ok is this a cystocele or urethrocele or both? I should have never taken a mirror!

Submitted by lilemma on July 8, 2011 - 5:59pm
Body: 

I posted earlier about my newly discovered cystocele/rectocele. Im 30 years old, 4.5 months postpartum, first child delivered vaginally, bad labor. So I took the mirror again and examined things a bit more closely. It seems like today I am feeling the need to pee a lot, but not passing a lot of urine, just normal amounts. almost like when you get a UTI.
I checked and it seems like my urethra is super low, like in my vaginal opening. And it doesn't seem to be closing all the way. Now I'm paranoid that bacteria from my vagina is getting into my urethra and is going to cause a UTI. Below the urethra is a small bulge, and then behind that is another small bulge. When i run my fingers over them, there are almost like two separate bulges. So now I believe it I have a cystourethrocele. I also have a recotocele though it is asymptomatic. I think that it is mild. When I bear down, nothing protrudes or even comes close, but it does drop further into my vagina so that the two are touching. During my labor I had a remant of my hymen removed and I can see where they removed it a sutured me. It goes right up to the edge of my urethra.
Surely, things are just not in the right spots. I've ordered the DVDS and book and am waiting for arrival. I read up on posture and have been trying to use it today. I think that because I know what is going on, I am overly in tune with things and now I keep noticing sensations that I didn't before. If I hadn't looked down there last weekend, i wouldn't have ever dreamed what was brewing. I swear, ignorance, in that regard, is bliss. The good part is that I can hopefully fix things. Ok, so I have some questions and I really truly want honest feedback. #1) Is this really going to get better? I know because I am postpartum things will likely improve tremendously but it is almost like I am too scared to become hopeful. I picture myself with my bladder hanging out my vagina in a year. I know, I know, this thinking is toxic but I am still in the shocked and devastated phase. #2) Does this really happen to almost everyone postpartum? I have been on a mission the past few days asking my friends who have just had babies how things are healing up down there. Pretty much all of them said "totally fine, back to normal", etc. When I ask them if they have looked inside, NOT ONE has ventured in. I'm starting to think that this must happen to many many woman but its the super curious ones who figure it out. #3) Can I do yoga still? I LoVE yoga!!! I also walk on the treadmilll every day, is this ok?
I have to just get it out of my system and say that I am feeling so incredibly down and hopeless, and actually blown away by this. A week ago I was the happiest woman in the universe, walking down the street with my baby girl in the ergo carrier, enjoying the sunshine, eating ice cream, heading home with my husband to have great sex. I thought life was perfect. I couldn't believe how well i'd recovered. i'm back to my prepregnancy weight, can fit in all my old jeans (though they are a bit tight which could be contributing I know), don't have even one stretch mark, and loving the fact that I still have ten more months off of work to be with my baby. Now, all I can do is think about my vaginal walls. I find myself compulsively checking myself 2,5,6, 7 times a day. I am searching the internet for answers. I feel so guilty because I should be enjoying my daughter and instead I am obsessing over my body. I feel totally alone. Although my husband is supportive, he is kind of downplaying teh whole thing. He keeps saying "You know that this happens to alot of woman so why are you so worried?". He doesn't know the first thing about the female body of course, and he says he doesn't notice so I'm sure this is why he just cant understand my feelings about this. I really am so sad, I can't even cry. I've tried to cry but nothing comes out. I just want to know it will go away. I was nursing my baby tonight and it crossed my mind that because of pregnancy, my boobs are just never going to be the same. They used to be nice perky B cups, now they are droopy D cups and won't ever be the same. The funny thing is, I could care less. But the thought of my vagina dropping is driving me nuts. And by the way, I am a nurse practitioner. I'm pretty experienced, pretty smart when it comes to medicine and I must say in all my studies I didn't read anything much about prolapse in the postpartum population. I read like ten pregnancy books and OB books and not one mentioned this. Saggy boobs - yes, I epxected this. But saggy bladder, rectum and urethra? Totally not. I've done probably close to 2000 pelvic exams but on teenagers and young woman mostly, and not postpartum woman in their first year. I've seen prolapse in the 70 year olds I've examined, but not the younger ones. I guess that is why I just didn't expect this and I guess that is why I am having such a hard time.

lilemma

July 8, 2011 - 6:35pm

I just want to say also what a life saver this site is. I can honestly say that in my health care training the cirriculum did not really touch on holistic or alternative methods of healing and I do think it is just so important. I am so grateful for this site, I cant' say it enough.

louiseds

July 8, 2011 - 9:08pm

:-)

Have you had answers, in your other thread, to the other questions you posed in this topic?

Yoga question, the answer is yes and no. Yoga was designed for men, not women. Use the Forums search box to find other topics about yoga. There used to be an article by Christine in the Library called A New Yoga for Women, but I think it has been developed into the new yoga video, 2:40 excerpts of which can be seen on YouTube, Wholewomaninc channel. It had great explanations and photos of how you can amend traditional yoga poses for the woman's body. Search Yoga in the Library. Three articles by other authors are your hits.

Happy exploring.

Louise

bad_mirror

July 8, 2011 - 10:11pm

Yeah, the mirror sucks. Hence my online moniker! I had a hateful mirror relationship as a professional ballerina, and then again with POP. Yuck.

Welcome. I'm 34 and discovered a cystocele after the very gentle home water birth of my son almost three years ago. I've been practicing WW posture since then, and would say I recovered 99.9%. Now, I'm 35 weeks pregnant with my second baby. I've had no problems, and I have no fear regarding POP for my upcoming birth and pp recovery. I am also a brand new RN (passed NCLEX two weeks ago) and yeah, I pretty much laughed myself through every bit of female urology/reproductive/OB lectures and clinicals, having gained the knowledge here about correct female anatomy, posture, and better birthing practices.

First off, I read a lot of anxiety in your posts. That's ok. It's normal. But recognize your anxiety for what it is, and try to regain focus. From your accounts, your POP sounds mild and rather asymptomatic, right? You probably had POP before you looked, and life was good. This *is* a hard thing to wrap your mind around, to accept. The mental aspect is sometimes the most difficult, for sure.

Let's see if I can answer your questions:
1) YES! It takes time. And work. But YES!! I have read that traditional Chinese medicine recognizes that pp recovery is a period of two years, and I concur. You are just beginning in your healing potential! If you do nothing, it will probably improve. If you do WW, how on earth would your bladder hang out? The posture places the organs over bone, instead of a hole, and every single breath you take works to pin the organs in place. Forget what you learned in school -- *this* is true female anatomy, and it is wonderously made to resist POP and recover from it.
2)Yes, it has been said on here before that the only pp women who do not experience at least a little POP are the ones who do not look. And don't take every woman's answer at face value -- who among us really wants to aknowledge a droopy crotch in conversation?
3)Yoga? Louise has articulated that answer well. I think there is no activity off limits, as long as you are attentive to your form and have enough awareness to modify anything that is causing discomfort or undesirable intra-abdominal pressures. Plenty of women here take yoga. Learn nauli -- it is yogic breathing that powerfully restores pelvic contents to their rightful spots. As for walking, YES! Walking in posture pulls things well forward. Put your treadmill on the steepest incline you can handle. My first POP "breakthrough" came for me at 5 months pp. I was in quite a state, screamed the "f" word a few times, and walked like a maniac on a steeply inclined treadmill in posture. Guess what? Cystocele gone. It was back not long after, but started to go away for longer periods of time over the next two years. Grab your baby and walk and walk and walk. My "best" days were on my feet for 12 hours during clinicals -- in posture, of course.

I've read in your other posts that you are worried about sex. Again, I assure you this is likely more mental than physical. Honestly, a nice large glass of wine (if you are amenable to drinking) in these early days will go a long way towards helping you feel aroused, comfortable, and come to the realization that POP interferes very little with sex.

Also breastfeeding -- try side lying. My favorite is cross-legged on the floor, with pillows to position the baby at a comfortable height. Breast-feed as long as you like! Forget that "estrogen myth" having impact on POP. Sure, it helps with lubrication and therefore comfort, but POP is an *orthopedic* problem, not an endocrine one.

Keep asking questions, read the articles in the Library, and try tracking the posts of these members: granolamom, alemama, clavicula, lovemyboys, and me, bad_mirror. (There are others I am leaving out, but can't recall at the moment). We've been there with pp POP, and we've improved significantly. Maybe you will find something useful.

Take care! You will heal. You will.

lilemma

July 9, 2011 - 7:07am

Bad mirror! What a name, how very appropriate! Thanks so much for your very helpful response. I woke up today feeling more hopeful. Congrats on passing your nclex! I'm sure going through this will make you an even better and more enlightened nurse. Yes, these past few months I've had a powerful lesson in woman's health. How unfortunate that this knowledge cannot be found in textbooks. I will certainly be teaching my daughter ww posture as she grows.I am not totally sure I have the posture right, I've ordered the book and DVD but it hasn't arrived Just yet. From what I gather on this forum, the main thing is to raise your chest and crown of head, relax abdomen to allow natural curvature of lumbar spine. I can really feel it in my lower back, a stretch - but it feels good. I read in the forum, I think Louise had posted to test by placing on finger on coccyx and one on pubic bone in my normal posture and ww posture to see and wow there is a difference. Well thanks again. So very helpful and appreciated. I'm sure you'll see many questions posted by me'!

louiseds

July 9, 2011 - 7:17am

Ooohh yes, Badmirror. Congratulations are in line for you for passing your NCLEX exams. What a fine achievement for you. You struggled with so much to get there. Now we'll wait for your next bit of baby news. Not long now!

L

clavicula

July 9, 2011 - 11:13am

Hi, Lilemma,

Welcome to the froums! I am 31, was 28 when I discovered my POPs. You are not alone here!
Just came to encourage you: stay hopeful, this time next year, if you stick around, you would encourage young postpartum moms here. This is what I try to do here now, lol.
My first year post partum was a misery, I was depressed, scared and I hated my body. I was only 28, for crying out loud! For me it took months, almost a year to see significant improvement but everything improved. As of today, my cystocele (maybe urethrocele as well, I was never properly diagnosed) is gone, my rectocele is asymptomatic.
Losts of ladies here experiences faster improvement of their symptoms, especially those who have only 1 (better or worse) birth and are young. You definitely fall into this category. My POPs developed after my 3rd birth.

Please, trust in your body, calm down, it will get better sooner or later. Learn posture, eat good food, have enough rest and try nauli/firebreathing...and stay positive. Everything will improve and you will feel so much better!

Hugs! We all have been there, so we know how hard this is at first! Keep us posted, ask your questions and use the search box: tons of info and encouragement here!

Liv

lilemma

July 9, 2011 - 8:36pm

Thank you so much to all of you ....I really cannot believe the woman on this site taking the time to reply. I feel 100% better emotionally than I did yesterday after all of these inspiring and comforting posts. I have decided that I'm not going to look at things for two more weeks, before I go see my gynecologist. Tonight I was out at a BBQ and when I was driving home, I realized that I hadn't thought of pop for five hours. I truly have not felt a single thing today. I've been trying to stay in posture. I hope you are correct in saying that I will be encouraging new mums next year at this time.
I think part of the problem is that when I discovered my prolapses I immediately went to google and saw horrid pictures, sad stories and not one place said that postpartum prolapse is in most cases a normal finding, except of course, this site. The words cystocele and rectocele almost always turn up on a page which also discusses surgical repair. My first though was "I'm so abnormal", in fact when I discovered it, I spent some time researching and when my husband came home I was crying on the bed, honestly thinking I would need to undergo major surgery. I think that woman need to be warned. About this in the postpartum period. It has had such s major impact in my life which could have been avoided at this time. I'm so glad I noticed though, and found this site. I am hoping when I am older I can avoid prolapse issues if I adapt the ww lifestyle. I cannot thank all of you enough.

louiseds

July 10, 2011 - 12:11am

Hi Lilemma

Yes, seeing all those horrible images on the Web and reading and hearing the horror stories is pretty confronting. Finding Wholewoman and realising tha I might not have to go through with all the surgery was enough to light a candle of hope for me. It has just got better and better for me as the years have gone by.

I used to say "if I ever need surgical repairs I will have them, knowing I have done all I could to avoid it for many years", but now, about six years later, the thought of needing repairs is somewhat ridiculous. None of us knows what cruel surprises life will throw at us in the future. I'll just go with what works for now, and jump other hurdles as I come to them. There's no point in worrying more about something that is looking less and less likely in the future!

We are all so happy for you that you now have a candle of hope, and lots of things you can do to improve the way your body is behaving!

:-)

alemama

July 10, 2011 - 9:45am

but never ever outright. You will hear women say things like: after childbirth your body will never be the same again- or they will say: I can't do jumping jacks since I had the baby- or they will say: I need to lie down my back hurts :) or they will say: I'm having my period and everything just feels so heavy- or they will say: I can't use tampons anymore since I had the baby, they just don't seem to stay in well- or they will say: do you do kegals? They don't seem to work- or they will say: my obgyn said I had a titled uterus- on and on it goes

I too felt like I was the only 25 year old woman to ever have a prolapse. I too thought that the ONLY thing for it was surgery and that thought devastated me for weeks. It was only after getting here and realizing that I was not alone- that there were young women, mothers going through what I was that I started to realize it was just a well kept secret. If you really start listening to people you will find out that many of your good friends probably have slight prolapse.

I often wonder if prolapse is kept secret because women are ashamed or if it's not brought to light because it simply isn't that big of a deal for most women. Because most of the time it isn't- if you can poop and pee and have sex- who cares if you have a few little bulges.

chickaboom

July 11, 2011 - 7:25pm

Bad mirror wrote: The posture places the organs over bone, instead of a hole, and every single breath you take works to pin the organs in place.

Can we say that while a woman with prolapse is in posture, there is no prolapse? I'm sure it would not be the case if it's severe prolapse, but for mild prolapse?

Christine

July 11, 2011 - 8:06pm

Mild prolapse, yes, but severe prolapse, I wish it were that easy. It takes time and concentrated effort to pull a severe prolapse forward, even a little bit. That said, I often tell women, “You can stabilize this immediately” with the recognition that the “hole” is at the back and through this postural work we are pulling the organs toward the front of the body. If you are holding the organs toward the front, how can they fall further out the back?

However, when the organs have fallen through the diastasis in the pelvic floor musculature, it takes more than posture to pull them back inside and into their normal positions. I smiled when our new member Apis said, “I have tried standing in WW posture, but I must be doing it wrong cos it makes no difference to my underneath and makes my back ache.” It takes more than a few attempts standing in the posture to affect change. For some women that could be several weeks and for others a whole year. Exercises like firebreathing on all fours reinforce the dynamics that pull the organs forward.

I know this sounds corny, but my particularly difficult uterine prolapse has made, and continues to make, the WW work possible. It is worse than “garden variety” prolapse and therefore has forced me to discover extreme methods of reversal. At this point, I believe if a woman has her uterus and has not been surgically altered (this gray area is a wild card), any level of prolapse can be successfully addressed for the long term.

chickaboom

July 11, 2011 - 8:26pm

One woman's corny, another woman's treasure. Now how is that for corny. :)

I have another question somewhat related, hoping that the answer will help me in better understanding how things "run" down there.

I read that a garlic clove or 2 (threaded together) inserted into your vagina for a few hours will clear you of a yeast infection. So I tried it. I noticed that while being upright *in WW posture*, working around the house/cleaning/cooking etc, the garlic stayed put. The minute I'd lay down, I'd feel it start making its way out. If I put it in for the night and went to sleep the garlic would be right on the brink of falling out in the morning as soon as I get out of bed. I figured that it makes sense that it stays put while in ww posture because the vagina is closed space (well, not completely if the garlic clove is in there). But what happens when I'm laying on my back or side? Why does it fall out so easily? Are the pelvic organs are pushing against it?

Christine

July 11, 2011 - 8:57pm

Like you, I suspect that at night intraabdominal pressure is working on an unlocked (counternutated) pelvis and vaginal space. When you are up and about and your torso is weight-loaded in WW posture, the pelvis rocks forward and clamps the vaginal walls shut.

louiseds

July 11, 2011 - 10:49pm

I inserted a finger in my vagina while lying on my front and on my back. In both cases the vagina goes slightly back, then bends forward, over the pubic bones. Perhaps this is because on my tummy the floor and my fat tummy pushes my pelvic organs towards my sacrum and possibly jams them under my sacrum. When I am on my back gravity is pulling my pelvic organs backwards towards my sacrum. The lumbar curve straightens out in both positions and the pelvis tilts back. That's for sure!

I contacted Dr John DeLancey several weeks ago about the shape of the vagina and how it changes with the woman's position, but have not had a reply. Perhaps he doesn't know? Perhaps he is still thinking about it? With all their fancy imaging equipment and expertise, why don't they know this basic anatomical information????

Louise