Wallowing in self pity...

The question you ask is indeed a big one, and I think you will have to reach deeply into yourself, particularly your spiritual self, for an answer that will mean something to you.

Having deeply held beliefs pulled out from under you like a carpet can leave you feeling like a stranded cockroach, with nothing in reach to cling onto.

This part of your POP journey may be the most challenging part, finding out who you are, what are your god-given gifts, and what really matters in this life. Go gently. Be kind to yourself. Cease judging others, and cease judging yourself. Lower your expectations of others, and lower your expectations of yourself. Begin to love others and yourself unconditionally. You will eventually realise that there is not only one 'beautiful', that youthful beauty fades, and that inner beauty grows.

You are just as worthy of love as anyone else on this planet. Sex is only a part of love, but love matters much more than sex in the long run. Do ugly people have less meaningful relationships? I don't think so. Do ugly people receive or give any less love than anyone else? I don't think so. Do ugly people get any less sex than anyone else? I doubt it! And who defines what ugly is, anyway???

Mismatch in sex drive is very common. It is how you make your way through it and remain sane that really matters. Maybe your expectations are unrealistic? Maybe your partner needs to grow too? Maybe your partner has unspoken reasons for not being interested in sex? Maybe your partner will never be interested in sex Some people are not. That is just the way they are made.

Whatever happens, I hope you can use this revelation about beauty that you have experienced to explore these things with your partner, and become the person you are, instead of who you wanted to be.

I don't think you are shallow or pathetic. I think you are incredibly brave for writing on the Forum about these fears you have, and by doing so, started a journey which is already scarey for you, before you even get out the front gate. There is more to you than you think. Dig deep and find the beauty and worth that is already in you.

You might find it useful to seek out a professional to help you with this.

Louise

I think we all care about how we look, some of us are forced to struggle with this issue earlier than others. I've never felt good about how I look but by the time I was in my late teens I'd made peace with it. I know I am more than my body, I've learned to be proud of who I am, what is in my head and heart, my behaviors, etc. I guess if up until now you've been able to love your outside, maybe you never had the opportunity to see how beautiful the rest of you is too. so now's your opportunity and I bet that by the time you take note of all the beauty within, you will be feeling better about your outsides too.
POP hit me hard because I was never in a million years thinking something like this would happen and it feels like it means something is wrong with who I am as a woman. but that's psychological/emotional stuff that you can work with. I've come to accept my POP the way I've accepted the developing laugh lines around my eyes and my no-longer-perky boobs. Its ok, its not a reflection of ME. I still take care of how I look and I do feel pretty, even though by some objective measure others make describe me differently.

Louiseds- you could have been talking to me!

Winni- you asked how we managed this aspect of diagnosis.. Please realize it is how we are managing.. it does not seem to be a destiny but an ongoing parallel reality that we did not know existed. Yesterdy, for abour 3 hours I had a super sized tampon and after filling my vagina with replens, it kept the balloon like bulge inside my body and it was an incredible sense of relief that I could find this reprieve. Also I started looking more realistically at the POSTURE of this site. The sitting and the standing. I printed them out and studied the book. I had my husband help me to understand what might be meant. I have been sitting and standing for over 60 years and it is not easy for me to recognize that not only is a change in method existing but that the change is beneficial to me.
I had to take the tampon out because it was agravating a sore i have up there- and am now realizing I must ask the surgeion I see on Thursday what this sore is about that bleeds... I had an MRI just a few weeks ago and was told nothing alarming going on..
If you have read Saving the Whole Woman it is quite clear that the author has a great deal of love for the female body - it is an intelligent and sensitive counsel for woman with POP as well as a critique of surgical treatment
I am every bit wallowing about this as you are but in reality, if it goes away, I am still wallowing about other stuff and have the general task of dealing with the general restlessness of life..
wish I had 3 kids- i had only 2 They are wonderful but I do not see them enough. Yours must be still with you - they do make their own way soon enough- Share what you can with them of this experience - it is how they learn and thank you for sharing with us

Hi, All.

Christine, thank you for the thoughtful piece you wrote on saving the world from itself. I would like to give a deserving response but need a little time as I am in survival mode today, much like Winnie but along with the mind-tiredness of pain and discomfort.

A word to Winnie - thank you for the post. It resonated with me. And to all of you who read this site but haven't ever posted, that's fine, BUT please know it helps us to hear from you if you do post. What you are thinking/wondering/figuring out, we also would like to know. We might be struggling with the same thing you are. Or able to pass on advice if u bring up this or that. As Christine is implying, in saving ourselves and one another, we save the world.

So here's my present though apparently always fluctuating state of things...I did manage to maintain my sanity in the midst of fighting off the panic about the panic. Thanks for the most recent reminders that y'all (and you, Doubtful :) Just gave me. Thank goodness for the reminder.

How low Nicki's gotten had mescared again. But more so the awfulness of the feeling. Pain like digging in and a weird, super heavy feeling. And overall maliaise, and just such a frickin' bulging feeling, and the inability to sleep, sit or walk or stand or think because of worry and discomfort.

I have those moments that you are talking about, Winnie. Well more than moments. The pain and discomfort and worry actually give those thoughts a backseat for me right now though. But know what helps me a lot when I start thinking like that and grappling with all that stuff you mentioned, Winnie?

One cant choose to be born with good looks. So it's not like looks can be "mine" or that I "deserve it." Looks are a gift. People who look good are no more valuable than people who are thought not too! Even though we as a society as a whole act like it's the case! Women who are especially beautiful can act like they are special, but know what? It's not true. We are all the same, no one's better than anyone else. I know you believe it too, but sometimes it helps to think about that, kind of dwell on that....

I found it really, really, helps when I start thinking about my looks/the sudden decline ...(Well, first let me tell you that I had the absolute perfect breasts. Even at 50, they look like I could be 19. It was the one sure thing I always had going for me..: ) But...someone here suggested removing your bra and spending time like that...and so after a month, for the very first time ever, I realized o what have I done? A month without a bra had a bit of an effect. There's no undoing that now. I could kick myself. And I get kind of what you're talking about. The suddenness of this, the seeming needlessness of this, the suddenly having to feel good about oneself when one doesn't). Back to my point, what helps me when I start to go down this road is thinking about this; REALLY thinking about it: There are people who never marry, never have kids, never have a boyfriend - ever - and yet I met a wonderful guy who was so madly in love with me he couldn't stop bragging about me. I had two beautiful children, who are growing up to be fantastic people. I had fantastic jobs...you get the picture. It's very seriously a HUGE way out of all of this misery, when one "counts one's blessings."

Sounds corny, but Winnie, I really believe it's key. Get a piece of paper, Winnie. Write down what you like and appreciate about your looks. Each thing. "I have nice eyes, I have...etc, etc.."

Now make a list, and really feel the appreciation of this next list, too...a list of things you have had in your life that not everyone has. Then list all the things TODAY you are grateful for..Then list all the things that went right today.

Know what it does? You start FEELING like a blessed, person who has A LOT - and it gives you not only gratitude, but it gives you a sense of abundance, accomplishment, and CONFIDENCE. It changes your focus. Think of a camera taking a photo of a girl, miserably rolling her eyes at a guy on a sofa. How would u describe that event? A miserable night at that house, egh? But what if the camera pulls back and you see it's actually a house with a party with 100 people laughing and joking and dancing and happy........suddenly you see that girl was just rolling her eyes at a bad joke, it's not a bad night, it's a great night.

I say that as example, because when we're not making our lists we are focused on our this our that, and not seeing the real, bigger scene of our lives. I'm furious that I have to face this horrible condition. But like the girl rolling her eyes - it's only what's happening right now, right here. I also have kids who are at school and very happy and I'm happy they're happy. And I'm comfy at home at the moment.....etc etc. There's a bigger picture.

Okay, there, I talked myself out of my misery. lol lol

My pessary appointment is two hours from now and I am living for it! I had a BIG pity party for the past 12 hours.

Time to pull myself back together, pray for my miracle, get myself dressed, and get to the doctor filled with hope that I will happy come home with my new best friend, Mademoiselle Pessary.

Peace, all.......we can do this, we can do this, we can do this, right?? lol
csf

Hi Winni

There is nothing weak about feeling loss. You're allowed to feel upset/ angry.

Is it the pop or your post -children body generally that is making you feel you are not beautiful? If it's the POP - that's something that is completely invisible - other will still see you as you were before the diagnosis. If you were beautiful before POP/ children I bet you still are -you're just not nineteen any more.

I was never confident about my looks - suffered from anorexia/ bulimia in my teens/ twenties but I actually felt more confident about my body as I had babies in my thirties - until a diagnosis of pop had me imagining myself as a pitiful old lady. The feeling didn't last - honestly! Feeling ugly is so much to do with our perceptions and so little to do with reality.

Doubtful

Hi Winnie, Im so sorry you feel like this and sympathize like the other posters before me.Im not so good at expressing myself at times, so here goes....you will get heaps better and Louise has expressed so well that we have an inner spiritual self that becomes more than the outer self, once we tap into it.For me , that has been over the last decade. I am a good deal older than you but I so remember being your age, when my third child was still a baby , as Id had partial prolapse within days of his birth.Fixed(or so I thought) by some cream the doc gave me and bedrest.But looking back I see, plenty of symptoms building up to this and after. I did realise the impact of some of my activities and chores.
There is good chance of you having better improvement, and learning to avoid what contributes to making POP worse.
I'm not dwelling on the posture and exercise here in this post, as many others can tell you better than I , although I am happy with all of that.
Staying with the spiritual side of how we feel about ourselves I'll give you an example of my day today...I had been feeling miserable for a few days with lower back ache, the weather has been getting colder but still changeable.I am up early but often go back to bed with a book and short snooze, when I can.Anyway I put on "slop at a home clothes" and carried on with my chores for a few hours but that nag took a hold, I was lucky to get a chiro appointment for lunchtime.
With not much time I flew into the shower, shaved my legs, washed my hair, dried off, and mosturised my whole body and for me that also inlcudes the POP internal areas with my homemade bliss balm.Sprayed on a nice perfume, put on a warmer summer dress and cardy and wedged summer shoes and a lick of natural makeup, hair partly dried.I felt HEAPS better than before all this girly effort btw. Got to the chiro, got a good workover and some very tender bits worked on, and feel heaps better.
Now this might seem very paltry but boy when we look after our external body it does make our internal feel better too.Have you any places in your area offering healing, an aunt put me onto a group, luckily in my area, a few years ago and I go weekly.It is open to anyone, any denomination.We have a small group with the ocassional person who wanders in, any age male or female are welcome.This year I found a meditation group,and that is a spiritual awareness and growth process which I feel is helping me.I have a lovely book that supports the essence of a woman, I think I can mention it here, it can be bought cheaply secondhand from betterbooks just google them. Its called Simple Abundance by Sarah Ban Breathnach.I love it and read a little every morning along with my Wholewoman info.I feel better about myself and she has revived some lovely womanly practices.WE are all different and having our own journey in this life.If we can listen to our gut feelings, in peace and quiet eg having a cuppa in a quiet lovely place at home in or out and reflecting, and finding out who and what we are to ourselves.
I hope you find this place and Im sure you will with much input from here and taking any advice that works for you.With love ,
Kiwigirl :-)

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!! Welcome winni...we are just having the best pity party ever!!! We're all sharing, caring, opening our hearts to each other....how cool is that? I'm putting this at the top of my "attitude of gratitude" list...I'm connected to a loving group of women who have a profound understanding of what I'm experiencing...physically, emotionally and spiritually.

I am of the belief that the universe does not do "vacuums". If something goes away, something else is ready to take its place. I loved what louiseds wrote in her latest post, "You will eventually realise that there is not only one 'beautiful', that youthful beauty fades, and that inner beauty grows." Well stated!

As I wrote in my first-ever post a few days ago, I've also been freaking out about losing my youthful body. I'm sixty-two and people are always amazed at how young I look...well, until now. Life's a bitch. After allowing simmer time for all that you fantastic women wrote, I just got over it and I'm ready to move on. I tried on and discarded all of the beautiful pants I've bought that are too tight...many new as I was certain my diet and exercise efforts would pay off. Enter POP.

One last thing...and I hope you get a laugh out of this. I was standing in line at Michael's (craft store) and my eyes landed on a book sitting on the counter. The title was "POP" something or other, having to do with making cookies. After my initial gasp and the thought that someone or something was out to get me, I had a good laugh;)

Hi CSF

Hope the pessary appointment goes OK, that it fits, and that it stays put, and that it decides to stay inside with Nicki.

When you eventually take this new pessary out again (Birth it? Whoo, that was a bit Freudian!) I think you need to decide whether it is male or female. Nicki probably won't mind either way. It will be either a friend or a friend with benefits.

Will it be Persephone or Percival? I guess you will have to clean it, so how about giving it a dunk and bringing it out of the water with a new name and a can do' attitude to boot!

You also mentioned the effect of removing your bra, "A month without a bra had a bit of an effect." I can't remember, what sort of effect did it have? Jessie might not have been around then.

Jessie-girl, Re beauty. Beauty is somebody's perception of the attractiveness of a person that they make up in their heads by reading the configuration of the outermost molecules of a person's body and clothing, combining it with how attractively the sounds come out of their mouth, the odour and pheromones they give off, the language of their eyes, the way they move in space, the cultural connotations of beauty and ugliness themselves, how they treat others around them, whether their religion/culture even allows them to regard another person as beautiful, the genetic predispositions that scientists seems to think we have about what we 'know' to be beautiful, whether other people we respect (or think are beautiful) think they are beautiful, and probably a heap of other factors.

All this by reading a layer of molecules on the very outside of them, where their body meets the world around them!!!!

Beauty can also be a curse. The very fact that first impressions of beauty ignore *everything* else about the person can mean that a 'beautiful' person is forever fighting off the advances of people for whom skin deep beauty is the meaning of life. It is hard to 'become known as a whole person' when there is a stereotypically beautiful surface for another human to break through to find the real you on the inside.

I know a man who is an incredibly sexy little dude, about 35, with *beautiful* tattooes, a great body, a rugged, attractive smile, sparkling eyes, a gallows sense of humour, an artist's mind (and vocation), a tender-hearted man, who is scared of his new computer and a lot of other irrational fears, I imagine. However, I also know that he has an anger management problem, a string of ex-lovers, a collection of children all over the country, none of whom he sees regularly, no money, and a messed up life. This poor man is his own worst enemy. Women are irresistably drawn to him. He probably basks in the attention, but the thought of getting close to another woman is like the prospect of being bitten by a snake. He now just avoids women, because they always end up causing him trouble.

There is always more than first impressions can possibly convey. How false the curse of beauty can be. Sure, if you are 'beautiful', lots of other beautiful people want to know you, and to be with you, but their interest is purely selfish, and their expectations high, until you get to know each other and decide whether or not the surface tells the story of their inner heart.

The other side of it is that beautiful people are often not trusted at first, because of the 'beautiful' mask they wear.

They are also often initially thought to be lacking in intelligence, and other useful qualities, eg Reece Witherspoon's character in Legally Blonde.

You only need to look at Hollywood's celeb population to see what 'beauty' does to a person's chances of leading a normal life and keeping their feet firmly on the ground, and having healthy relationships, and keeping it all in perspective. Some manage it, but many seem to come apart badly, and don't know who they are.

Perhaps only another 'beautiful' person can understand the plight of a 'beautiful' person, and know how unimportant beauty is.

I am not saying 'beauty' is bad, simply misunderstood. Jessie, take off your mask and let people know what you are really like. Make the most of your physical assets by all means, choose whether or not to wear a little makeup and *a little* fragrance, care for your body and your hair, dress to make yourself feel good, not to impress others or put out, but to be comfortable in yourself. If you are comfortable, neat and clean, you will be beautiful to others. Less *is* more.

When I was your age, and when my daughter was your age, makeup and clothing were the woman. We could all have looked a lot more beautiful if we had been less extreme in our quest for beauty. Even then, the most beautiful women were the ones whose natural features shone through, who were comfortable enough to allow others to see them. The ugly ones were those who wore heavy makeup, those who were trying to hide unwanted facial features with contrived use of colour, and who showed themselves to be totally self-obsessed; those who plucked their eyebrows to twin new moons; the ones who spent most of their spare time with a mirror in their hands or ferreting around in their handbag for lippy; the ones who were trying to wear clothes designed for someone else's body. It was all a bit Stanley Kubrick, high-coloured and bizarre ... or was it the drugs I was taking at the dawn of the 70's?

Louise