Thanks For Caring

Hi Cleo,
Thank you so much for sharing that with us. There is so much pressure to follow the usual conventional medical/surgical route that many women find it very hard to say no I'll try WW instead. I'm so pleased to hear you're feeling so much better. It's so helpful and inspring to hear that.
I'm just wondering as I write - I wonder if you would consider writing a success story for the WW forum. I know Christine and Lanny are always glad to have testimonials for other women to find solace, courage and inspiration from other women's stories. Just a thought if you haven't done so already.
Big thanks :) xwholewomanuk

I wish I had opted out of surgery. I considered doing so when my surgeon said she was doing the posterior colp... (however you spell it) vs. a site specific repair, but she was a HIGHLY respected surgeon and I went ahead. She ended up also tacking my cervix to my sacrum and 10 days later (after I had not been able to pee without catheratization, and hadn't been able to sit without excruciating pain) she undid the tack up and left the rest. I wish I had had the forethought to tell her to undo the posterior colp thing too.
For the first few months after the 2nd surgery, elimination was fine, but over time it got harder and harder to have a BM. Even before discovering this website, I realized that clothes and position are key! This website has so completely confirmed what I already have discovered on my own. I'm praying that with firebreathing, the WW position, the exercises, the right clothes, etc. I can get back to some sense of normalcy, meaning that I can have a complete BM without need of an enema. Thank you so much, Christine and the WW community!

Thanks Jewel so much for sharing this. I hope that CKINN will read this - she asked, why do we live with prolapse, when we can just get it all "sorted" with a simple operation? - Surviving

Hello Louise eds I have read in the forums that you can put people in touch with each other so I would be so grateful if I could get in touch with Cleo who has posted at the top of this page about her success with not having an operation for rectocele and if she is still doing ok. I have read quite a lot of your posts about intestines lying down on the rectum causing pressure which I have all day everyday. PLEASE tell me what posture to do to help with this. I am still only at the stage of trying to stand straight and get that bit right. As for fire breathing etc I have looked at it on tube and in WW book, but I am afraid to do it in case I do it wrong. I also try on my hands and knees leaning on my elbows (which I am doing now on my I pad typing this) but I am not feeling anything is improving. I am on a waiting list for surgery but so wish I could see some results from this WW approach. How long should it take to stop having the bulge/pressure feeling. Thanks again. Charlene

Hi Charlene - while you are waiting to be put in touch with Cleo, you can search her forum posts by clicking on her name and going to the Tracking tab. I think that you will find Whole Woman posture is how she manages her prolapse.

Charlene, one reason you are not getting results is that you are not using WW posture. Are you still not able to stand straight and you still cannot relax your belly? You need to be in posture all the time, and it doesn't sound you have even "found" that posture yet. What do you think is preventing you from doing it? - Surviving

Thank you surviving 60 and I will check out Cleo posts. I'm not very good at computing so did not know that was how to read them. I am doing the posture everyday but I do don't feel anything happening or any change. Everyday I have a pressure feeling and it feels like I need to empty my bowel and have tried Christine's tip of up and. Down movement which has helped, but I have constant pressure all day everyday and a fullness feeling which i keep thinking means i have not emptied my bowel properly, but when i go back to the bathroom i do not pass anything, but I cant get rid of the presure feeling as I am confused as to whether it means I need to empty my bowel or not, and I think its taking over my life trying to feel comfortable every day without this pressure.which is making it so hard to stand up or walk about, as I just want to lie down rather than trying to stand, so I have went down on all fours today instead, but it has not helped. Maybe there is something wrong in my diet, as I can only have a good day if I eat very little. I am so depressed because I cannot feel better from this abdominal pressure everyday. I got a date to have my operation but cancelled it and really want to try this instead of surgery, but I so wish I could find something from this posture to help. Sorry again to bother you but what changes did you feel when you started doing the standing posture? Did it take away the pressure feeling in the abdomen, or maybe I have to wait for that to happen. I would be glad of some feedback or suggestions. Thanks. Charlene.

Dear Charlene44

Abdominal pressure can be caused by things such as bloating, constipation, fibroids, wind or early pregnancy.

Apart from that, it is sometimes hard to know the difference between needing to defecate, to pass wind or whether it is the distended pressure of the prolapse itself which is causing a general tension in the pelvic area; they can all create that urge feeling that normally means you want to go.

The posture, as you know, is the important thing, but if you are having difficulty holding it because of the pressure in your abdomen then you are in a bit of a fix.

I suggest you concentrate on relieving this pressure. This means initially looking out for the health of your intestines and the regularity of your bowel. If your bowel movements are regular, then you will know in most cases whether or not the urge means you need to go. If you become regular then you can cancel out constipation as being the cause of pressure. If you look out for your intestine health you will know that the pressure is not due to bloating or wind or the spasms of diarrhoea.

If you do not go regularly, rather than eating just a small amount of food make sure that you eat a small amount of the right things. Include potassium, vitamin c, calcium and magnesium in your daily diet. Something like a cucumber, apple, Greek yoghurt and a handful of walnuts or almonds and a little saturated fat like cream or butter alongside your protein and veg. These are the elements that make for a soft stool and regularity.

The urge that comes at other times you may find is possibly wind. Try avoiding or cutting back on those foods that specifically give you wind. Walking of course can very often help you pass wind as can massaging your abdomen.

If you fluctuate with a mixture of constipation and diarrhoea, it might be advisable to take a course of good (multi strains) probiotics and magnesium citrate to restore the healthy flora in your gut. This again should result in regularity and soft easy to pass stools.

If you have mild diarrhea then your bowel is probably being used too regularly. You may find that you are eating something incompatible. Find out what it is and stop eating it.

Your aim is to control your bowels and improve the health of your intestines so that they are regular and predictable and in turn you have a better understanding of the constant urge you are feeling by watching out for variation.

Why not try going for a short walk immediately after the next time you defecate. You know at that point that you should be safe for five minutes or so and just walk. Build it up slowly every second day, then when your confidence returns every day.

See if any of this helps. Then come back with any more questions.

Hi Charlene - Lots of wonderful suggestions from Fab and I hope they give you some ideas to try. I can't help thinking that the pressure you are talking about, is simply the heaviness of prolapse. I think you are having trouble assuming WW posture and also you may have an expectation that if only you could stand the right way, it would all go away. But this is not a quick fix, it is a maintenance program. You have to make room in your belly for your organs to be supported over the pubic bones, and then, you have to work all the time to encourage them to stay there. Much of it becomes habit after awhile, but it is something you must always be mindful of. So....you've had lots of good suggestions here on the forum, and you need to nail this posture thing once and for all.

One question, what do you mean when you say that you get down on all fours but it does not help? Do you mean that you still feel the pressure while you are down there? Or do you mean that the pressure comes back when you stand up again? - Surviving

Thank you Fab for all that dietary advice and I will have a closer look at my diet also, but the thing is I am not constipated and can go everyday to the toilet. My problem is I am feeling the heaviness of the prolapse (I think) as Surviving 60 said, but because it causes a pressure feeling like I need to empty my bowels it sends a confusing message even though I have only emptied my bowel say half an hour before that. That is my main problem that I am confusing the prolapse pressure with the urge to empty my bowel and never know which is which. Yes surviving 60 you are right thats exactly what it is, so when I go down on all fours it goes away but when I stand up again its back, so you have clarified things for me as I was always thinking I hadnt emptied my bowel properly, but when I would try to go again nothing would come out. (no wonder if its the prolapse causing pressure and not stool, probably expalins also why I feel more comfortable if I dont eat much and not a heavy weight in the intestines) About the posture, I stand up straight, pull up upper body with inhale, so when I do that does the belly automically relax or do I need to push my belly out. I have tried doing this but cant just get what this means about making room for organs to be supported, so I think Im not doing it right atal. There is no WW teacher near me as I live in Scotland, so I am very hard to teach!! as so afraid if I have it wrong that I will do more harm to the prolapse. By the way Survivng 60 I meant to say yesterday that Im glad you escaped hurricane Sandy and no damage done to your property. Thanks for helpful advise to yourself and Fab. Charlene.

Hi Charlene. Here’s what I think. I think that you are simply feeling the symptoms of your prolapse, and you are mistaking this heaviness or pressure for the need to go to the bathroom. Of course, your symptoms will fluctuate greatly throughout the day, and probably nothing affects this more than the emptiness or fullness of bladder and bowel. That being said, if you can simply recognize the prolapsey feeling for what it is, and stop trying to second-guess your eating and bathroom habits, you can start to relax and work on getting those organs forward in the belly, so they aren’t exerting so much pressure.

To do this, you need posture. When you lift your chest, and take a breath into your belly, does the belly expand? I hope so. You just have to relax that belly, NOT pull your tummy in, and NOT tuck your butt under. If you cannot consciously relax the belly muscles, then go ahead and try pushing your belly out. Do whatever you can think of to make room in there for your organs. Lean forward and jiggle a bit, then stand up with a relaxed belly and pulled-up chest. It’s not magic; you will not suddenly stop feeling your bulge. But over time, if you keep that space open, you should be able to use this concept to keep the organs primarily supported over the pubic bones. This beats the heck out of any of the alternatives for managing this.

Don’t give up! - Surviving

Normally, Surviving I would defer to your expertise in this area, if I can get away with calling it that. I just wanted to clear away a bit of the dross so that Charlene could work out more specifically what she was dealing with. It seems you two have reached agreement on this which is great.

If you want to relax your belly, lift your chest, push your belly out, THEN let it go, and it will come back in to the right place. Then lift your chest further and you will feel it come in a tiny bit by itself. Then your belly is right.

Learning how to breathe with your diaphragm will reinforce your belly's ability to relax. Keep chest and shoulder breathing for when you are breathing hard. They are your reinforcements.

Let your belly come out when you breathe in, and allow it to come in when you breathe out. It is often easier to learn it lying down, where you can relax completely and just concentrate on your breathing. You could even try it lying on your tummy, and pressing into the floor with your abdomen while breathing in. Just remember that it feels different when lying down, to how it feels standing or sitting.

It can be frustratingly difficult at first, especially if you are feeling stressed about it. I found myself the other day in a stressful situation , and my POP's started bothering me. Then I realised it was because I was holding my tummy in, slouching my posture and breathing with my chest and shoulders, which tensed my shoulders up. A couple of postural and breathing adjustments and ten minutes later, my symptoms had gone again.

So much of learning these new habits is everyday mindfulness of how you are.

Louise

Fab, I would consider your level of expertise much greater than mine. I have gotten much of my knowledge from your posts, as you have written extensively about some major areas that are outside of my experience. In the case of Charlene, I think the jury is still out and we have not yet heard back from her on this thread. I simply had a flash of intuition that maybe the pressure she kept referring to was simply her prolapse talking, and she was having a hard time distinguishing prolapse symptoms from the actual full bowel feeling. Also I think Charlene is having a bit of trouble "finding" her posture. Charlene if you're out there today, let us know if any of this in helping! - Surviving

Hello again, thanks for your replies as just got back to computer. I think it's that I am having a hard time knowing which is prolapse and which is need to empty bowel. I have tried the posture a few times today while up and walking around, including trying to stand straight with a small catalogue on my head, also going down on all fours and am sitting now rather than lying down, so I am hoping it helps. Yesterday I went for about two miles walk and tried with walking in straight posture. I wear a fembrace, otherwise I would not be able to walk outside, and it helps but is so uncomfortable if I wear it sitting down. I am glad of Fab's advice about my diet also as I am a real glutton for crisps and eat two bags daily ( I am addicted to them I think) but also tried cutting them out for six weeks, so it did not help, so that is why I think it's the prolapse is causing the pressure weight. I think I might try eating extra fruit if it would help to keep my intestines less full and heavy. I do not like apples or cucumber as they do not agree with me. I take movicol (which is a fibre drink) daily too, so I will look closer at my diet.Thank you Louise for explaining the posture, and I will try again. I am quite afraid if I am doing it wrong that it will make the prolapse worse and how can you tell if you have the posture right. There is so much posture in the book and exercises, but how do you all know how to do it correctly. Is there more info if I bought a DVD and should I buy the one for elders or which one would you think I should get? I am 61yrs. I don't know if I can do a lot of these exercise without some kind of guidance/teaching to be sure I am doing them right. Again thanks to you all for helping me. Charlene

Charlene, if you do not have a DVD, I'd recommend you get one. Start with First Aid for Prolapse. You probably don't need the Elders version unless you are significantly limited in what you can do. I'd say get the regular DVD and do what you can. This is my recommendation, from reading your posts.

The Fembrace sounds like a mixed blessing. You need it for walking, but you can't sit comfortably while wearing it. Does it constrict your belly? I'm concerned that you still may not be relaxing your belly, and you will not make any progress until you do. Don't give up! - Surviving

I love that you keep on posting here. I too am 61 and am here to tell you there is so much hope. I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that you are "trying the posture" and not "living" the posture. Yes, there will be questions and doubts but at every given moment that you are up and about (standing, walking, sitting) you must be striving to own this posture. It is not something to be tried with any expectation that you will get immediate results. The effort to do this is enormous, but it will give you something very good and very positive to be thinking about no matter what, until your results begin to appear. I do not think you need to worry that you will make things worse. If you are lifting the chest, relaxing the belly, attempting to breath into the belly and not the chest.....then these efforts alone will help you, even if it isn't perfect. I know that mine is not perfect, but until I have the opportunity to meet with Christine or one of the teachers, I will strive to make it the best that I can. That is all you can do....BUT you must do it every waking moment (that you are up). I know that I sound beastly right now. I have commented before to you regarding this because it doesnt sound to me like you are doing it 24/7 (when up). I am your age, and although we are all so very different, I believe that you will be benefitted by this, just like I was. In my first 2 weeks, I was so upset, so uncomfortable, everything hurt (lower back, pelvic area, everything)...but in trusting this and working it every moment, at the beginning of the third week, things got better. Can you tell me dear Charlene, how long have you been working this posture constantly? I know what you mean about wanting a teacher....I feel the same way. But, until you have that opportunity, try to trust your efforts. Also, you might want to see if Louise would skype with you and you could have a lesson that way. Have you considered that? I am sending you much love and best wishes for this.

Hi Charlene444, I too am learning the WW posture and working on being mindful of being in posture all the time I am upright. I have been doing this work for almost six months and something I still find very helpful is having a full-length mirror in the hallway. I pass through the hallway all the time and use the mirror to chek my posture - at first I would just stand in front of it and go through the steps, working up from my feet. I too was unsure if I was getting it right, and would purposefully do the opposite (like hunch my shoulders or tuck my backside in) or exaggerate (stick my backside out as far as I could) and observe and focus on feeling the difference. This really helped me identify how it feels to be in WW posture so I can check that I feel right when I am walking and sitting and doing stuff round the house. If you are not actually consciously sucking in your tummy or clenching and tucking in your backside, I am not sure that you can do any harm by trying to be in posture, even if you haven't got it perfectly. I am sure it is better to try and do it as best you can even if you don't do it perfectly at first.
Something else I have done is nominate times or activities when I will really focus on the posture (like when doing the dishes) and then give myself a break from focussing so hard on it. If you can give yourself a break lying down, that is the best! The mental effort needs baby-steps as much as the physical effort but the more you practice the less you will have to think about it. It's intense at first and it's a process, a journey, to develop this new posture and way of living, and I hope you can get through this first really difficult bit!

Thanks for your replies and support which is much appreciated. I am going to order the DVD as surviving 60 has recommended. The embrace is great for walking about but not for sitting as the waistband is made of wide elastic band. To MsNightingale, thanks for helping me, and yes I do not live the posture but the main reason was I am afraid if I was doing it wrong the prolapse would worsen. Yesterday was the first day I tried it for a longer period of time both sitting and standing. It is so very hard to keep at it. I thought maybe all of you ladies had some kind of tutoring on how to do it and that I was doing it wrong, so I will keep trying. I am glad you have found relief and it gives me inspiration to carry on. Also thanks for offering to have Louise skpe me to show me the posture. My daughter has removed skpe from my iPad as I never used it so not sure how that works, but I will keep trying with the posture. Thank you KiwiSarasha I don't think I am tucking my tummy or but in as I do not consciously think so, that's why this belly relaxing thing is so difficult to understand. I have looked at videos on tube of diaphragm breathing so could that be how to relax belly by doing the breathing through abdomen. Anyway thanks again for all the support,and I am sorry for being a nuisance and will try harder. God Bless.

Hi Charlene - Most of us here are "self-taught" in the posture, from Christine's book/videos/articles and with assistance from this forum. The network of WW practitioners is a recent development and is still getting off the ground, and for most of us, a trip to the WW studio is not easily arranged. If at some point you feel you've done all you can with these resources, and are still in need of help, a private consultation with Christine or another practitioner may be in order. The information you need to set this up in on the Store tab, and also WW Practitioners. - Surviving

Hey Charlene, you are not being a nuisance. Give yourself a break. You are just trying to learn, and some of us have a harder time than others. If we all learned instantly these forums would be so much smaller, and probably quite boring. Without a teacher it is really only you who can explore the different things your body can do. Just perservere and be patient. No dumping on yourself, OK?

Have you tried cooking the apples and other fruit, eg prunes. Your tummy might enjoy them better that way. Unfortunately, crisps don't seem to be on the healthy diet triangle. Have a look at this website, to give you an idea about how to eat in healthy ways. http://dietmotion.com/how-much-is-a-serving.html . Crisps are very high in fat and calories, and they don't have a lot of fibre. They are quite salty too. I hope you are drinking enough to keep your stool from drying out. Because they are high in calories, and because potato is such a filling food, you may be missing out on more valuable foods, which will keep your gut moving. White flour products are quite similar to potato. Try to go for whole grains and steamed or boiled potatoes, or potato salad.

This really is a new lifestyle, incorporating changes to how we arrange our body, how we clothe it, how we exercise it, how we feed it, and how we use it. You may need to get used to the posture slowly, but you start on everything else too.

Louise

This is very similar to me, i do bm everyday not really constipated, however i still feel like i need to keep going all day, (surviving 60 i have asked for your help about it on another post!) I dont really have pressure only sometimes straight after but maybe thats because I am straining i dont know, but i think great thats over I have done a bm but then i still feel like i need to go again, sometimes I am able to go again and other times i cannot. I am working every day on posture as I have seen the improvements, just started exercises as well and I hope to be more positive :), thank you

Sorry Louise I have asked you as well on my other post gone in to a lot of detail!!! Didnt see there was another thread :)

Livegoeson,04
I just read your post and thank you for posting and so wish there was a solution for that annoying feeling of having to keep going and straining and so hard to know when it's a real need to go. It's so very frustrating. Does anyone know what causes that or if its prolapse that causes it or ibs or something else. I'm not sure where the other thread on this is so hope someone posts what it's under. Thanks Louise eds for the website on dietary advise (sorry I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but will do so as I have a sickness bug and not back on my computer since). Charlene.

Hello, sorry was struggling to find where i had posted this comment, just found how you search your history!!! So that was the delay. Finding it really frustrating as well because I hate going, find it scary whether I will be able to or not, am i making it worse etc etc.... I am just hoping with keeping the posture, doing the exercises and things it may improve, think we can only try to keep positive, I have had pressure for 2 days so scared whats coming down now!! Which is annoying when I have been a lot better. Are you finding any improvement? Dont like the sound of any surgery so will keep going and mentally try to stay positive :)

Hi Charlene - it's not too hard to find discussion threads where you have commented or asked a question. First, you have to be signed in. Then, just click on your profile name, anywhere on the screen that you see it (or you can click on "my account"). Then click on "Track". There you will see a list of all the discussions where you have participated. You can click to look at any and all of them. - Surviving