Recently diagnosed with bladder prolapse

Hi there rojo and welcome to WW! Have you read the FAQ's and the Hysterectomy section of the site?

We have post-hyst members who have reported some improvement with WW posture, which might help them to move the remaining organs forward even in the absence of the “hub of the wheel”. Others might not be helped, and might experience some back pain trying to regain the lost lumbar curvature.

The bottom line is that it can't hurt to try. This is a great place to be for guidance, information, and just a good general warm fuzzy feeling that you are doing your best for your body. Stick around! - Surviving

It's good to see the description of how your POP first became most apparent, rojo, as I too built a fish pond at least 3 times, tugging and carrying heavy rocks and boulders. While my appendages benefitted, my pelvic organs did not. Add to that perfect storm, menopause and three vaginal births over 53 years. I've been vegan or vegetarian for a third of my life, thin, well-built, athletic but never imagined the feeling of sagging organs would stop me in my tracks.

I'm eight days post-op for an anterior vaginal wall tightening using cadaveric tissue, not mesh, to strengthen and lift this weakened area of my vagina. In fact, Dr. Donald Ostergard who is mentioned in one of Christine's newsletters consulted on this surgery which is the only reason I agreed to do it. ( http://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=469 ). I was spared incontinence so a bladder sling was not necessary. And thankfully my hub is still intact no matter how many times an ObGyn has offered to remove it, over the years, for any number of inane reasons.

While I know my surgery only has a 70% success rate, I did not learn of WW until after my surgery. I scoured the internet for anything related to the subject and wonder how I missed this site. I don't know if I would have delayed the surgery but I hope the information from WW will benefit me in some way.

Hi Up2early and welcome! All of us can benefit greatly from the insights and experience of some post-ops folks on here, so please share! Lots of good wishes come your way for good and lasting results from your procedure. If the statistics are accurate, the odds are in your favor, and some good Whole Woman living might just put you over the top. The posture can do you no harm and might help you maintain the surgical results by minimizing stress on the tissues and restoring that lumbar curvature that is so important for our hip health as we age. It's lifelong work for any of us. Please keep posting. - Surviving

Hi Rojo

It is very sad that you are now experiencing bladder prolapse after heavy exertion. And yes, the FAQ's would have been disappointing, if you had been expecting to find that you could expect as good results from this work after hysterectomy. Sadly, we cannot say that, and it would be pointless to beat around the bush and mislead you. You are fit and active, so you are in the best possible shape to get optimum improvement without the aid of your uterus.

However, like all women with prolapse you will need to be prepared to back off from some tasks in future, and think your way round them, rather than going in and just doing it, if you have the muscle. There is some head adjustment for all of us, and having to accept that we have to go more carefully, now our pelvic support is compromised, as yours is.

Not necessarily get less done, but be more mindful of doing tasks in ways that will not lead to further damage. More loads, and lighter. Slow and deliberate rather than fast and hurrying.

I am wondering what symptoms you are having with stage 3 bladder prolapse? We may be able to help you wiht specific aspects of it.

Hi Up2early

I just picked up on your comment about the Dr Ostergard. We used his book on Urogynecology and Pelvic Floor Dysfunction as one of our texts/references during teacher training, so that we would get some understanding of pelvic repair procedures. It was not pleasant reading, and made me realise even more how difficult these procedures are to do.

Having a 'top' doctor consulting when you are making a decision about surgery can be a bit awe inducing. It is as if you have God in the room with you, or that God gave an opinion. It is very difficult as a lay person to know whether one doctor's confidence in a higher doctor will mean a good result for the patient or not.

Time will tell for you, whether or not you will have further prolapse problems. Yes, I wish you had found this site before the surgery too, but it was not to be. Hang in there with your recovery. Hope it all goes well. Whole Woman principles will stand you in good stead anyway. Every woman needs good posture, a high quality diet, sympathetic clothing, appropriate exercise, and the knowledge to do her tasks and live her life in ways that support her body's structure.

Louise

Good morning Louised, Please tell me what sympathetic clothing is?

Mahalo and much Aloha,
Heavenlyflower

Hi Rojo

Nothing is futile until you prove it so. Your pursuit for solutions has gotten you this far. You don't know yet what else you may find that will benefit you. Not everyone is the same. Gosh, to have a successful hysterectomy for 25 years has already put you in a class of your own. Now with the bladder prolapse, you find yourself on a different venture, possibly one without surgery. You may find something in Christine's book and DVD that will help, or in just thinking about the new information you may come up with something valuable to yourself, and something worth sharing with others.

For someone physically active, a runner like yourself, the sudden inaction can be soul destroying, think of it instead as a balancing of your life where now you need to pursue less vigorous activities at least for the meanwhile, but they are activities none the same and things which are distractions away from depression and back into life.

Cheers Fab

Heavenly Flower

If you look under Whole Woman Conference, you will find a mention of a clothing line (Blue Fish) and if you go into their site, they have illustrations of sympathetic clothing. Roughly speaking it means loose clothing, or if you like tight jeans ones that are not tight around the abdomen or waist. Some members have described hipster style jeans. I myself, not very fashion conscious, wear elastic waists. Louised has described how she makes suitable clothing on the forum in previous threads so you could check the search box.

Cheers Fab

Thank you Fab for you quick response, I will certainly look under the WW conference
Mahalo and much Aloha
Heavenlyflower

sorry, Heavenly Flower, I just made up the term on the spur of the moment, to mean clothing that is designed to be in sympathy with a woman's body when she wants it to do what she wants it to do, and not clothing that prescribes how the body has to adjust to it, for it to look OK.

I really meant clothing that does not compress the belly, or pull in the crotch, and tops that are long enough to hide the top of your trousers or skirt, if you need to leave them pinned, or with a gap, or a strange looking waist line, in order to be comfortable wearing them. Yes, they are often loose, but not always. Sometimes it is just a matter of cunning fabric cutting, additional plackets, or the way the grain lies.

Louise

Hi Rojo - yes, we've heard of tampons being used, perhaps you will find some mention of this if you use the search function. How to do it, I guess would involve experimentation. I have primary rectocele and my oldest known prolapse symptom was the way that tampons were being expelled. So I was not too surprised when I tried this one time, and found it extremely uncomfortable, not to mention useless. Everyone is different so if you feel like experimenting, I would suggest lubricating it with something. - Surviving

It is time to talk to your local medical association and ask if your family doctor is allowed to refuse to get a second opinion. It sounds unethical to me.

... Or else you misunderstood each other. She may have meant that you deal with one OB/GYN at a time, ie find out what this one says, and *then* get a second opinion. I know how flabbergasteredd I was when the Gyn started reeling off surgical procedures after examining me. I really wasn't listening or didn't hear the rest of what he had to say. So I left.

Just because you are going to see an OB/GYN doesn't give them carte blanche to operate on you. You are the one who will say yes or no, despite any doctor who tries to convince you otherwise with a "you have to, or it will get worse" sales pitch.

It is your body Rojo. It is your decision, no matter how many surgeons you consult.

The bottom line is that even if you get a second opinion, the only likely difference in recommendation is that the second doctor might want to do different procedures from the first doctor. Surgery is really all they have to offer women. "Do nothing" is the only real alternative they offer, and we know where that gets us. Ob/Gyn and Urogyn surgeons are only in business because women keep wanting surgical repair and cosmetic surgery procedures to their pelvic organs. The only other reasons they exist is because midwives are not allowed by law to be in charge of hospital births; correction of birth deformities, and cancer and other types of lifesaving surgery. The rest is the stuff we want to avoid, and have found ways of avoiding through Wholewoman techniques. I don't think I am saying anything incorrect here. Have a think about it.

Seek the truth.

Louise

Hi rojo - I don't believe that cystocele, or prolapse-friendly exercising, would normally be a cause of menstrual-like cramps. You are post-hyst, and your pelvic dynamics are a little different; futhermore you might be at a menopausal stage where there are other things going on. Listen to your body (trite, but so true). If you are feeling crampy, try getting into good WW posture and "walking it out". If the cramping persists, you might want to mention that to your doc. - Surviving

Hi Rojo

Hysterectomy is an amputation. People who have amputations get phantom pain. Perhaps that is what it is. You are certainly stirring something up, that's for sure.

It would be useful to know what procedure was done when you had your hysterectomy. Your vaginal vault may have been sutured to your sacrum, or into a ligament, or some other structure. This suturing will be quite firm, because the aim of the exercise is not to leave it slack to allow for movement but to hold the vaginal vault up and prevent intestines pushing it downwards.This may be pulling when you get into Wholewoman posture. It is also conceivable that remnants of the uterine nerve are somehow involved. You would need to clarify this with a gynaecologist. It is important that you know what you are affecting when your internal structure has been altered. As to whether or not you can harm yourself (pain being a signal of discomfort), that is a gynaecologist question as well.

Louise

Hi rojo. Whole Woman is more than just workouts. The exercises reinforce the posture, and the posture is what you are working to maintain your entire waking life. The rate of improvement can depend on many things. He's right that PT and kegels will not reverse the damage. Do you consciously walk, sit, move and lift in correct posture always? If not - you aren't actually working this program. It's all about moving the organs forward in the lower belly, which can only be accomplished if you create a space for them there. It's hard work and it's forever. It's better than anything else out there, but in the end, we all have to choose our path. - surviving

PS I just reread this thread and remembered that you are post-hyst. This can affect your results, but I don't think it necessarily means that surgery will be an improvement, as it rarely is except in the worst cases. If he is a patient guy, let him try to fit you for a pessary.

Rojo, If I had a dollar for everytime a Dr laughed off something I said in the past year I'd have a great vacay!

Anyone have some soreness/light back pain when first practicing the WW posture and exercises? I'm having some soreness-not real pain, just an ache. Anyone experience this when changing your posture?

Hi - I definitely had quite a lot of back pain and discomfort when adoptin WW posture about a year ago. I was thinking today how easy it is for me to do the posture now (still easy to slump too though when I am tired and not being mindful).
I also realised today I could touch my toes better than about twenty years ago. I wondered if that is because of the posture or because my borderline osteoporosis means my leg bones have shrunk ... oh dear.
I was out yesterday and walking around head held high, lumbar curve, smooth belly, and I caught a glimpse of myself ... how graceful I looked - and my husband was most admiring.
But yes, it does hurt in the beginning, I am sure if I go back over my posts there are some comments about the discomfort.
So happy I know this is part of my life now ..

Hi Shays, Yes, I had soreness and my back ached when I switched to WW Posture. Mine was mostly in the shoulder-blade area and up. I bet we all can agree on some soreness and backaching. We are using our muscles in a different way. What helped me is I would lay down and take breaks and I used a heating pad. This feels so good. Please know that it will get better over time. Just hang in there. Sometimes I still get some aching but I know this will dissapear completely in time. I realize that some people work and cannot take breaks and lay down. I am retired. You can experiment and find some things that will work for you. Others will have suggestions as well. Best of luck to you.

Hugs, Jaylove

Hi Shays – I am healthy and post-meno with virtually no significant medical history. For me, the soreness was nothing more than the good kind that you get from doing any activity that works muscles that have been lazy. There are others on this forum who may have experienced associated pain that is at least partly caused by other medical conditions that they have. Listen to your body, rest when you need it. Glad you are having good results! - Surviving

Yes, in the first two weeks I had a lot of soreness, upper back, hips and actually whole back. It just went around two weeks into it and now my back is feeling better than ever (except when I over did the DVDs right away and now am learning to listen to my body,( i hope). My hips feel better now too. How long have you been working on the posture? One of the hardest things for me is relaxing the belly and now I am becoming aware that the tensing up there is a habit I have had for a long time. Resting before you start to ache is really helpful and the position of elbows and knees is helping me amazingly! Have you tried that position? At first I just did it for a minute. I now find that if I stay in that position for maybe 5 minutes or more then I gently get up and everything feels like perfect. I hope that can help you as it does me. Best wishes to you!

Hello Shays, I was recently flicking through Christine's book and I noticed she had a suggestion for resting which might help if you are still working: if you are sitting, to slump forward with your elbows (I think it was - sorry don't have it in front of me) on your knees and your torso resting forward, until you feel like you can pull up into posture again. Much better than slouching and loosing your lumbar curve. Hope this helps!

Thanks ladies for all the advice and glad to know the soreness is a normal experience. I have been doing the posture for about 4 months now but have only been doing the exercises on the floor on and off for about two. I am a caregiver and right before I ordered the WW DVD, My elderly(dementia) client had passed away. I had been doing alot of lifting and transferring him as he was very immobile for the last six months or so of his life so that caused me to discover the prolapse-intense pain,especially in the very lower back and a dragging feeling. I have been working from home for a while now(artist) to concentrate on my sculpture but also as a way to recover. I also have stairs in my home and doing the posture while walking up and down stairs is difficult for me.

I am trying to learn to listen to my body more as I have been in the past a very type A person and tended to overfunction. This experience has forced me to change my ways but change does not occur overnight lol!

Thank you for all the lovely words and advice.

LOL!!! Takecare, you silly sausage. ;-)

It is the disks between your vertebrae that shrink with age, not the length of your legbones. If anything, you will be *less* able to touch your toes now, because your spine will be shorter, so your shoulders won't allow your arms to reach down as far.

I would think that your whole body is more flexible, particularly your hip joints, because you can now flex your hips more effectively. Well done!

Louise

Ha ha Louise I am silly sometimes .. was having a little joke with you but at the time I reached past my toes I did wonder for a moment how that could be after decades of restriction.
My discs have definitely shrunk in the lumbar region ...

I am sure my spine is shorter ...

I also liked what was said before about alleviating the 'dowager's hump' by keeping the posture and lumbar curve - now that's another good reason!

I am sure I am gradually elongating the hip/leg region - because I am more mobile in that area. I also went to lunch today and chose the 'hard' seat rather than the lounge chairs ... and I was the only one with a graceful upright posture ...

In terms of vanity the thought of grace, elegance, no hump, more flexibility, looking slimmer (when you slouch it adds about ten kilos to your appearance) without taking into the enormity of impact on POP symptoms.

Strange though how so few want to hear what you have to say ... even coming from the non-POP angle of good health in general.

I also want to thank those who respond to posts and reiterate the posture, the benefits, the theory etc., because it does start to sink in ... but you need the repetition for it to become a part of your life and to really understand and see why it matters so much.

Yes, Queen Takecare, it is interesting watching others from one's throne, isn't it?

I know there are a lot of things that I have been told repeatedly, that don't sink in and cause the lightbulb to glow, until the 99th time I have heard the same story.

I think people have to actually be in a zone where they are receptive to this work. It is not something you can drop into a conversation about something related, but not so stigmatised. All in earshot have to be female, interested and attentive, or at least receptive to things that are outside of their normal beliefs. That is a big ask. Keep it up (your chest, that is!).

Louise

Hi all, just popping in ,out of the woodwork, so to speak. I have found some very sympathetic leggings recently after a friend recommended them and said how comfy they were.,AND she doesn't have POP! WE don't live in the same area and it took me a while to find them, and boy are they becoming popular with all ages. I have 3 pairs, DD has 2,her bestfriend bought some and so did her mum.And they are made in USA.Different styles , materials and they seem to fit 5 different shapes that I know of .Our heights range from 5ft 2 to 5ft 8 aprox. I have denim blue bootleg, black and gray fine cord.Daughter prefers skinny jean ones. They have pockets on butt with a stitched zip look at front and nice flat waistband.When I googled I see they come in heaps more colours than we see here.The brand is 'Hues'.What surprised me was that short and long legs can wear them .I found the cord ones stretchier than the jean look ones.And a bit longer so I just tuck mine up a bit.They would be easy to hem I feel.The cord ones are good for winter here and Ive also worn silk leggings under mine and long boots when it was very cold.

"Hue" is the brand, I think. Yeah, they look nice.

Thanks for this post, I started using the WW woman posture and that explains my soreness in lower back and lower abdomen. I thought maybe it was bladder prolapse getting worse.

Thanks for this post, I started using the WW woman posture and that explains my soreness in lower back and lower abdomen. I thought maybe it was bladder prolapse getting worse.