why we discover postpartum prolapse when we do

...that I will respond to just as soon as I can, Alemama.

Hugs!!

Christine

Hi Alemama, I am so pleased you posted about this cultural custom. I heard about it while living in Asia, some time ago. I and friends went weekly for reflexology to 3 Chinese men. They indicated (by various means haha)that we women's veins and other problems showed our Western culture- of no care for the new mother.Their English was limited and we had no Mandarin.I did hear the word Uterus though.They indicated that we went outside too soon doing chores etc when we should have been resting .
I remember feeling so proud that I was out grocery shopping day 3 after birth!!! How sad that seems now , to me :-( Boy have my views changed!
My daughter has married into similar Chinese culture base and expecting her first baby in approx 6 weeks. Her mother in law has told her that she will be around more doing things for her (she works fulltime) as that is their custom,although she knows it is not Western one.
I am around at home most of the time so she will have 2 mums helping.
I have sent my daughter the link, she says Cheng du is where her sister in law stayed for a few months -about year and half ago.

This is an interesting topic and I look forward to reading Christine's input.

I've lived in Saudi for the past few years and have given birth here. Though I don't know many Saudis all that well I have visited a few postpartum neighbors and they all seem to have similar pp traditions. They have lying in periods forty days long - usually at their mom's house - where they do just that: lie in. in fact when I go for the routine 'obligatory' pp visit, the new mom(even if it's her seventh baby) is often reclining on an ottoman of sorts, believing herself to be too delicate at that point to even sit up. They have a lot of traditional warm herbal drinks and foods that are made especially for them during this forty day  period. I am always interested in these foods and drinks but language differences makes it difficult to always know what they are. I do know they drink a ton of fenugreek, nettle, and barley I think. When I had visitors during my own postpartum, they were aghast at the way I was dressed (cotton house dress, no belly bind) and that I was walking around serving them tea while trying to hush a two year old and breastfeed the newborn meanwhile. One older neighbor pulled me aside and advised me to sit down and be frail, lest someone gives me the 'evil eye' (envy) for being so active so soon. Re. prolapse: I have heard uterus prolapse mentioned a few times and many of them have traditional womb massages done during the early pp days to avoid just that. I don't
know how effective these massages are. I am very curious about the prolapse epidemic and Saudi, where modern lifestyle has left its mark just as clearly as elsewhere. It used to be that women here had a LOT of kids -half a dozen at least. But these days, not so much. Still, Im sure there are prolapses, especially with modern obstetrics and total misconceptions about episiotomies and c sections etc.  I guess one thing that Saudi women might have going for them is that they take their daily prayers very seriously  and as such you'll often see a nine month preggo at the mall or park, in some corner with a mat or sheet out in front of her huffing and trying to breathe as she does poses similar to downward dog and hands and knees.
But amy benefit from that end is probably undone after birth, as lying around for forty days is not the best thing for prolapse. I'm just wondering what is worse: that, or running around --SANS ww posture-- simply because you have to,starting from a few hours after birth? My expat friends and I would scoff at the 'weakness' of the Saudi women and admire our own (forced) energy and activity so soon after birth... now I know it is neither that nor this but a middle way in between.

I think these women know that unless they act frail they *will* be back at work. These women, from what I understand, work together very well, so are able to arrange this, and still get the work done that is needed to be done. They don't have the same need as we do for a new mother to be able to keep the show running if her partner doesn't get paternity leave, or if she doesn't have a supportive group of stay at home women on the block.

The concept of the Evil Eye can be put to good use to give women permission to be 'frail'. (Wink, wink, nod, nod!) This is women'c culture looking after the needs of women.

Just because a tradition is old does not necessarily mean it is good. However, I would imagine that lying down a lot would allow soft tissue to revert a lot better than being up and working in non-WW posture.

This first hand account by Chickaboom is really interesting. Thanks Chick.

Louise

Alemama, I agree that the crazy things we western women do way too soon after birthing is part of the problem, especially after the first couple of weeks, when community support it dropping off a bit, and the mess is building up.

However, I have another parallel theory. During the first few weeks there is still a lot of extra bulk in the pelvic region, extra soft tissue, and a reverting uterus, plus some extra fat and fluid. The pelvic ligaments are also still a bit lax.

I think that second month pp is when the proper (non-fluid) weight loss begins, and suddenly there is a lot of tissue and organs sloshing around in an increasingly more roomy space. Nature's pessary is literally getting smaller, but the ligamentous supports of the uterus are still quite stretched out. So I draw a parallel between the 4 week pp mother and a woman who has lost a lot of weight quickly through diet and exercise. We know that losing a lot of weight quickly can precipitate or worsen POP, so what is the difference?

Add the sloshy pelvic region to the extra shopping and housework, and what do you get?

Your comments?

Louise

Have been meaning to return to this forum to relate my experience dealing with a prolaspe that has worsened over the years. I was considering a pessary and asking a lot of questions about surgery when I realized that a good spandex panty with good support in the crotch, allowed me to function again. Walk more, exercise ,even dance. I can't believe that neither my obgyn or specialist suggested this. The theory is simple firm external pressure there means the vaginal wall pressed upon by bladder and uterus can push out no further.

Maybe corsetieres know more than we give them credit for. Why else would a crotch need spandex support????

After all, support is their business, isn't it? If the garment comes with a bit of lace and decorative stitching, and in pretty colours, from a lingerie shop, it is bound to be more useful to a woman who doesn't have to 'explain' the garment to those who see her dressing, or underessing, or those who observe her washing hanging on the line. A more industrial-looking support garment from a medical supplies shop doesn't have quite the same aesthetic or feminine shopping appeal, does it?

Louise