it BadMirror so can I!
Just wondering Christine if Whole Woman Solution to Pelvic Organ Prolapse is the same video as Nad Mirror bought and also what sponges are referred too?
I want that feeling back - of nothing! No bauble feeling, no niggle, no bulge.. NOTHING!
I want to come back here in a couple of months or 6 and tell my own success story.
Surviving60
November 21, 2017 - 5:21am
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Products
First Aid for Prolapse is available in the WW Store (DVD or streaming). This is not the same as the streaming program called The Whole Woman Solution to Pelvic Organ Prolapse. There is a 25% sale going on until December 1st (check your e-mail for coupon code). We don't have many members using sponges with much success, but you can search for posts on those and Google where to get them (WW doesn't sell them). Lots of luck on your journey and don't forget to keep us posted. Rectocele is very manageable with the WW work, but this isn't a quick fix......it is a fundamental change in how you carry yourself throughout your day. Takes time and patience to internalize the concepts but it is so worth the effort. - Surviving
KylaRae03
April 5, 2018 - 10:39pm
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These are the stories I
These are the stories I search for on the forum
Time4Tea
May 8, 2018 - 11:29pm
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Thank you Bad Mirror!
First day as a new member, and I see your post! You give us all hope!