Premarin?

Hi Reborn at last

From your post I pick up that you have objections to using Premarin. I share your cautious attitude, and would rather not use it if there was an alternative.

I guess it depends on the reason why it is working. Having prolapsed pelvic organs is not a problem in itself, which hopefully you will find when you learn to use all the Wholewoman techniques and learn to use your body a bit differently. The problem is the unpleasant symptoms and secondary effects of their being in the wrong place, ie the urethral opening touching your knickers, the rubbing in your vulva, the stress incontinence from having the bladder coming down below the point where the pelvic floor can stabilise its position, the incomplete empying of the bowel, and the different pressures that exist in the pelvis, which seems to confuse the neural feedback to and from the brain, etc.

Premarin doesn't fix prolapse. Premarin goes in your vagina and may have effects on other local tissue, perhaps thickening local endopelvic fascia that is thinning with age but it cannot fix the stretching of fascial tissues that comes from pregnancy, and it cannot repair a dodgy episiotomy or bring together your perineal body if it has torn at some time during a birth. It cannot remove scarring from surgical repairs.

The main effect of Premarin is to stimulate the maturing of the vaginal epithelium, which once again produces mucus. I am not sure whether or not it has an effect on vaginal pH. The production of mucus lubricates the vagina so its surfaces once again move freely over each other, rather than 'catching' on each other and making the two surfaces move together, so you can readily reposition your organs without a sticky vagina limiting the movement of your organs.

This is a bit like a very wet t-shirt hanging on the line, where the two halves of the t-shirt cling to each other, and folds in the fabric are not easy to straighten out. Pulling on the stretchy fabric just stretches it, unlike a woven shirt, where if you pull on the fabric the fabric does not stretch, and the folds can be pulled straight.

You will probably find that any good lubricant, or a vaginal moisturiser like Replens (a non-oestrogen stimulator of vaginal epithelial cells), will give you enough movement between the vaginal walls to allow you to reposition your vagina (remember that a wet t-shirt can be straightened out on the line by pouring water through it).

The choice in lubricants comes down to trying different ones. You will want one that is persistent and doesn't go tacky over the day. Many water based lubricants do this. It seems that the water in them gets absorbed by the vaginal tissues and the vagina becomes sticky again. Aloe gel might work. Sylk, made from kiwifruit, might work. I have not tried either of these.

I really like the original Bliss Balm. I am hoarding my last couple of jars. It is not being manufactured at the moment, but eventually re-appear at the Wholewoman Store, because we are always singing its praises. Bliss Balm has a coconut oil and beeswax base, which makes it unsuitable for use with condoms or other latex products, but it is very persistent, ie the effect lasts for a long time. The coconut oil melts at body temperature, so it melts when you apply it, and doesn't need rubbing in.

Go to Christine's Kitchen in the Village and view her red clover balm video, which gives you instructions for making your own balm. The recipe can be adapted for any additives you might want to include. You can also adapt the ratio of oil to wax to suit your preferences. You can also search 'balm recipe' using the Search box top left hand side of this page, and see what other Members do. I do make red clover balm out of lanolin, for use on my hands, because I sometimes get dermatitis, which seems to respond to red clover, and it sticks well, particularly if I am doing a dirty task. I am planning on making a sorbolene based red clover cream for use on my face too, where I have some persistent dry patches.

When you come to see the difference WW posture makes you will realise that how you use your body, and how you can reposition your pelvic floor to diagonal, rather than horizontal, and move your pelvic organs forwards onto solid bone instead of trying to hang them over your vagina, you will see that your posture is the most powerful tool you have for minimising prolapse symptoms.

POP is a problem of body organisation, getting it all arranged so it will stay where you put it. Our bodies were designed to retain our pelvic organs. If we don't use the natural design of our bodies we can expect our organs to keep descending. No amount of oestrogen cream will keep our organs where they belong.

Good luck.

Louise

Well said Louise. Your comment is great. Just want to remark on Replens. It contains no estrogen and worth trying. I found Bed Bath and Beyond stores have the best price for Replens. With their 20% coupon it comes to about 11.00. Walmart also carries the product around the same price. I find the whole woman posture the key for managing prolapse and a good lubricant helps.

I am very new to this site and the information is very good. It makes sense.

Hi NFP, and welcome. Have you used Replens yourself? I am wondering if it would be effective enough to use before my next PAP smear. I have the Australian Replens agent's email address. I will contact them and find out what they say.
I did use it briefly, but the Australian product comes with a very wasteful applicator and I could never remember which day I had used it, so it was quite expensive.

I was just trying it really, because we discussed it quite extensively at the time, and I wanted to know what I was talking about. I posted a couple of links to abstracts from good-looking research about the efficacy of Replens as an oestrogen cream substitute, and I would use it regularly if I felt the need for it, on the basis of what I read.

I think it will only be for a couple of weeks before the smear, so it is no big deal either way.

Louise

Hi RebornAtLast (and others with dry vagina)

How did you go with the red clover balm. I am curious.

I was up on the roof this morning putting up heavy steel shutters and came down the ladder, ready for a shower after my exertion, with an awful cystocele bulge. I did some firebreathing which improved it a bit, then showered and washed my hair. As usual my cystocele was symptomatic when I was rinsing the shampoo off my (long) hair, and the cystocele still felt awful when I got out of the shower. I applied some Bliss Balm (coconut oil and beeswax based) up high in my vagina and in my vulva and dressed. Fifteen minutes of WW posture and it has gone away again. Even after all this time it was an anxious half hour, but as usual, the body came up again as trustworthy.

I just wanted to post this as a reassuring story for women who have a sticky vagina. All it needed was a little bit of slippery!