When I first “cracked the code” on stabilizing and reversing prolapse, and wrote and published Saving the Whole Woman, I set up this forum. While I had finally gotten my own severe uterine prolapse under control with the knowledge I had gained, I didn’t actually know if I could teach other women to do for themselves what I had done for my condition.
So I just started teaching women on this forum. Within weeks, the women started writing back, “It’s working! I can feel the difference!”
From that moment on, the forum became the hub of the Whole Woman Community. Unfortunately, spammers also discovered the forum, along with the thousands of women we had been helping. The level of spamming became so intolerable and time-consuming, we regretfully took the forum down.
Technology never sleeps, however, and we have better tools today for controlling spam than we did just a few years ago. So I am very excited and pleased to bring the forum back online.
If you are already a registered user you may now log in and post. If you have lost your password, just click the request new password tab and follow the directions.
Please review and agree to the disclaimer and the forum rules. Our moderators will remove any posts that are promotional or otherwise fail to meet our guidelines and will block repeat offenders.
Remember, the forum is here for two reasons. First, to get your questions answered by other women who have knowledge and experience to share. Second, it is the place to share your results and successes. Your stories will help other women learn that Whole Woman is what they need.
Whether you’re an old friend or a new acquaintance, welcome! The Whole Woman forum is a place where you can make a difference in your own life and the lives of thousands of women around the world!
Best wishes,
Christine Kent
Founder
Whole Woman
Surviving60
June 30, 2012 - 3:14pm
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sponge questions
Chappie, I'm not a sponge user, and I can't recall any recent conversations on here about sponges. If you haven't had any luck with the search box, we'll have to wait for someone to come on who can help. I can't recall reading much on here that makes me want to try them. I am of the impression that rectocele doesn't respond well to sponges or pessaries, and my one session of experimenting with a tampon pretty much convinced me that was true.
I know there are some who have found sponges useful. If you think they have possibilities for you, just keep experimenting I guess. What you describe doesn't sound very comfortable. - Surviving
louiseds
July 1, 2012 - 12:54am
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urine in the sponge
Hi Chappie
If you urinate in firebreathing posture, with your belly down low, and arms resting on your knees, with lumbar curve intact and your tailbone raised, you will find that the urine will flow forwards, rather than backwards into your vagina. Then the sponge will not get soaked in urine. You can keep your thighs on the seat, and just raise your butt a little off the seat. Can you do that? When you think you have finished, stand up slowly from the half squat, then sit down again, and you might find that a few more drops will come out. You can repeat this a couple of times until no more comes out. This is what we call LoPo. It is based on how animals empty out.
If there is a bit of rectocele below the sponge you could try not inserting quite so far, or use two sponges, but I suggest that you insert the sponge by doing some firebreathing first, to pull your pelvic organs further into your body before inserting the sponge. This will help to stretch out your rectum before the sponge is in there to support it.
Louise
chappie
July 1, 2012 - 7:19am
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Sponges Louise and Surving 60
Oh my, I was thinking backwards! I do squat so of course things are moving forward. Sometimes there is so much to think about, and brain power is feeling a bit overwhelmed still.
The sponge helped keep things in place and I washed all of my floors on my hands and knees to keep things in place. I felt better last night. However, I can't urinate easily with the sponge in place and that concerns me. I am going to keep at it a bit, but I can see the help in a pessary while we are working on the WW and strengthening. It helped my back pain tremendously.
Thank you,
Jamie
louiseds
July 2, 2012 - 8:03am
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If it stops the flow, then take it out.
HI Chappie
Perhaps you could take the sponge out once a day, and have a really good wee, to clean your bladder out.
marigold2
July 2, 2012 - 11:26am
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experience with sponge
I have used a very large Dalamata fine bath sponge from PureSponges UK - if you have tried a 'prolapse' sponge, the chances are it is not big enough. I self explored in the bath and found that it is possible to reach with fingers quite high up in the vagina. So I figured that I could push a sponge up high too. It has given me relief for a few hours until i need to use the toilet, at which time, the sponge eases downwards. So I have either pushed it back up or fully reinserted. The downside is a slight pressure , but it is a great relief not to have the ache and bulge of a rectocele. I have only used it a few times as I am a teacher, and do not have thefacilities to insert in school - need to lie flat on a bed. When I tried a prolapse sponge for the first time, I had the same problems as you, wee dribbled over it. this still happens with the larger sponge, but I don't consider that an issue. I plan to use a sponge more as soon as school holidays begin. Also need to purchase another - unfortunately they are expensive -as i left mine soaking or too long and it has begun to disintegrate. Hope this helps.
louiseds
July 3, 2012 - 12:14am
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What size is the sponge that works?
Hi Marigold
I am wondering if the pressure you are feeling is because of the prolapse, or because the sponge is too big?
I agree that the prolapse sponge may be too small, but how much bigger is the Dalamata sponge?
The vagina is a flat closed space when it is behaving itself. I would be wary of holding it open further than is necessary. Isn't it strange that you are not worried about the pressure from the sponge, because you know it is there, and that you can remove it any time you want? Similar pressure from prolapsed organs might be driving you nuts, if you couldn't do something about it.
There is an aspect to Whole Woman work which touches our need to be in control, or at least to know what the limits are; to have some certainty and predictability.
Louise
JaneJenkins
July 5, 2012 - 7:47am
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Use of sponges
Hello,
Im new here and hope I am replying in the correct place. Reading about sponges. I haven't used them, but was under the impression they are for menstruation rather than a prolapse? Would the sponge give enough support? My main concern would be the accumulation of bacteria collecting in the spong. I could be way off the mark though.
I have a grade 2 rectocele, which really gets me down on the days I can't empty my bowels. I have changed my diet which has helped a little.
I also have genuine stress incontinence and am afraid due to it getting worse I may have a cystocele starting, but am to scared to see the doctor (who isn't much help anyway)
I have read up on these but there isn't much available by means of what to do if you have them.
I bought an Incostress from Boots (UK) which has stopped my incontinence when I use it but its not a solution to my prolapse. I was wondering if anyone has heard of the Mayan abdominal Massage? I read a few things about it but don't know how accurate the information is or if it will really help.
Now my incontinence is under control, if anyone can suggest how to deal with a rectocele I would be eternally grateful. Are there exercises to cure it?
Thanks in advance.
Surviving60
July 5, 2012 - 7:57am
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Hi Jane and welcome. Have
Hi Jane and welcome. Have you looked around this site? Adopting Whole Woman posture is a way to start training your organs to go back into the relaxed lower belly, instead of pushing downward into the vaginal space. Check out the FAQs, the videos on the Resource page, and read the Forums and articles. If you use the search box on this forum, you can find some posts about Mayan massage (generally speaking, OK but doesn't do anything for prolapse) and also sponges (used by some, not helpful for others). The main thing is to start learning about the posture correction; this is not a posture "invented" by Christine Kent, but rather, it is the natural posture we all had as children, before we were taught to suck in our guts and tuck our tailbones, which over time will send the organs southward. Read up and ask questions here! - Surviving
louiseds
July 6, 2012 - 12:25am
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Use the search box
Hi Jane
You can also use the search box to look for particular keywords too.
JaneJenkins
July 7, 2012 - 3:14am
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Thank you
Hello Surviving60, thank you for the reply and very useful information. This site is a wealth of help and the women here are amazing. Oh, posture! I'm the worlds worst, even at my desk working with the computer I tuck my legs up on the chair and crunch forward. Since reading things on this site, this is the first thing I have to stop.
Today my rectocele is playing up big time and I have a lot of pain. Can only partly empty my bowels. My own fault, I gorged on peanut butter and white bread yesterday and now paying the price today! Back to high fibre today.
Thanks again for your support and I look forward to learning more from this group and spreading the word about the help on here.
JaneJenkins
July 7, 2012 - 3:19am
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What about silicone pessaries?
I'm really concerned about the bacteria which can collect on a sponge and transfere into the vagina and even into the urethra causing bladder infections. Why not use a silicone pessary? They have all sorts, sizes (you have to be measured by your doctor) if you are in the NHS, forget the plastic rings (yuck cheap and nasty and can cause major issues if left in too long) but the silicone ones are better. I have a friend who uses the cube pessary (she has a uterine and cystocele prolapse) I don't find anything for a rectocele at present, but will be going back to my doctor to ask as its getting me down now.
louiseds
July 7, 2012 - 7:55am
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ring pessaries
Hi Jane
Have a look around the forums and search "ring pessary". I think you will find that the ring pessary is one of the most popular types among our Members. It allows the vagina to remain flat closed, as it normally is, but provides a kind of framework for the front vaginal wall to lean against and prevents it from ballooning out quite so much. You can't really argue with the women who wear them successfully. They may seem to be cheap and nasty, but they do seem to work the best for simple cystocele. The other style that seems to have a use is the donut pessary, which can be useful for a woman who has had hysterectomy, and needs a pessary that will occupy some space in her pelvis. However, women have tried many different types of pessary. It often takes a few tries to get a size or type that fits correctly. I wouldn't be discouraging any woman from using any style of pessary if she finds one that works! Expensive and complicated is not necessarily better than cheap and simple.
Does your friend remove her cube pessary for cleaning, and replace it herself? It is always good to know about real women's experiences.
I think you will find that the best thing for rectocele is abdominal vacuum exercises like Firebreathing and nauli, or even a simple inversion of the torso in a deep hip hinge, and jiggle around a bit to mobilise the organs. A pessary might be useful, but we wouldn't recommend it as a treatment of choice.
Actually, any pessary left in place for too long *can* cause problems, but there have been many cases of women having a pessary in for years with no ill effects. I just wouldn't want to try it. I can see why the body would object. I have never found a pessary to be worth the other problems it causes.
The aim of these exercises is to take the weight off the rectum and allow the sigmoid colon and rectum to move up out of the pelvic cavity, and forward into the abdominal cavity. Moving these organs forwards and out of the pelvic cavity allows the rectum to stretch out, so it is less prone to bulging outwards when it fills. Also the top of the vagina moves backwards, so the uterus and bladder are not on top of it, but in front of it. They may press backwards, but in doing so, they flatten the front vaginal wall against the back vaginal wall, so it is not prone to opening out and allowing the bladder and rectum to impinge on it.
Re cleaning the sponges, you can reaad the FAQ's about sea sponge cleaning at the Jade and Pearl website, http://www.jadeandpearl.com/catalog/sea_pearls_faq.php . There are several different methods you can use.
Cheers
Louise
JaneJenkins
July 8, 2012 - 8:28am
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wow thank you Louise
gosh so much information you have given me to think about.
Re my friend who uses the cube, yes she removes it daily for cleaning as advised by her doctor.
I will look at the FAQs regarding the sponge, but am not convinced it will help me. (but never knock it until you try it I guess).
re your comment "I think you will find that the best thing for rectocele is abdominal vacuum exercises like Firebreathing and nauli, or even a simple inversion of the torso in a deep hip hinge, and jiggle around a bit to mobilise the organs. A pessary might be useful, but we wouldn't recommend it as a treatment of choice. "
I have never even heard of these and will investigate into this, I will let you know how I get on after trying this method.
It's been playing up more the past few days and on these bad days, I get to the point of being afraid to eat incase I cause further impacting of the bowel. Its a vicious circle. I need to get this sorted sooner rather than later, so thank you for your words of wisdom, they are very much appreciated.
Jane.
louiseds
July 9, 2012 - 3:23am
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An occasional enema
from the pharmacy can be a wonderful relief if you are really worried about being futher gummed up by eating. Being emptied out will may relieve your worry and 'reset' your gut.
Louise :-)
marigold2
July 16, 2012 - 12:54pm
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sponge pessary
Hi all
Sorry for delay in replying to the discussion. Louise, you wondered what size sponge I use. My original dalmata fine sponge (which didn't itch at all) was perhaps 10cm length, maybe 6cm width, and i trimmed it to a tidy oval. I have just thrown it out, as it was beginning to disintegrate, not because I've inserted it more than a dozen times, but because I think I have left it too long in between use in salty water to disinfect. Trimming was a waste of time, as the sponge can squash down , whatever the shape. I have a grade 3 rectocele, big and bulgy at times, and I have inserted the sponge not in the vagina but above it, if that makes sense. The slight pressure higher up, is far better than the bulgy pressure lower down when times are bad. I gather that ring pessaries aren't much help for low rectoceles. My GP was not helpful regarding pessaries of any sort, but I may see a private consultant later this year. Prolapses are such a movable organ - I have had several days of hardly noticing it, sponge in and gardening, then a long day teaching on my feet today, no sponge in , and am thoroughly achey in my bottom and upper legs.
Oh well - school's nearly out and a holiday in France to look forward to, with I hope lots of cycling and care with diet.
alemama
July 16, 2012 - 7:18pm
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oh neat!
So higher up above your rectocele?
I think I understand how this helps. It's sort of like for me, in the past, when my colon was full, there would be no rectocele at all. I attributed this to the intestine *winding up* and pulling everything up with it. I can see how a sponge applied up high would pull things up.
Or it could be that you have a complicated rectocele...and the bulge is actually higher and lower (basically the entire back wall).
Well, whatever it is, I'm glad it's working for you.
louiseds
July 22, 2012 - 12:07am
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My opinion too
I was thinking the same reasoning for why and how the higher sponge would work.
Louise
Chip27
December 24, 2016 - 1:58pm
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position
So are you wearing the sponge sort of like where a diaphragm would be placed...just tucked
above the bone at the top of the vagina?
First time I tried the sponge it was simply too big so I had to take it out trim it and try again
many times. I just could not get it in. I finally got it in place and found it too far forward so I could not pee properly.
I moved it many times to figure out the correct area.
It felt great for 5 or 6 hours. Then I could not get it out!
I felt it was still too big for the space. I trimmed again.
I was sore from trying so much the first time so I took a break and will try again soon.