question on rectocele

You can feel fullness in different places, but I have only experienced the rectocele in one place.

Anyone else got anything to say to the contrary?

Hi Ivonrush,
What an interesting wuestion. I'm afraid I don't know the answer. I think I have cystocele and uterine prolapse rahter than rectocele, so do not have personal experience of this and in my little search just now, could not find any info re. this. However experientally I do feel different 'down there'. Sometimes I feel a bulging at the front and sometimes I don't, so it does feel like my condition varies, although I'm not sure in what way exactly.

We live in interesting times, where we are finding out some of these as we go. I do think we need to trust in our own experience - if you can feel the rectocele in different places at different times - then that is your experience! Thank you for sharing that with us.

I'me really curious whether anyone else has a similar experience or any thoughts related to this.

Best wishes, wholewomanuk

Hi Terpsichore,

I have decided to write an article, Understanding Enterocele for the Village Post. Look for it in Christine's Column December 1st.

What were you doing before (when things improved) that you aren't doing now?

Welcome to Whole Woman!

Christine

Terpsichore...can you explain that body position? Thanks! :)

Hello Terpsichore
It's fascinating to read how other people deal with this business.
So far nobody has mentioned bidets which I think is a shame as they are so comforting.
The key thing is this relaxation; I use hand hot water and epsom salts and just sit there and wallow for a bit. Often this encourages the last bits of waste out; you do have to poop-scoop but it's worth it and were all used to clearing up after our doggie friends so no problem.
I've been a bit shy about publishing this fact but hey...if it helps other people what does it matter.
I should hate to be without a bidet...another marvellous invention probably by the French.
Onwards and upwards,
Amel

Hi Amel

Thankyou for raising this topic. I never could figure out bidets. Obviously you are quite a creative person, and I am glad that you are not keeping these positive ideas to yourself.

Hey, we are all women with POP. TMI? I don't think so. There is no such thing as TMI when you are trying to figurre out ways of getting your bowels to work!

Thankyou.

Louise

You have no idea how reassuring this all is. When my rectocele and 'incomplete evacuation' became profoundly obvious a year ago - I worked out myself what I now realise is splinting. Funny how we instinctively try to solve things ... after having splinted for a year I try to say to myself that this is the way everyone does it. Because at first I would cry after every toilet experience, I was so humiliated - and then I thought - well the usual act of pooing and weeing is quite strange when you think about it - just pretend this is the way it's meant to be and then it won't feel so embarrassing. It kind of worked, I talked to myself lovingly - positive affirmations about how clever my body was, how connected I was to myself etc - anything to turn it into a positive. I have the wipes next to the toilet, which really help, because in the first few months my poor bum was so sore because I was emphatic about it being perfectly clean and as we know that's darn hard. I work from home and study from home so I am very lucky, so grateful I have the luxury of my own toilet. When I am out or travelling I tend to put off going if I can because I can't bear the thought of getting 'stuck' in public - not a good thing to do but I have been in the position of panicking because I was in a mess while out. It is so demoralising. I like the idea of the sitz bath with epsom salts and also the stool to bring the feet up ... so will look into that. Thank you so much x

Thank God for you all, and Christine, I am really looking forward to your wisdom on enteroceles... I had been thinking 'this is me' - along with all the other celes I've got - and so I looked it up on Google and was nearly sick looking at surgery pics. Big mistake :-O

I am working hard to describe it just right, and I hope you will all work hard to understand what I write, for the conceptual shift we are making is so very important. For now, hold that footstool! ;)

Hi Octaviel

I don't think it was a big mistake at all. These surgeries are very major. They are changing the way we are made. They interfere with so much of our internal anatomy and make it do things it is not meant to do. To save lives? Of course, but to do a temporary repair that will need re-doing, for the sake of relieving discomfort? I don't think so.

Anyone contemplating these surgeries needs to know exactly how destructive they are. Otherwise women are wandering around signing consent documents with their heads in the sand, which is pure folly. Not watching these videos saves you from seeing the yukky bits, but they still happen if you go ahead with surgery. Crossing your fingers and hoping for the best simply doesn't work .

I do hope we can help you with this latest setback.

I don't like seeing erectile dysfunction ads on TV. I don't really want to see ads for products that will 'fix' prolapse either, but I do look forward to the day when we can speak openly about pelvic organ prolapse, and defuse the taboo surrounding it.

Taboos, stigma, nameing and blaming have been a part of human belief systems since the Garden of Eden. It's time we got over it, and got real!

Womankind needs to know what we know. We may never be comfortable talking to men and children but girls and young and old women need to know about it. I talk about it quite a bit in conversation, and sometimes get understandably negative comments, but I rarely have a conversation where the person doesn't mention at least one woman in her life who has had POP. It affects women deeply. It affects marriages. It affects workplace relations. It has to be spoken about! We are the only ones who can do this. Let's do it.

End of rant.

Louise

;-)

Louise

These sorts of poses have been suggested for prolapse for several decades. Both Iyengars (B.K.S. and Geeta) addressed prolapse back in the eighties/nineties and it was always with these sorts of exercises i.e. lying on your back with legs up a wall or over a bolster. They never understood female anatomy nor the dynamics of prolapse. Work with myself and other women has shown such exercises to be worthless for moving the organs forward. I will not argue with your success, but must state that from a WW point of view, such an exercise is barking up the wrong tree.

It is remarkable that yoga always had some answers for female prolapse in terms of abdominal lifts. The problem is, they were never applied to women.

I do short intervals of firebreathing (and most recently, WW Breath of Fire) alternated with nauli. Do you incorporate nauli as well? This is the big mover.

Christine

Not to belabor the point - but getting these anatomical details straightened out is important so everyone can begin to visualize her own anatomy correctly. How does lying on your back with legs up a wall allow the intestine to fall out of the cul-de-sac? It is well known by anatomists that the cul-de-sac is the most dependent part of the intestinal cavity when the subject is in the supine position. In this position the back of the cavity fills with peritoneal fluid, hence the reason dialysis is performed in this area. From my perspective, this is allowing the intestine to fall *into* the cul-de-sac.

Hi Terpsichore,

I appreciate your clarifications. What makes WW unique is that we are a group of women who have sifted through the true anatomy of the female body and come to agreement on what works and what doesn’t to move the organs forward and into their natural positions. Development of our knowledge base has taken years and much research, discussion and experimentation. This is why WW isn’t your average support forum. We love experimentation and this is how we’ve grown our knowledge base. However, sweeping generalizations and anatomical statements-of-fact will always be verified.

Legs up the wall is a comfortable position and may play some minor and temporary role in helping the rectum recede out of the vaginal space, akin to other positions of passive inversion. We have discussed this and other such positions on numerous occasions and have received feedback that, although it feels good, is not particularly helpful for the long term.

When I sit up into WW posture I am sitting on my flat pubic bones, which are oriented front to back underneath my torso. With my pelvis in this position, my ischial tuberosities are posterior to the head of my femurs and above my pubic bones. My anus is well above and out of the way of both intraabdominal and sitting pressures. When I begin to flatten my lumbar curve I feel my ischials and then my anus come into contact with the sitting surface. I see no “cross purposes” as you have described.

Your symptoms are indeed severe and sound like they have been influenced by long-term dietary, postural and hormonal factors.

I believe these chronic conditions are reversible.

Sincerely,

Christine

So glad to hear! It took me a while to get nauli too, but once you have it, you have it forever. I will love to hear of your progress. You know, I was thinking...are you and your caregivers sure you don't have a rectal intussusception?