Sagging anterior vagina-new to forum

I am not as experienced as many on here, but I will give you my thoughts on your situation. Please don't hurry into surgery. I had an anterior repair, but it has not been a success and to be honest it is worse than before the op. I also now know of 3other women who have had prolapse surgery and out of the 4 of us only one is a success. I am not saying don't do it - only you can Be the judge of that, but give yourself time to try non-surgical options. I am making progress with WW principles, pelvic floor exercises, and clinical Pilates ( done with a physio, on reformer beds, and no intra abdominal pressure). I also swim 3 times a week, and do the WW DVD once or twice a day. I know it is hard to find time to look after yourself when looking after little ones, but you need to somehow. Oh.. And you need plenty of patience. Hope this helps you until you hear from some of our more experienced women.
Lindy

Hello Peacebaby - the most important thing you can do is familiarize yourself with the posture. Get the book and the video if you can, otherwise you can find a description on the FAQ link above, and there is lots of information not just on this forum but on the entire website. It's something new to get used to, and it will take awhile. You keep the belly relaxed, and pull up through your chest. This keeps the lumbar curve in place, at the base of the spine. It's the opposite of what we've always been taught, which is to pull in the stomach and tuck in the butt - wrong! Whole Woman posture encourages the organs to nestle forwards into the belly, instead of pushing back and down. It is the basis for all of this work.

If you are a yoga fan, you should know that Christine has her own series of yoga videos. Yoga was originally developed for male bodies and there are a number of traditional moves that are absolutely not good for female pelvic organ support. Please check them out!

Welcome and please stick around....LOTS of information here and a wonderful group of women to help with your questions! - Surviving60

Dear Peacebaby,
Hi! Sorry to hear you are in the group of us (over 50%,across ages) dealing with prolapse issues. The pelvic organs work separately and together. It is a wonderful arrangement. However, when something goes wrong it is not usually alone. The cervix is often called the ceiling of the vagina. Your uterus is probably influencing the vagina. I have prolapse issues. You could get more than one diagnosis and they might each differ. The important thing is that you can make changes in your body. Our posture definitely influences the state of our well being. You do sit for a very long period. You may be sitting in a way that is causing your pelvic diaphragm to relax and weaken. Prolapse occurs when the organs move out of their natural position-facing forward in the lower abdomen. There are excellent illustrations in Christine's book. Also some of your yoga exercises may be further encouraging the organs to scooch back out of position. If you have been pulling in the abs, tucking the tail under, doing crunches--they all encourage the organs to shift. Many of the exercises we do forms of yoga,pilates were developed by men and they can over time cause real harm to women. Our pelvic organ support system is a wonderful yet delicate balance. I would suggest that you get Christine's book and DVD and baton. She has also just put out a yoga DVD especially for post partum women like yourself. Do not be deceived that the work is easy. It must be done well and often. The posture is a life style change. You will need to sit differently at work, adjust driving posture and think about your daily activities. You will probably enjoy learning firebreathing with your background. Over time, and it is not always a long time you will notice changes. Surgery will be there if you decide to explore it. I chose to try and manage my condition without surgery. So many women have been disappointed with surgery and now are suffering even more.
I can tell you first hand that I was in worse condition than you and now things are much better. Take a look at the store which really describes the videos well. I certainly encourage you to read the book. As yet there is no consensus of how to define good posture. Christine has thoroughly done her research and I think she is on to it. Plus, so many of us are getting better. Good luck,WWPA

Hi Peacebaby and welcome to our wonderful forums. I was first diagnosed with a sagging vaginal lining and was told to do kegels which i did for quite some time without success. BTW i was doing them correctly as my Physio told me that a lot of her patience found them difficult to do including her and that i was her star pupil as i was good at separating certain muscles from others. I'm just trying to say that even though i was doing them correctly, they didn't work. They did make me a bit more comfortable but ultimately led to rectocele which really scared me and forced me to start my search leadind me to Christine and her wonderful work.
I have now been here 8 months and have been symptom free for a long while and that is only by living in the ww posture and doing the fire breathing in the early stages.
It's surprising how quickly i saw results. I don't have that loose feeling in my vagina anymore either.

I know from experience that the only way to get results is to apply ww principles.
PS i play cricket with my 6 yr old Grandson now and never thought i would ever again - Mishek

Mishek, how often do you exercise? I do Yoga every day, but my progress has stopped. I have more sagging feeling now, but I am pain free...
Ivonush

Ivonush i am ashamed to admit that i don't do any exercises apart from walking every morning for 20 minutes. In the first few months after joining this forum i did the WW workout from lesson one to lesson six everyday including firebreathing and occasionally i would do some of the other more advanced exercises but now i don't do any. I know that i probably should and in fact you have now prompted me to do some. Thanks for that!
For me along the way it was taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back and then eventually the 1 step back became less and less until the 1 step back didn't happen any more.
I haven't had that 1 step back in awhile and am hoping it stays that way.

Of course taking my probiotics have helped me to empty my bowels everyday by making my stools firmer (sometimes i miss a day ) but i don't worry as i know if it's not today it will be tomorrow.
And also if i miss a day it is not uncomfortable anymore.
So you'll find Ivonush that in time you will improve - just accept your prolaps go with it don't fight against it and you will be just fine. It takes some time and patience. Hope this helps. Mishek.

Hi Peaceably,
Not much more to add to the great response already. Just to clarify, if you have a bulging anterior vaginal wall you have a cystocele prolapse. As someone said the pelvic floor organs are individual but so close to each other they also influence and effect each other. Pelvic floor organs are not rigid and are in a fairly fluid environment and are moveable to a degree. Prolapse symptoms arise when one or more of the organs have been somewhat displaced. The good news is that just as the organs can move into displacement they can also move into a better position. The ww approach works within a framework of the female anatomy which Christine has studied and recently brought to light. This is based on the fact that the pelvic organs are supported by the pelvic bones underneath (just in front of your vagina) and directly behind the abdomen at the front. For this reason ww posture is key to recovery. An awareness of ww posture throughout our lives becomes an integral part of the ww way! Given your background you might well enjoy Christine's yoga dvd's. The ww yoga is obviously a bit different as it is designed for women's bodies and health. Yoga has evolved and developed in many different ways, especially in recent decades, and this is a form of yoga for women by women - but no less demanding for that of course! You might also enjoy Christine's first dvd '1st aid for prolapse'. It's more dance orientated. I found these movements harder as I was used to yoga but not dance, but I really enjoyed it. This dvd also explains the ww theory in some detail. Buy the book if you can - it's a brilliant resource and help. Other things that help are definately avoiding constipation, (stewed fruit works great for me), avoid straining on the loo, sneeze bending down, rest when you can if you need it... enjoy life,,, 1 thing I found was that the ww way made me look at my whole life. 1 way of looking at prolapse is that it signifies a body literally out of balance. Recovery is all about regaining a healthy balance. As everything is inter-linked this involves looking at all aspects of our lives and if possible making positive changes where appropriate.
Just over a year ago I felt very desperate; a health conscious active person struck down with uterine prolapse whilst skiing. For a while I was so uncomfortable and in pain I was in bed a lot and deslolately considering my rather bleak options - until I found ww and avidly followed this site, the book and the dvd's. Now my prolapse symptoms have greatly improves, I manage prolapse successfully with ww recommendations and feel really happy and healthy.
All the best, wholewomanuk

Yes, I need to accept it...I am still fighting...I still don't have enough patience. It was going so well in the beginning and now a huge set back (pain + other symptoms)...I try to distract myself, but I am always with it...I guess I do too much self-checking, as if monitoring each new sign and looking for pathology...
Ivonush

Hi Peaceabley

Just a word of encouragement about your job and sitting for twelve hour shifts.

I also have an anterior prolapse - it's a urethrocele. I'm in my late forties and it devastated me when I discovered it. I still have a young family, a very active life and a killer career and I thought it would have a huge impact on all three.

My doctor advised surgery. We were prepared to blow a lot of our savings on it. Then I read Saving the Whole Woman and it and these forums changed my life. Slowly I started to understand that I was not damaged, that my problem was as much postural as gynaecological and that, by changing my posture and giving up my tight jeans and careless lifting habits, I could control my pelvic condition for a very long time.

Two years later. I rarely have time to visit these forums and I rarely think about my prolapse. My posture has changed for ever but it has become second nature. I don't worry unduly about most activities because I can do them in posture. My prolapse varies from day to day but is rarely severe and is always brilliantly high and tucked after a long stretch at my desk sitting in posture.

Only you can decide but I wouldn't do anything until you have read the book and given whole woman principals a fair trial - say a year? What have you got to lose? Christine's principals challenge those of conventional medicine but they make perfect scientific sense. I have a hunch that in fifty years they will become mainstream because, when you start researching, you'll see that even gynaecologists don't have much faith in the surgery but they feel it's all they have to offer.

Wishing you all the best. I found these forums a great help when I was still new to understanding my body and obsessively worried.

Doubtful

It's great to hear the stories from women who have reduced the sag in their anterior wall.

I've got the saggy feeling at the moment. It's probably the worst it's been since I discovered I had prolapse early last year. It's pretty much with me any time I am standing. I have short periods where I am not aware it but that's about it. I am trying to be in posture all the time (but as I said it another thread, I'm not sure if my bones are in the right positions for the posture yet, so I know I've got more work to do there).

For those who have reduced the sag, was it something very gradual, or did it happen more suddenly?

On an anatomical note, what is the sag? It can't be the bladder itself as it doesn't get bigger when the bladder is fuller. To me it feels like a small spongy bubble.

Yes, it is the bladder, Curiosity, but it can also be the urethra. It doesn't get any bigger when your bladder is full because the fuller your bladder gets the more it acts like a pessary, and can't fit through any gap that has formed in the fascia between bladder and vagina, unless you do a lot of straining of any sort, and kind of force it through the gap and rip it more.

Louise

Thanks Louise. I hope my questions aren't too dumb. So I wasn't aware that something would have to have ripped. I was more thinking in terms of connective tissue stretching and my bladder dropping. Does there have to be a rip if you have a cysctocele?

H Curiosity

Yes, rip was probably not the best choice of word. Stretching or deformation is probably more accurate.

As far as I know, connective tissue is like a three dimensional spider's web.

Q When does a stretch turn into a rip?

A When the holes get bigger. It is a bit like "How long is a piece of string?".

It does have the ability to stretch to a degree but can be damaged to the point where it will not go back to its former configuration, if it stretched past its capacity to expand, eg when a person becomes obese, or if it is deliberately cut during surgery to allow a surgeon to access a space or to shift an organ out of the way to access another organ. Surgical destruction can be significant because, as far as I know, connective tissue cannot repair itself and I have never seen any evidence that any effort is made to repair where it is cut or blunt dissected during surgery (where instruments without a cutting edge, or fingers, are inserted into a closed space, to open a path for surgical access into a deeper space.

Repairing connective tissue would be like mending a hole in panty hose, because the site of pulling the fine fibres together will pucker and pull and always be prone to pulling into another hole. The only way they seem to be able to repair it is by suturing it with muscle to another cut muscle surface, where it becomes enmeshed in scar tissue, or by actually inserting mesh at the site of a tear, eg repair of a hernia. That's about all I know.

Louise

Thanks Louise. Somehow thinking about a stretch rather than a rip makes me feel much better!