another pessary question

Submitted by Daphne on October 26, 2011 - 9:27am
Body: 

Dear Christine,
Some time ago I wrote you a letter that you replied to, Thank you.
I now have another question. I saw a new to me specialist about my prolapse's and he tried several pessaries finally finishing with trying a, what I think he called, an Incontinence cup. I came home with it in and now find that I keep leaking. He did think I may not be a candidate that pessaries would help, he did say to go back and he would take it out again which I think I will have to do as I am leaking quite a lot when I walk about. He did say about closing the Vagina as an option but I think I read somewhere in one of your reports that wasn't a good way to go, other options offered were the usual Hysterectomy. I did say I really didn't want to go that root. He said my Rectoseal was a stage 3 he didn't give me a number for what I think is the uterus that comes to the Vaginal opening normally. I am 76 and don't normally leak after having an Incontinence operation in 1999, Birch Op. Could you give me some advise please. I have read your first book and found that I agree on not wanting operations for this problem but I can't see an alternative for me. It is all getting me down. Without the pessary I can't do much because I am always having to go and lie down to push everything back in place and with it I leak all the time. I seem to have no life either way.
Daphne.

Christine

October 26, 2011 - 10:05am

Hi Daphne,

Yes, post-Burch it is most likely your cervix at the vaginal opening. A stage 3 rectocele would actually help keep your uterus forward! You are right that the vaginal closure operation is not without risk and failure.

Tell us how you are doing with WW posture and exercise?

Christine

Daphne

October 26, 2011 - 12:51pm

Hi Christine, Thank you for your quick reply. I saw you on the Forum at the same time as myself and was hoping you would see it as I am going to the Specialist tomorrow to have him take it out again and I was wondering what to say if he asked me about operations again.
Actually, I have been doing some of your exercises for years but forgot the Yoga name for them but have also added some from your first book. The Woman's posture I try to remember when I am standing, mostly I forget when I am sitting. So far I haven't had any noticeable difference but I keep hoping. I guess what I should have asked you is would you still keeping trying the exercises rather than go for an operation? I wonder how to manage my life with this always coming out of my body which makes it hard, should say impossible to sit and of course I can't think that to put pressure on an organ outside the body must have it's own problems. I am just beside myself with fear and worry and wondering what to do.
Daphne.

Christine

October 26, 2011 - 2:46pm

First of all, Daphne, it is important to reiterate that you are not working with your natural anatomy. The Burch procedure is a non-sensical operation that should never be performed on women. It was originally created in 1949 for men who were grossly incontinent of urine after surgery for prostate cancer.

I believe you would be far better off if you could bring your cervix forward enough with WW techniques so it is inside the labia at all times. Understand that you will very likely be living with one sort of bulge or another after hysterectomy. It is impossible to know which would be preferable - what you have now or what you would likely incur post-hyst.

That said, I think in an older, relatively inactive woman, a hysterectomy might be preferable to an intractable, surgically induced uterine prolapse.

It is a dilemma that I’m sure you have been struggling with for quite some time. If you believe you’ve taken Whole Woman techniques as far as you can, then it is probably time to call the surgeon. The pity is that women have to make these decisions at all.

Wishing you well,

Christine

Daphne

October 31, 2011 - 12:07pm

Hi Christine,
Thank you again for your information, you are always helpful.
I had my pessary out last Thursday and what a relief it was when it was gone. The Dr. now tells me that I have a stage 4 rectoseal because it comes outside my body. is it at all possible to correct this by your whole Woman methods?
Daphne

Christine

November 1, 2011 - 5:10pm

That is interesting, Daphne. I think it is very possible to stabilize your rectocele and possibly reduce some of your symptoms over time. Many others with rectocele have had success with WW techniques. However, the Burch procedure creates anatomical changes that we have talked about before. There is no surgical cure for rectocele. The bulge may disappear for awhile, but it often bursts through again - often very low in the perineum.

Salt

November 3, 2011 - 9:47am

Dear Daphne,
I just read this thread and realised what you are going through.
if you haven't decided 100% to do surgery yet, I wonder if there is any way that you could sit in the WW posture for a period of time to see what improvements may happen?

in my short experience, sitting without being in the WW posture will worsen my prolapse in less than one day! which makes me wonder if you may find much better results if you include sitting in the posture as well as standing and firebreathing etc.

I understand that it can be hard to remember to sit that way... and wonder if Christine's method of using her symptoms themselves as reminders may work for you.

I'm not sure if part of the reason for not sitting in WW posture is because it's uncomfortable. if so, I'd like to share that when I began sitting that way, I found it really kind of torturous (painful, exhausting etc)... BUT... I was so happy at how quickly my body began to get stronger and I now, a few months later, sit in the posture all day long. something I thought would never happen.
I do still feel tired at times but almost never sore.

What I did when I began the posture was to never sit in anything other than the posture. this meant that I ended up standing or lying down a lot more often until I built strength in the sitting posture.

I share all of this in case some tidbit may be useful or encouraging for you.
my heart goes out to you with what you are dealing with and I'm so glad you are here on the forum where there is support.

thinking of you
Salt

Surviving60

November 3, 2011 - 10:43am

Must wholeheartedly agree with Salt about the importance of sitting in posture. I've had terrible posture all my life (no doubt part of why I have prolapse now). Even after really "getting with the program" in regards to standing in WW posture, I still frequently catch myself sitting with a totally collapsed spine. I guess it's because I have relief from symptoms when sitting, no matter how bad my posture is at the time. I'm trying to stop being so careless. It does make a difference.

louiseds

November 4, 2011 - 4:58am

Hi Surviving, You are right. You just have to make yourself do it, because nobody else can. ;-) It might be a hard slog for you, but I am sure you will reap the rewards for your efforts. Being mindful of all your movements really is a very important part of this work.

Mind you I can hear quite a bit of self-judgement in your post! No need for that. Just do the best you can. I am sure that every bit you do will make a difference. The more you can do, the quicker you will get used to it, and have everybody looking at Queen Surviving60 walking along the street.

Louise :-)

Daphne

November 16, 2011 - 12:31pm

Dear Salt,
I have just read your Nov 3 reply to me for which I thank you. I do try to remember to sit in the proper position but it is so much more relaxing to just lay back in my comfortable chair at night when watching TV. I must make a real effort though as I really don't want an operation as I keep thinking of all that I have read on this Forum and Christine's book about surgery causing further Prolapses.
I did get some of that Slippery Elm from the store in London, the powder form. Mike said to make it like a tea and then strain it. The strained particles seem to develope a gell around them which I would have thought would be the part you would need, it seems funny to have to throw that away and just drink the tea. I haven't had too much success with it but perhaps I should try taking it every day.
My Husband read on the Internet of a product called TRIPHALA which is for constipation problems. I called one of the Health shops in Chatham and she said she could get it, she also said that Pro-biotics would also help with constipation so I may try that first as I know they are something our bodies have anyway.
I do appreciate your helpful letters, I just wish I could help you with your fibroid problem but I'm afraid I have no experience there.
My life seems to have turned me into a driver for my husband and not being able to walk anywhere myself because of the bulge coming right outside my body. Like one other lady said, after having a bowel movement it seems to be bigger and then keeps dropping down every time I am in a standing position and coming further outside.
If you have any further tips I would love to hear them.
Take care, Daphne.

Salt

November 17, 2011 - 12:41pm

darn! that is frustrating about the slippery elm.
when I asked him if they had 'powder' he said yes. but what you describe is not powder at all! maybe he would give you your money back.
if you have an electric coffee or herb grinder, you could grind the loose bark into powder.

I know aht you mean about it being more comfortable to sit back.
I had to make a rule with myself:

either sit right (in WW posture), stand right or go lie down.
I do not let myself sit wrong for even a few minutes. it's not worth it!
like you, I don't want to ever have to get surgery which can lead to so much worse problems.
is there any way you could follow a rule like that for a few months to see if it could help?

do you spend time every day in the knees and elbows position?
that is an excellent thing to do to help the uterus come back in and up. you may be able to actually get in that position, reach back and push your uterus gently in as far as it will go, and then stay there for a bit - jiggling a bit to see if you can move it farther forward.

my heart goes out to you with what you are going through and I hope very much that you can get some relief soon.

sending caring thoughts your way
Salt

p.s. please don't feel like you need to try and help me! my situation is very different than yours and I'm getting good help here :-)

Mishek

November 17, 2011 - 6:47pm

Dear Daphne, i used to slouch on the settee all my life as most people do when watching tv but haven't done that since discovering pop. As much as i would love to, i dare not because of the unpleasant consequences that will surely follow, as Salt said it's not worth it and it would only take me back to that time of dreadful suffering which i have now left behind. There is no going back to slouching for me as tempting as it may be i cannot give in to temptation. I have a couch/settee long enough to stretch my legs out for watching tv. I either sit right up or lay right down on my side - it's the only way... a little more inconvenient perhaps as i have to wait about an hour for my evening meal to go down before i can lie down and relax to watch a show. It was just a few months ago when walking was so uncomfortable and gradually i got better. I am having a small set back right now but i should be ok soon if i follow the WW rules.

I do feel for you Daphne and sincerley hope that you can find a way to be more comfortable very soon. Sending you caring thoughts. Mishek.

Surviving60

November 18, 2011 - 10:02am

Mishek, this is so true and we need all the reminders we can get. I am one of the fortunate ones who gets fairly good symptom relief in any sitting position, even a slouchy one with a totally collapsed spine. This makes me very lazy at times (except on the toilet of course). Thanks for the reminder. - Surviving