Anteverted Uterus but prolapsed?

Hi Larkspur,

A few things come to mind. First, true uterine prolapse - where the round, muscular cervix itself is protruding through the vaginal opening is quite rare. What generally happens is that the uterus pulls back from the abdominal wall a bit, allowing the vaginal walls to lose their tautness and the bladder and/or rectum to squeeze into the vaginal canal. Cystocele/rectocele is by far the most common presentation of prolapse. Yet, doctors often call prolapse of the front vaginal wall "uterine prolapse". Good examples of this are the epidemics of "uterine prolapse" in under-developed countries like Nepal. It is *all* referred to as UP, yet we know that in most women the leading edge of prolapse is the bladder, with the cervix somewhere up above.

You are right to be confused. A fully anteverted uterus cannot be prolapsed to the vaginal opening unless you have a verrrrry long cervix, which seems unlikely. Prolapse of the front wall would look/feel more like an avocado with the large, rounded end (the bladder) near the opening and the smaller bump (the cervix) higher in the vagina.

Hope this helps some.

Christine

Anteverted uterus is good news. So now you are on to figure out what is bulging in there :)

I had a very similar experience when my doctor told me I had POP. She only mentioned uterus, and she told me that mine was very very anteverted. When I talked to her some more about it, I didn't get the feeling she had a lot of expertise in this area.

I guess the cervix is the most easily identifiable part of the vaginal anatomy. The other bulges that can come and go are harder to locate and identify, especially when we're lying down(!) Or am I being too kind to the medicos??

Dear Christine
I was interested to read your comment to larkspur. When I was younger I was told that my uterus pointed towards my spine and that I would find it difficult to fall pregnant. In fact, I was pregnant already in the early stages, joke..... Anyway I went on to have 7 children all in all with my uterus pointing in the wrong direction. You mention that true uterine prolapse is quite rare. I've thought up to now that what I can see (has an opening like a smiley) pushing out of my vagine quite visibly was my uterus. Now I'm not sure. What seems strange is that sometimes it bulges out and seems more solid than at other times when it seems "floppy" and soft and a lot smaller. What I have noticed is that it is smaller after urination, so is it my bladder after all? My doctor just says I have a severe prolapse and when I asked about the organ involved he said that the bladder, uterus, are all connected so when one pops down it takes the other with it.
Knowing what really is down there might make understanding symptoms like frequent peeing and looking for toilets easier.
Thanks again for everyone's help.

I am interested in Christine's comment too. What you seem to be explaining is a prolapse antiverted uterus with the cervix (os) (opening like a smiley) pointing towards the spine. I have been diagnosed with a cystocele and enterocele but believe my most symptomatic is the uterus because I can see the cervix if I move the bulge pointing towards the spine. I also was told I would have difficulty becoming pregnant with uterus pointed towards my spine and I had 3 children. It has never changed its position even when it decided to prolapse. I do believe when the organs prolapse they do take the others with it. Without surgical interference the organs are definitely flexible. I have no idea how rare it is for the uterus to prolapse like this but I do know the symptoms can be significantly managed with the whole woman posture.

Dear Pom Pom

I absolutely adore your description of your uterus with a smiley face. Mine has more a pouted lip, ‘not happy’ look about it. I too am interested in Christine’s reply, if possible. I am not at all surprised to learn that the bladder is involved and similarly the rectum. Whenever, I go to the toilet, my uterus protrudes further, both organs impact upon it and it drops back further. I have some sunny days when the uterus is well inside my labia and so it seems on these days all is right with the other organs.

I’ve no doubt that my ligaments have been stretched, but the fact that the uterus can go up and down seems to suggest there are other forces at work rather than lax ligaments.

I was never diagnosed with an anteverted uterus. (I don't see doctors all that much. I am not very compatible with male doctors, there are rare exceptions but then I don't ask too much of them and lady ones, well we don't tend to get on. My father said I should make more of a fuss of people. If it is not in you, it's not in you). I would not have known what the doctor was talking about anyway. I always assumed I was normal, and I would not have known what to do with it if I had one.

Cheers Fab

I can relate to what you are talking about, Larkspur. A few years ago I had a very retroverted uterus, and my cervix came out of my back vaginal wall and pointed straight up. Since then it has shrunk in size as menopause approached, became anteverted for the first time ever. At one point, before it flipped to anteverted, my cervix was peeping out of my vulva, hard up against my perineum, with a big bulge in front of it. I would have said it was my uterus, but I knew from a previous diagnosis that it was my bladder. My bladder had rolled back so far that it had dragged my uterus back with it. The uterus would have been vertical, with just the cervix poking down low, wearing its smiley face. Technically I suppose my uterus was prolapsed, because my vagina was basically horizontal and the cervix was simply there because it was joined to the top of my bladder which had fallen backwards. The uterus was standing upright, squashed and supported at the front by my prolapsed bladder and at the back by my rectocele. But the uterus was the least of my problems.

I imagine that the doctor might have thought that you would not understand 'cystocele' or 'rectocele', but you would understand prolapsed uterus. Doctors sometimes do not use the correct terms, maybe because the words are big and unfamiliar to many people; maybe because they can't do a lot about any of them without surgery, so they might not see the significance of using one word or the other. Or perhaps they don't fully understand the different prolapses? Or they can't be bothered explaining? Or you didn't challenge it, and ask them to explain?

Pelvic organs are very mobile creatures, loosely tethered to each other and to the pelvic structure. They can wander around all over the place, particularly in a woman who has had babies. I would not be surprised if a doctor did get them mixed up sometimes. It is easy to have a poke around when your patient is anaesthetised, but when she is fully conscious they cannot be as vigorous with their examinations.

Anyway, you know what is happening now.

Hello again and much gratitude for all The support ,information ,and beautiful camaraderie shared at this forum.It's such a gem.I've read some excellent detailed explanations of how WW posture works,when you have an anteverted uterus.Could someone explain how it works when your uterus is retroverted,and comes all the way down to feel "bulgy" on the worst days.Also have a cystocele and rectocele.I'd just like to understand how it applies to us ladies with "smiley faces" as I read in another thread.Thanks so much in advance.

As I see it. Anteverted uterus means one leaning over the bladder and the pelvic bones. This is its normal place. The retroverted uterus means one that has slipped back and is leaning back suspended over the vaginal canal. The prolapsed uterus has fallen down into the vagina and comes all the way down to feel bulgy on the worst days as you describe.

The WW posture is important for all three positions of the uterus. The anterverted because although it is in its right place, the modern ‘equality’ in fashion and exercise means that women are encouraged to stand straight backed, shoulders back and tummy sucked in. Too much of this is indicated in developing prolapse. The retroverted uterus although usually temporary and not normally a great worry to medicos still will ideally go back to where it belongs and of course the prolapsed uterus is a big worry to its owner and a lot of work with posture is necessary to send it back up and forward over the pelvic bones.

Carrying your body in WW posture with lumbar curve in place makes room for the pelvic organs forward in your lower belly which is no longer straight up and down, but in a smooth curve starting from under your ribs running down to the pelvic bone, and breathing from the lower belly as in diaphragm breathing in posture works to achieve the returning of the organs to their true place.

Christine’s book is invaluable and her video exercises have been designed specifically to be safe for prolapse.

Best wishes, Fab

I have the book and some videos.Just getting started but have been very serious w/ posture and diet for 2 weeks now.I had severe tailbone pain,and now it's improved a bit(that quickly), but the sacrum and low back are flaring up in the evening,so I have to go very slowly with the exercises.I was wanting a good explanation of how it all works and you gave it to me.Thanks again.Oh by the way,in the beginning is it common to feel bloated at the end of the day from the new relaxed belly?I'm not constipated.This diet is sooo beneficial plus all the great tips gleaned in threads,has me more regular than I've ever been,since the POP began.One last question-If you can't bend over and put your tail bone in the air,is there a modified position, to begin Fire-breathing? Just
like so many others have said,I feel really lucky to have found the site and shudder to think of the consequences.I only wish I would have found it sooner:)
Thanks again in advance,and a warm hello to Takecare,Nanajoy

P.S. Takecare, you said you liked my username:) With all this year of Back problems and the Pop getting worse,I wanted to pick a nice uplifting name to work toward a place of better health,and my grandson calls me nana,and I'm daily visualizing being able to do more with him.That's where my name came from...Hope everyone on the forum is finding the info they need for their path to wellness

Dear Nanajoy

I’m really glad to hear that you are making such good progress using Christine’s book and videos. No flies on you. Yes, the posture and exercises can take a toll on your lower back and sacrum initially, until your back muscles build in strength.

I don’t think it would be the posture causing a feeling of bloating. It could be something in your new diet. I don’t know what changes you have made, but I’ve found certain foods like beans and pasta give me wind. I also found I was probably eating too much on occasion and so I gradually cut things down a bit. But that’s me and diet is such an individual thing. It’s probably best to first look at anything new you may have added to your diet and possibly in the way of soluble or insoluble fiber and then work from there.

A modified version of fire breathing would be to just bend forward slightly from the waist so that your upper torso is forward just a few degrees. Stay as much in posture as possible (the accent more on maintaining your lumbar curve than lifting your tailbone) with your hand on or about your knee so that you are minimally straining your back in any way. The main point seems to be to allow your pelvic organs to move forward into your lower belly while you take the deep breaths so that they can resonate with your breath and move freely.

Best wishes, Fab

Welcome and it sounds like you are doing really well in a short time. I just wanted to let you know that for the first few weeks, my back was also very sore and tired by afternoon/evening. I think that is to be expected. My discomfort disappeared maybe three or so weeks into this posture work. Now if I get tired or uncomfortable, a rest on elbows and knees is wonderful, or just taking a rest lying down. Best wishes to you!

Fab mentioned a modified posture for firebreathing. I would like to embellish it. It can be difficult to relax the right muscles if your hands keep sliding down your thighs.

I suggest that you make a circular sling, perhaps out of a long thin scarf, that is about twice the size of your waist, and knotted into a circle. Fold it, twist it a couple of times and place it across the back of your hips with a loop coming around each side of your hips. Place a hand in each loop with the thumbs over the top, stopping your hands from going right through the loops. Now, just straighten your arms and allow your hands to rest on your upper thighs, fingers facing your inner thighs, where they will not slip. You can adjust the knot so that your hands are as far down your thighs as you can comfortably go. It is more important that your shoulders be down than that your arms are absolutely straight. You might find that in time you can go down further, and maybe discard the loop.

It should be possible now to relax into the firebreathing without being tense in the upper body. The sling across the top of your hips will give you some positive lumbar curvature reinforcement too.

I just tried this. There was quite a bit of pressure on my thumbs but you might be able to reduce the pressure, eg by using gloves fastened securely to two halves of an old belt instead of loops. That way you could still adjust the length of it with the buckle. Am I crazy? Possibly!

Can some other members please test this method as well?

Louise

Fab,Ms. nightingale,and Louiseds,for your insights.I'll be working on it.You all are a blessing.
All the best