Is this normal?

Please do not feel discouraged by your new symptoms. I never post, but I had to respond to your post because it could have been me typing. I am now 20 months post partum and at around 3-5 months post partum I started noticing the exact same things as you. Like my vagina was always wide open especially when taking a step sideways. This did go away and now I am always nicely closed. It did take time though, I think it was only around 1 year post partum when I really started to cut down breastfeeding to only twice a day. The stinging, I also experienced this, it is most likely your nerves regenerating and starting to fire again. They are likely a little over sensitive right now, it should calm down. It is similar to when women get breast reductions or lumpectomy"s (I had a lumpectomy) and a couple months after surgery you will experience often the same stinging or tingling feeling. It will go away! Mine did, both in breast and vagina.
Please do not overwhelm yourself with trying to do to much to heal, the best healing for postpartum prolapse is simply time!!! Time will do a lot, trust in your body. Just try very hard not to do anything to worsen it, like lifting heavy boxes.
I will be honest with you, I did not start seeing significant improvements until I was 16 months post partum (4 months ago) when I entirely stopped breastfeeing and I really did not see any improvement until I was 6 months post partum. I also did EVERYTHING to try to help myself, I saw physio, changed my posture, changed my eating habits, hab scar message on my internal vaginal scars, had mayan abdominal messages, used a muscle stim machine.......etc etc etc. Honestly, though, I think time and keeping my core strong was the best treatment. Be patient, it will improve, both physically and emotionally. It will not go away, but it will get to the point where you never check it (or very rarely) and you rarely feel it. I never imagined I would get to that point, but here I am at 20 months post partum and VERY HAPPY and confident in myself again.
Hope this helps!!!

Hi Ozmama,

I want to reassure you as well that your symptoms will certainly improve in time. Your pelvic interior is moving into its mature state, which is soft, rounded, closed, and protective of your urethral sphincter mechanism.

It is testosterone that primarily feeds the tissues of the vulva - the common site of burning and stinging. You have this in plentiful supply from the androgens secreted by both your ovaries and adrenals. However, stress can change hormonal balance by increasing your stress hormones and decreasing androgens. Please don’t make the common mistake of attributing symptoms to breast feeding.

Whether or not you embark on a program of “core strengthening” it is important to understand that the principles of such exercise have not been substantiated by scientific study. Most of the research has been conducted on lower back pain, none of which has found a correlation between a strong “core” and reduction of pain. The same is true of all solid studies trying to link “core strength” with a strong pelvic “floor”. Obesity is another area where studies cannot find a correlation between lack of “core strength” and back pain. The same for inguinal hernia repair, which affects the function of the transverse abdominis muscle, yet does not lead to chronic back pain.

An understanding of the anatomy of postpartum prolapse is most important at this time. The involution taking place is largely being conducted by the round ligaments on either side of your lower belly. These have expanded tremendously and are responsible for contracting back down and pulling your uterus/bladder forward with them. You can help this process by simply sitting in WW posture - letting your belly come forward over your thighs - and breathing deeply. Leave the other exercise for a few more weeks, when it actually feels good instead of stressful.

Anytime you are sitting or standing in WW posture, your vaginal walls are clamped shut. We only have vaginal air when we are inverted or pulling in the belly and tucking the pelvis under. This is an essential concept for you to understand. The natural, protective shape of your spine is what will reduce your symptoms and you only have to sit, stand and walk in this shape as much of the time as you can comfortably tolerate - it becomes effortless in time.

Now you can understand that even the slightest effort to move out of this natural shape takes us that much away from natural pelvic anatomy, which is soft, rounded, closed, and protective of the urethral sphincter mechanism.

The female pelvic organ support system is a highly adapted design that holds up under extreme conditions. Someone like Twitch may have a strong core, but I am willing to bet that her breathing mechanism is not able to fully antevert her uterus. She may have a flat mummy-tummy, but at a deeper level she is setting herself up for stress urinary incontinence with every breath she takes. This is nothing against Twitch, but simply the anatomy of pelvic organ support.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Hi Ozmama

I really think this open vagina sensation you are feeling is to do with breastfeeding.

I did some research thought the Australian Breastfeeding Association a couple of years ago, to find out if there was any evidence of the effect of weaning on POP. The answer was that, while there is anecdotal evidence of the whole vaginal area feeling better after weaning there is no clinical evidence at all that weaning makes any difference to POP itself.

Sure, breastfeeding makes your vagina feel dry and sticky, because the prolactin that your body is producing with lactation keeps your oestrogen levels low, which makes your vagina feel weird, and perhaps behave differently. All bodies are different. Your vagina may not return to feeling normal until you wean, even though your menstrual cycle may re-establish itself.

I suggest you try a vaginal lubricant or moisturiser like Replens on a day to day basis, and see if this changes the way your vaginal walls behaves, and what you feel like. The vaginal wind may just be because the walls are clinging to each other and not moving over each other smoothly, so you can feel an exaggerated sensation all the time.

Please don't wean your baby because of this. Breastmilk is still the best food exclusively for your baby for a few months yet. However, if you really want to wean, for some other reason that you haven't mentioned, then be honest with yourself about it, and examine why you want to wean.

You are at the worst stage POP-wise, with the busy-ness of your life cranking up and your beautiful baby getting heavier. If you are doing all the right things you may still be where you are for quite a few weeks yet. Just have faith in your body. Listen to what your body is telling you. Pushing your lifestyle faster than your postpartum body wants to go, and exerting yourself harder is not going to be of long term benefit. Hang in there. It will get better.

Louise

Not right now. That's the short answer. And that's ok. For right now, try to be happy with keeping things at baseline. You are early postpartum, you have serious life stress (moving!!!? with a new baby, I'd go over the edge!), and you have all been sick- with you doing all the nursing care and big time sleep deficit. Whew! I hope you are taking your vitamin C :)
But listen, don't worry. Your prolapse can wait. When things calm down a bit and you have time and energy, you can take care of YOU for a while. You will see improvement. You will have 1 good day in a week, then 2, then 3 and then all of the sudden, you will realize thing are just so much better. It takes time, good food, good rest, and self care.
Re vaginal wind: Think of your vagina like this; it's a hallway. Now, when there is no prolapse the walls of the hallway touch each other and keep all the air out- this is the way the vagina wants to be- clamped shut. with prolapse, there is a door or two open at the front of the hallway- the doors block the air from coming in. When you invert and lift a leg- the doors slam shut (the organs sliding into their rightful places) and the air wooshes in-in a vacuum attempt to get the walls to clamp together . When you stand back up, it wooshes back out. Eventually you will be able to harness and control this vacuum to your benefit.
make any sense?

Alemama is there anything to be done about the wind whooshing into the hallway during sex?

Glad that you survived your move.....you are one step closer to getting yourself back to a good place with all of this. I was struck by your comment on the bent knees, because I too am having some success with that. Example, I will stand in plie, using excellent WW posture, while drying my hair in the morning. I will feel a definite "lift" after that. I do not have the time to do the workouts on a regular basis, but I am working to change that. When I do, I'm expecting great things! Thanks for keeping us posted and keep it up.

I hear you ozmama, I am very new to this and I also wonder how long it takes for your bladder to go back up to were it belongs? or does it? I could live with the condition the way it is now, its a small balloon extending into my vagina but I fear it will fall further, after hearing all the horror stories. I was just recently diagnosed with prolapse bladder maybe 6 months ago, and I received the book & tapes 4 months ago, I have been doing the posture, and the firebreathing, I can't sit on my feet but I do try to sit up straight. I guess I'm not very good at knowing my body because I don't understand a lot of what you guys are talking about. I haven't heard anyone say that there organs go back into place? Does that happen? and if so how long does it take. Maybe I am doing the excersises wrong, like the firebreathing, because I don't really feel anything moving. I only sometime like ozmama feel my vagina opening further sometimes, and sometimes I feel like I don't have any organs hanging, infact most of the time I can't tell until I feel it with my fingers like when I'm showering and cleaning myself. I guess I'm just wondering what to expect, and a time frame for it, and how dedicated do I have to be about the exercises. I'm pretty sure I do the posture right, but thats about it.

Oh, yes! I have my arms over my head when drying my (long) hair. I never thought of that!

Hi Hopeful

My organs have definitely gone back where they belong, and they do stay there most of the time. If they don't, they are not out of position for very long before I can get them back there again. I started to feel this happening while I was in posture in the first few days, but they all slid back again when I forgot my posture, so it was conscious effort at first. After a few months I was starting to feel more confident about it but still knew I had surgical repairs as a backstop for later. Now, seven years down the track, I laugh at the idea of needing surgical repairs in the future. At my last PAP smear my doctor commented that I only had slight cystocele, and my cervix was very deep, which it has not always been! Now, my posture is intuitive, and to be out of posture feels uncomfortable and risky.

If you look at the pelvis upwards from a toilet duck's point of view, there is a v shape. Coming back from the back of the pubic symphysis (where the two halves of the pelvis meet under your pubic hair) at a variable angle to each other, approximately 90 degrees in women, less in men, are the ischio-pubic rami, the rails at the bottom of the pelvis. These are basically horizontal in women, but lean backwards and down more in men. This is because of their more massive musculature, but that is another story.

We sit on these ischio-pubic rami and pubic symphysis and our thigh bones. The back ends of the pubic rami, the back extremities of which are tied together by the perineum, making a nice stable triangle.

This v-shape is normally illustrated on a picture of a woman's pelvis from the front, as an inverted v, sloping down, apart and backwards from the pubic symphysis. However, in standing or sitting Wholewoman posture they are basically horizontal. In WW posture the bladder is forwards, so it is on the pubic symphysis and hanging over the back on the v. At the narrow end of that apex of the triangle the ischiopubic rami are closer together so there is no room for the bladder to fall through.

If you stand or sit like the normal anatomical drawing shows your bladder is hanging back further, where the ischiopubic rami are further apart, and no part of the bladder rests on the pubic symphysis. It is hanging over an abyss, only held up by the thin pelvic floor. The bladder only falls *down* when it falls off its shelf. It actually moves back before it falls down. Just stay in WW posture and it won't roll back.

BTW, I do very little in the way of regular WW exercise workouts, but don't tell Christine. I really should do more. I find that controlling my everyday movement has done all this for me, along with diet control, changes of clothing and the way I use seating.

You mention not being able to sit on your feet. You could try this type little meditation stool, which bears the weight of your butt and keeps it off your heels and ankles. http://www.simplywoodcrafts.com/ . You will find many different models with different features.

Louise

Louise

What, pray tell is a toilet duck? Sounds like a cute little cheerful bathroom pet, or what happens when I bathe my 3 year old and forget to lower the potty lid -- a toss of the rubber duckie and voila! Toilet duck! :-)

LOL! Oh, it might be one of those Australian things. They are gadgets that hang on the side of the bowl, and are filled with a block of blue dissolving stuff that turns your water blue when you flush, and hides and dissolves the stains and makes a nice smell. I never use them -don't know if they work, but they are legendary pieces of bathroom kitch in Australia for people who really *care* about their toilets.

I think the earlier models floated around (like a duck) in the cistern, but the water really ended up deep royal blue if you didn't flush for a while, and it didn't lasts for very long. I just prefer my toilet water clear so I can see when the bowl needs a clean under the water line.

I was really just trying to come up with a way of describing the view from below.

EDIT: No, I got it wrong. You can see how little I take in from ads. ;-) Try this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXRcIuwKQq4
;-)

sorry to be mysterious- didn't mean to- I was just thinking of nauli and firebreathing.

positioning- woman on top is good for avoiding. From behind is no good for avoiding :)

Louise, I love the meditation stools on your link. I myself have been trying to use this position comfortably (sitting on my feet). I look at how easily Christine does it, and I say to myself, I'm about her size, how does she make it look so comfy? Answer: Keep working on it.

To Louise,
Thank you for you very helpful reply, the best news I received is that it can reposition itself if you do the posture, sitting, and I'll assume fire breathing although you didn't mention that? I will assume that I am not doing any of them right, since its been 4 months and I dont feel any change. So your saying that just being in the posture and sitting correctly did it for you? I read the whole book most of which I didn't understand but I thought I got the posture correct, but I guess I am not thinking about it every minute of every day so I could be doing it wrong. I am just sooooooo use to sucking my stomach in for the past 20 or so years that its hard to walk with your belly out and arms back. As for the sitting I spend 8 hours or more in a office chair but I do sit straight up, most of the time, I dont think I could cross my legs and get any work done, that to me is very uncomfortable, I can do one leg crossed but not both. I am going to try that site you told me about and I'm going to re read the book and listen to the tape again, I thank you again , you have given me hope. I definately do NOT want surgery.

HI Hopeful

I am glad you are going to read the book again. It is quite heavy going in parts, but it is important to *understand* the principles behind it.

Once you understand the principles you can apply them to any activity or position. Without understanding you will always be asking others for advice and will never be able to manage it yourself.

However, don't think it is an easy way. It is quite hard work, and you do need to be aware of how you move all the time, though it does become intuitive after a while, and it becomes physically easier too. To do WW posture twice a day is quite pointless.

Yes, just posture, but posture sitting, standing, lifting, carrying, running, climbing, dancing, fishing, gardening, shopping, driving, every movement and activity. I have also paid careful attention to my diet, clothing and the way I use seating. I don't say I don't do any exercise. I do bellydance regularly.

If your belly is out, try raising your chest. This will also lift and support your belly. I don't have really large breasts but I do have plenty of fat on my belly. My breasts still stick out further at the front than my belly does (when I am wearing a bra)! I can feel that under the fat my abdominal muscles are quite firm, not floppy at all. I think this is because I am using them all the time in every day movement, so I don't need to keep them tense.

Arms back? I am not sure what you mean by this. In relaxed stance my upper arms hang down pretty straight, and my forearms hang at a bit of an angle forwards, with my hands about 30mm in front of my thighs, my palms slightly angled to the side. Everyone's body has different proportions. Yours may be a bit different.

If your arms are being held back you might be tensing your shoulders and pinching your shoulder blades together. Just let your shoulders, not your chest, drop forwards a little to get rid of shoulder tension. Your back should be pretty flat above your bra strap. It could be that you need to work on your upper body strength and flexibility so you can use your upper body more easily to balance the forward lumbar curve by moving your upper body back. Improving the flexibility of my upper back was critical for me. This is where I think the bellydance comes in, with torso isolations and a lot of arm work with veils.

Louise