Rectocele....

Hi Bluesky – I gather that you are still working to get your constipation under control. There are lots of threads on this forum you can read through, if you use the Search box. Magnesium citrate, and probiotics, are two suggestions that you did not mention, so there’s a couple of things you can try if you haven’t already. I’m sorry that you still did not receive your bundle, but in the meantime, I hope you are working on posture and lumbar curvature at all times throughout your waking hours. That’s when the real work gets done…..as you go throughout your day. I’ve been really bad about working out lately, but I do stay in posture all the time (standing, sitting, moving) and try to walk whenever possible. Lift up a bit on the toilet seat and lean forward so that you can avoiding straining as much as possible. Stay in posture and take heart…..there is so much information here, that waiting for your DVD should not stand in the way of progress! Good luck - Surviving

I have no idea of the size of mine. I am not sure how one gauges that.
It all depends on what is filling the rectocele .. in other words how full the rectum is.
The size and consistency of the stool etc. That changes every day depending on whether constipated, loose, etc. That's why I believe the specialists can't detect the severity of a rectocele without seeing it fully distended.
The more you are aware of it the more confronting it can be ... so in time - and I mean maybe twelve months of doing the posture, getting the bowels regular - finding what works, exercising - walking in posture ... you will see the ebbs and flows.
I have had days which are terrible - all due to constipation - and other days lately where I haven't needed to splint and there is a complete evacuation - which to me is priceless.
So I can see a definite improvement overall in function - and function is the most important aspect.
As long as things are working ... I am happy.

Hi Bluesky

I can hear that you are very anxious about this, which you think will mean a total diet change from your favourite, and probably culturally familiar foods.

It may be too early to draw these conclusions.

You just mentioned that Indian bread makes you bloated. Do you make it yourself? Do you know exactly what is in it? Gluten intolerance is often responsible for bloating. What happens if you eat other products containing gluten? Is it made with whole wheat or refined wheat, maybe with extra gluten added for ease of processing. You might like to try whole wheat meal chappatis. Make them yourself without added gluten, and see if it makes any difference. Have you tried taking all gluten containing foods out of your diet?

I am guessing that there are just as many weird, non-necessary substances in Indian foods not prepared at home from scratch, to aid in processing, appearance and shelf life of manufactured food products.

As for giving up meat completely, ah! Bunkum! Meat is valuable food, from the point of view of proteins and iron, but you can have too much of it. I think your idea of increasing the pulse content and reducing the meat considerably is a sensible idea, something I am trying to do myself, in a culture which does not have pulses as a strong component of our cuisine. Lucky you, having these foods as a normal part of your diet.

Bluesky, I have only just come back to the Forums after losing my internet connection for a couple of weeks. I haven't yet read all your posts, but your body is the same as all of us. I am sure that your body is trustworthy enough to handle prolapse. You will eventually regain your faith in your body, but you will have to heed its signals and learn from them what your body wants, and what it dislikes. This is for life.

You can choose to go along with its needs and explore the potential for improvement of POP, and getting your life back, or you can bewail what you are losing, not make the changes, and not get your life back. It really is up to you to make the right decisions. You have found us, and are learning what you can do to improve your prolapses. You are young and energetic (perhaps not so much at the moment), and have your whole life ahead of you. It will be a full two years until you have recovered from this last pregnancy, which was so hard on the second.

You have started your recovery from depression by starting counselling. You have opened dialog with your husband. These are two really big steps. I recently started having counselling. Lifting the phone, while in a state of depression was such a hard a thing to do. Once I turned up to the first appointment I already felt better because I had started by taking an action myself towards my own recovery. Talking to my husband was equally hard, probably harder, but it was necessary that he know what was happening for me, and what I was doing about it. I am sure that he felt more secure and less anxious, knowing that it was not me rejecting him.

Keep taking baby steps, one at a time. Your progress may seem slow, but it will be positive.

BTW, you spoke in one of your posts about a cough and a dry throat. I suspect that in your distress you have been hyperventilating, and breathing through your mouth, very quickly, taking deeper breaths than normal. If you mindfully keep your mouth closed when you are not speaking or taking a mouthful you will have to breathe through your nose. This is very good for you because your nose has lots of twists and turns which capture environmental pollutants, dust and germs, and warm and moisten the air before it gets into your throat. This will mean that you will cough less, and will eventually be rid of the cough completely. Try not to cough at all. I suggest that you use an analgesic at night if necessary, to stop your throat from being irritated while you are lying down sleeping. Once you get the cough under control you will sleep better and your prolapses will probably improve very quickly, just because you will no longer be pushing our pelvic organs into your vaginal space with every cough.

In your general distress your shoulders are probably hunched together. If you use Whole Woman posture you will be consciously lifting your chest and relaxing your shoulders. Lifting your chest will automatically inflate your lungs, so you will have no need to draw big forceful breaths. Breathe deep into your lower belly, so your belly expands before your chest expands and your shoulders rise. With your chest raised you won't need to breathe very deeply so you probably will feel little chest expansion.

By standing like a queen you will feel more confident. What a lovely name, Her Royal Highness, Queen Bluesky, her silken sari shot with gold, and her subjects bowing before her in admiration of this wonderful regal Motherly monarch. Straight out of Bollywood!! Go for it!

1 Check out what is in your bread, and avoid it. Find delicious alternatives. Stay away from all processed foods. Stick to unprocessed, unrefined, fresh food, if possible. Keep your diet balanced.

2 Have faith in your body to heal ... slowly

3 Get all you can from your counselling, and learn to take responsibility for your own recovery.

4 Keep talking to your husband, who loves you dearly,

5 Be kind to yourself. Give yourself a treat, just for you, every day.

6 Be happy with taking baby steps, and learn to recognise baby triumphs on your journey.

7 Stop your coughing by breathing through our nose *only*, and watch your belly expand as you inhale, and contract as you exhale .

8 Imagine your way into being Queen Bluesky, with regal, confident posture, looking wonderfully feminine. Your weight gain will take care of itself when you are feeling better in yourself. Low priority right now. Many queens have carried more weight than they need, and it has not made them less worthy of their monarchy.

9 Keep worshipping. Prayer is good. Worship position can be very good for prolapse. Can you descirbe your position for worshipping?

Louise

Thanks for the link to the video, Bluesky. Now I know you are Moslem (is this the correct word?) it is easier to visualise what you are talking about.

We have had this discussion previously with another Member. Perhaps it was Chickaboom? I am not sure. If you put some appropriate key words into the Search box I am sure you will find some conversations about Islamic prayer positions. Only you will know what is correct, and what is not correct, particularly for women, and how much room you have, particularly in the hands on knees position and the kneeling position, for fine-tuning your posture to keep your lumbar curve intact while bending over, as well as when standing and moving around. The lumbar curve really is important for keeping your uterus and bladder forward, over your pubic bones, and your rectum stretched out, and not pushed down into the back of your pelvis by the weight of your intestines. This is because your rectum is loosely joined to your back vaginal wall, and your front vaginal wall is joined loosely to your bladder. When you move your bladder forwards your uterus will kind of roll forwards over the top of the bladder and pull your rectum up and forwards with it.

Being covered from head to toe makes learning the Whole Woman way easier in a way, because you can do things with your body that uncovered women find makes them self-conscious. However, I guess there are certain body language factors that you might have to exercise care with when in public.

Bluesky, it sounds like you have had a really tough time recently. You are so strong. I do hope that your life and your family's life will be able to stabilise a bit and allow you all to heal from what you have been through. Stay with us so we can encourage you and help you in any way we can.

It is frightening to think about the way life can change in an instant, and be totally out of control for a while. I am sure that your faith will get you through this and that life will get better. You will look back on it in a few years and wonder how you managed. You have survived these difficulties once. The experience has strengthened you greatly.

Do you have other women nearby, or a community group, where you can share your life with other women? You might not feel very strong right now, but women can help each other and you all grow stronger.

So glad to hear that you have home made wholemeal chappatis. I haven't made them for a long time. I will try making some. Remember to keep plenty of vegetables in your diet too. Brown rice would be more beneficial to your digestion and your body than white rice if you can manage it.

Best wishes

Louise

Mmmmmm... I looove Indian food. I am salivating just thinking about authentic biryani and warm homemade chappatis.

about prayer.. Yes, Louise is right, one of the first questions I asked when finding wholewoman was about Islamic prayer positions. It's fascinating to me that learning about wholewoman posture and principles taught me to pray correctly for the first time ever. I mean, the correct prayer descriptions are there but I never applied them properly till I learned WW principles. [And that is the problem with much of the Islamic religion, unfortunately, if I may go off on a tangent, - so much of it improperly applied and understood, hence a horrible rep for a beautiful thing.]

Anyway, I have lunch to make and a deadline to meet but I will try to be back this evening with info, bluesky, on how you can use daily prayer positions to help get your pelvic organs back to their proper places.

And Louise! Welcome back

:-)

Louise

I have also had days (hurrah!) when I don't need to splint at all...
But with me, the rectocele gets packed when I have a type of loose stool. And I seem to have problems with complete evacuation when it happens...this causes a discomfort...I hardly ever get constipated..
I have been using a different type of probiotics and they really help me...(OptiBac Probiotics - For bowel calm Saccharomyces Boulardii)...

Much of Salah is very good for the pelvic organs - particularly when the head is lower than the hips.

What is hard on the female body is the prayer position - or Child Pose of yoga - where thighs are together and spine is rounded over them. We do the same thing, but we widen the thighs so the belly and lumbar curve can move forward. Surely I would think this small but important change could be made by women - especially if the body was covered. It makes the difference whether internal pressures are pinning the organs into position, or pushing them backward toward the pelvic outlet.

I make fresh-ground chapattis all the time! :)

Bluesky, you can forgive yourself for sleeping on your tummy. I have never heard of sleeping on your tummy as being a cause for prolapsed bladder.

When we are lying down gravity is acting either through the belly or through the spine, instead of down the vagina. Lying on your back may mean that your organs are not in their correct positions as they would be when standing, but these correct positions are only correct because of the direction of gravity when we are standing.

When a woman develops pelvic organ prolapse it may manifest as one of the 'celes or more. Just because one particular organ prolapses at a particular time does not mean that a recent preceding event caused it. There are many causes, and they usually happen over a period of time. When our bellies are constantly changing with pregnancies there is a lot of stretching and shrinking going on, and a lot of organ repositioning after the birth. The birth itself sometimes doesn't go smoothly. There are sometimes episiotomies, and worse tearing than natural tearing often results from these. There are lifelong bowel problems with chronic straining on the toilet. There is over-exertion or non-controlled direction of exertion. Lastly, there is lifelong bad posture. This is the most important factor and it is something that we all have control over, unless there is a physical disability that interferes with optimum posture.

You are not to blame! Did you hear that? Now, repeat after me ...

I am not to blame for my prolapses. I am not to blame for my prolapses. I am not to blame ...

You will find your way through this. You have made an excellent start. There is much to learn. Check out all the resources on this site. The Resources Tab, the FAQ's tab, and of course Christines's book which has lots of theory and her DVD's, with simpler visual information and exercise workouts to help your body to become stronger and more flexible, to support your posture.

If you would like to correspond with Chickaboom, just say so on the Forums and I will email Chickaboom and ask her permission to pass her email address onto you. I have access as an Administrator to everyone's email addresses but I only share them with specific permission from both parties. We do not have a private email feature on the Forums at the moment.

Louise

See what you glean from your Bundle, Bluesky. I will contact Chickaboom.

Recovering from pregnancy can take a long time. We think it is about 2 years postpartum before reversion is as good as it it going to be, so you still have a long time until then.

You will get an introduction to firebreathing in the book. This is a technique for drawing the pelvic organs deep into your body. Firebreathing and its companion exercise, nauli, done several times a day, will help your organs to find their original positions. The DVD called Third Wheel, is based on Firebreathing. There is also a lot of discussion on Firebreathing on the Forums. Use the Search box to find these topics. I am wondering if the stretching pain you can feel at night is because your pelvic organs are not yet back where they belong. Even doing some cat and cow exercises on all fours, with some firebreathing, on your bed before retiring will help to get them forward before you lie down for sleeping.

While choice of lying down position doesn't really matter because gravity is acting through the spine or tummy, the flattening of the spine while lying on the back, or flattening of the tummy from lying on it, will push your organs into the back of the pelvis. Theoretically the best position for sleeping is probably half on your tummy, like first aid recovery position, so your tummy is not squashed, and you still have a lumbar curve. I tend to sleep on my back.

When I awoke this morning (on my back) I had a feel in my vagina, while I was still lying down. It felt kind of crowded, with both the posterior and anterior vaginal walls poking down into my vulva, like all my pelvic organs were a big bag of jelly, which they are. As soon as I stood up that fullness went away. I have been fine all day.

You will find that your pelvic organs move around a lot. Any position with the torso upright and lumbar curve in place is where our body can support them best.

Enjoy your reading and viewing.

Louise

Bluesky, I just went back and tracked your messages. Woah what a lot you have been through, two babies in one year is definitely not easy on the body. Being emotionally disconnected from and arguing with your husband is sure to make things even more difficult. It is at times like these of physical and emotional/mental difficulties that our bodies collapse as a way of wake up call.  They're screaming to us to help them. I've noticed that many of the women who come here do so at a very low point in their lives. Prolapse has a sneaky habit of appearing just during those times!

You seem to be a devout and religious muslim and I think you can use this to your advantage by lengthening your prayers and spending time in each position, just praying to God. It has been my experience that Islamic prayer positions can help reposition pelvic organs (ie reduce prolapse) but *only when performed correctly*. My husband had been telling me for years that my back isn't as straight as it should be in rukoo and I used to dismiss his words, thinking he was just more flexible than I could ever be (he was a dancer in a past life).

After finding WW, I quickly realized that prayer could be used to my physical benefit. I dug out all my books about prayer and realized how woefully incorrect my prayers had been performed all these years. If I had indeed been performing them according to prophetic tradition (which are so explicit and descriptive, it's a wonder we go wrong!), I wonder if i would have the same extent of prolapse that I do have now.
 
Now, I understand that you are Indian, correct?  I do know that Muslims from your area have the understanding that a woman's prayer should be different from the man's and that she should hunch her back and tuck her behind in so that her prayer is 'modest' and she doesn't attract the attention of men. Truth is, the prophet only came with one description of prayer for both men and women. He did not specify anything about a woman tucking her bottom in during rukoo, for example, because she might look too sexy. The way that issue was addressed was that if women and men pray together, women should pray behind the men, not in front of them (can you imagine how distracting that would be lol). So this might take some getting used to on your part. Whenever someone tells you that you are not praying as a woman should pray, simply ask them for the prophetic tradition that states that women's prayer is different. There are none.

The four main components of prayer can all be used to your advantage:

1- qiyam (standing). You stand in WW posture.

2- rukoo (bowing). When done correctly, your uterus and bladder should sit in your belly. Your hamstrings and calf muscles will feel it at first (oh boy will they). Your back must be totally straight. Prophetic tradition says that if water were to be poured on your back, it would not roll off. That is your measure for correct rukoo. This is now my favorite position, it feels so good to do. 

3- Sujood (prostration). Perform Sujood as it should be performed (hands and palms flat on ground, elbows *not* touchng ground, knees shoulder width apart, sides of both feet touching, etc.) and then (not during actual prayer of course hehe), put a finger or two inside your vagina. Where are the prolapsed organs? In this position, gravity forces them into your lower belly and your vagina becomes more taut and firm than in other positions.

Correct sujood and rukoo are both a little tricky to master (especially after years of incorrect prayer) and I suggest you read the traditions/sayings (hadeeths) carefully to make sure you are performing them perfectly, right down to the curled toes and touching heels in Sujood. Practice in front of someone if you can. If not, just keep practicing by yourself and seeing if you can tell the difference when you are performing them correctly and when you are not. As you become familiar with wholewoman posture, you notice what positions make your body feel good and how to alter these positions when they don't.

4- sitting between the sets- again, in WW posture. Pull up from your chest, relax your belly as you breathe, look at the area on the ground where your faces makes sujood so that you're tucking in your chin just the right amount.

One thing that the prophet peace be upon him always stressed was the importance of *relaxing* in each position and letting "each limb and joint take its position". There is that hadeeth where he observes a man praying and then tells him to go back and pray as he has not prayed. This happens three times before the man realizes he must give each position an adequate amount of time and not pray like a "chicken pecking at the ground". This is imperative for success in the prolapse dept. as well. Spending long amounts of time in sujood and rukoo stretches and strengthens your limbs as well as helping your pelvic organs to slowly reposition themselves.

The details regarding these positions are extensive and we can continue in email if you like. (yes Louise you can pass my email address :)). I just want you to know that, since you are already performing these positions 17 or more times a day, might as well get them correct, right? And I want yo to remember that, if you hold the muslim belief of fate, then know that this (prolapse) is something that  was decreed for you by God even before birth, and that "every affair of a believer s good for him." The question is - what will you do now with what you have?

These are pics of correct rukoo and sujud.

http://gerakansholat.wordpress.com/2007/05/04/2-ruku-itidal-sujud-duduk-...

The only mistake he has in sujud is that his feet are not touching one another as they should be. But even his toes are in correct position, which is rare to find. Do notice where his knees are placed in sujud, how far out his arms are- plenty of space for your pelvic organs. In this position, you can relax and stay for a long time before becoming uncomfortable.

I appreciate and love your sharing of this thread here. I have learned much from both of you. Best wishes and love to you both.

Chicka...I am astonished at your having described the WW approach to Muslim prayer!

We need a video...in Arabic! Thanks so much and honestly, so many women would be so much more comfortable if they only knew. Bless you! xo

Hi Bluesky - When we talk about firebreathing on this site, we are talking specifically about Whole Woman firebreathing, which is described in Christine's book and demonstrated in her videos. It is designed to create a vaccuum that helps pull the pelvic organs forward. Also, it is not the same as Nauli. For that, you might want to check out her third Yoga video. - Surviving

hopefully. Could you apply Google translator to your site? Just go into “Google Translate” and when you go in there is a heading at the bottom of screen saying “SiteTranslator”. If not anyone can go in with a copy and paste and get a reasonable translation of a post.

As for videos even subtitles in English would be a great help for many foreign language speakers, as so many can read English, but find conversation is somewhat more difficult.

for these very helpful clarifications about prayer positions for Muslim women. Once again, WW posture shows itself to me self-evident. :-)

Louise

Man I keep typing up a response and losing it. Maybe a good thing cuz each time I make it a bit more concise. Anyway, trying again-

MsNightingale- thanK you, you are truly such a dear :)

Christine- I would love to help in any way I can, seriously. I owe WW more than I can ever repay. But with regards to a video in Arabic- I don't think you're going to get much of an audience. I can't say for sure, but I'm judging this based on the responses I've gotten here in my area of the world (middle east region) when I bring up the subject of prolapse. I go to a lot of women only gatherings so I feel free to run my big mouth and talk about such topics. Thing is, no one is interested. I've had a few women say that their drs took care of such problems directly after birth with a snip and a stitch here or there (I think they're referring to something beyond an episiotomy). People here are still stuck in the doctor/medicine worshipping stage. Doctors are demigods, pharmacies are shrines which contain all the world's treasures.

When I wanted to confirm my pop, I went to a close-ish ob friend I had and asked her (after she said yes I did indeed have some, but not to worry I would not require surgery for at least another two kids hehe) whether they performed a lot of vagina fix up surgeries and she said yes all the time. When women are done having kids, they often come in for a bit of a touch up. I was floored- this is simply not talked about. With people I know intimately (relatives, very close friends) such a thing is unheard of- and yet it's happening. Anyway, so I have tried to approach the topic from another angle - religion. Sometimes after a woman performs her prayers, I explain to her how her prayers were incorrect and how to correct them. If we are friends, I tell her to perform the acts of prayer again and show her where she needs work. Then I try maneuvering the topic into physical benefit, how performing these positions correctly actually helps us physically, as women, etc. Then I go into the topic of ww posture and if I'm at my house, I pull out my book. But..I don't know if the problem lies with me, but I feel that almost 99% of the women I've talked with are simply not interested. I have a British friend who actually asked to borrow the book and said she would check out the website and forum but the subject was never ever discussed again, even though i tried prompting the topic (sure hope I didn't annoy her). I guess women at this point just don't want to talk about this, especially in real life. I can't understand it, I think it's such an important and fascinating and pertinent topic.

Anyway, all that to say- such a video would probably be much more enthusiastically received amongst western non Arabic speaking Muslim women who have been exposed to and maybe even accept the idea that a doctor doesn't always have all the answers and the solution doesn't always lie in an operating room.

Thank you for this perspective, Chicka...it is very interesting and can probably be extrapolated to women in many other parts of the world who haven't yet figured out certain post-modern truths, such as Western medicine is often not about health.

I am so happy to hear how much WW has helped you (and hopefully your mom). If we can shift the conventional mindset only a few degrees - over time it will expand into real change.

:) Christine

Chickaboom, you are not the only one who speaks up, and gets no response. What you have done is signalled that you are prepared to talk about it. I am sure that one day some woman will approach you because she has heard you previously talking about POP, or knows someone else who has heard you. Won't she be lucky!

Also, a woman who has had surgical repairs will poo-hoo what you say, because she realises that her repairs may not have been necessary, and speaking up would involve some potential loss of face, and some open regret. There might also be some denial. Older women's opinions can be very powerful. Just ask any young woman whose mother in law doesn't approve of some baby rearing practice that is well founded. Older women can be wonderful allies, but dreadful as adversaries! In very conservative societies it is their 'duty' to maintain the status quo. It can be touchy territory. Is there some shame in your community around prolapse?

One of the good things about my speaking about POP is that it becomes less of a threat to me. It normalises POP, which is what POP needs. Imagine the suffering and death there would be if we never spoke the word "asthma" in public! It is a little bit like jumping of the high diving board. The more times you do it, the easier it becomes. The more you speak about it, the more normal it becomes.

Of course, as you realise, you have to choose your time and company. 'Genuine offence' is just around the corner from being 'open' about it.

Just don't take their lack of enthusiasm personally. I think it is simply Too Much Information for some women. Give them time. It is up to the woman. You can lead a horse to water ...

I think it's a blessing from God alone and an answer to your payers, bluesky, that you found this website before anyone said anything about surgery. A surgery that will forever alter the perfect pelvic system that you were created with and leave you instead with a rigid, misshaped vagina, pelvic organs pulled to the back of your body instead of the front, and mesh that will probably begin to erode with time and leave you with a whole lot of chronic pain. Not to mention the effect it will have on your sex life and relationship with your husband.

I just want to suggest to you that you track the posts of some of the members who have been here for a while and who were once in your shoes. Mothers like yourself with kids to raise and a house to run. It's so encouraging to read their stories and learn from the things they did, their attitudes, the changes they made in their lives, the way the tackled this prolapse thing and kicked it in the butt. Look up, for starters, these members- alemama, granolamom, bad mirror, clavicula.
I hope prolapse changes your life.. for the better.

Louise,

"Is there some shame in your community around prolapse?" - I don't think so, it's just simple ignorance. People don't seem to know it exists, maybe? I don't know that I would ever have put a label to the 'weird feelings' I had 'down there' had I not set out purposefully to find an answer online. In retrospect, My mil was the first person who ever mentioned prolapse in front of me (that I remember)- after a long day on her feet she would say, 'ok I have to sit down, the bulge is there now.' But then she was an RN, graduated from one of the best American universities here, so a bit ahead of her time. By the way, when I asked her what the solution was, she said,"nothing, just surgery, and even if it hangs down to my knees I am never getting surgery." lol she knows how much can go wrong. Now when I see her and she tells me she's getting bulgy, I make her get on her hands and knees and do fire breathing with me :) (I did show her posture , but in her case, i just don't think it's something she will ever fully practice. Similar situation with my mom- every time I see her I say pull up! and she even asks me to remind her but it's not something she's determined to get.)

Anyway I think it's just a combination of ignorance about prolapse and too much trust/faith in the medical system. India seems the same, judging by bluesky's post.

Re my mother, Christine, you once said, in answer to one of my first questions here, that sometimes a lifetime of bad posture leaves deformation that is very difficult or impossible to change. That has been indeed the case so far with my mother - she still has that small, upper back hump- but I am happy to report that she says the bulgy/tampon feeling is no longer there. Could it be that because she's now a few years post M, the uterus has simply shrunk and no longer weighs everything down?

Yes, Chickaboom, the uterus does get smaller. Christine says that the round ligaments, also made out of the same tissue, also shrink, so they pull the uterus forwards. I posted about this about a week ago. "Round ligaments and anteversion of retroverted uterus". This shrinkage may be why I can no longer easily feel my cervix. During peri-menopause it was peeking out, but maybe it has now shrunk so much that it is high for good. The bulge your Mum is talking about is probably cystocele or rectocele. If we have one, we usually will have the others at some stage. The support system is shared between all three organs. Your Mum does sound like a sensible woman!!

Bluesky, good luck with your MIL. I am sure that she wants the best for you and her darling son, and grandchildren. Just remember that your body is yours, not hers. You might just teach her a thing or two over the next few years! Your babies will grow. By the time they are two, most babies can climb up to you, and hardly need any lifting at all. Nappy changing can be done on the floor, and they can climb on a little stool to see your work bench. Sit on a chair or on the floor, or a low stool to play with them.

You'll be OK. Have faith in your body's natural design.

Louise

I wish mine would shrink

Yeah, it is not all black and white, Fab, and my situation might be unique, though I doubt it. I am really just surmising why as perimenopause progressed over maybe 20 years, of which about 16 were WW years for me, my POPs did not progress any more once I started WW. They did *change* at one point, and I thought they had worsened.

I did feel a tearing sensation on the right side of my inner pelvis (while straining on the toilet- yeah, me!), and my cervix was lower after that, but it turned out to be a 'straightening up' tearing. After that I no longer felt rubbing of what I thought was my cervix on my left pelvic side wall. Soon after that, and the completion of a pergola demolition project, my cervix simply disappeared up my vagina, basically never to be seen again.

And yes, wishing it away is really every POP woman's secret wish, I think. :-(

Reality is what we deal with.

Since menopause, about 3 1/2 years ago I have felt no nett worsening at all, only improvement. Of course, there have been a few of the normal temporary setbacks, but they are few and mild these days. I can only put that down to the continual shrinkage of my uterus and related tissue, and of course constant vigilance of posture, diet, clothing, and the way I use my body.

Perhaps if you can get enough pelvic anteversion the tissue is no longer in tension, and it *can* shrink, like a spring that is stretched? Here is a picture of collagen fibres. http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/150257/enlarge . They are at a microscopic level, coiled like rope, or a spring shape, so maybe they can curl up more when they are no longer in tension, to a greater or lesser degree, depending on how they are interacting with other fibres of fascia that they are interwoven with, which may or may not be damaged? I don't have detailed knowledge of this. It is just what I find on the Net and text books, that makes sense to me.

Louise

Hello Bluesky,
Pleaaaase, be ever so cautious about surgery. I am 44 and had surgery 18mths ago for cystocele. What a bad decision it was for me. Sadly I did not find this site prior to surgery. I had instead a blind faith in the medical system. My surgery was fine for 5 weeks , but then I felt the symptoms of prolapse return, but sadly it was worse than before the surgery.
Track my user name for the full story.
But basically I am improving so much with the help of WW. How much, we will see with time, but I have faith that given the right nourishment of my body it has a great ability to heal. Posture is so much of this.
One thing I want all you lovely post partum mums to heed...is this...I had prolapse after my third baby, and to be honest it pretty much resolved without too much effort on my part. It reared its head again 3 years later. You will heal and improve so much, BUT continue to look after yourselves with good posture and care.

I wish I had had this information post partum...if women (mothers, sisters, friends)TALKED about this, AND doctors treated us as intelligent human beings quite able to cope with this kind of information, maybe many of us would be better informed, and could prevent this. Anyway enough of the soapbox.
Bluesky you will improve so much...giving it time.
Sending you Hugs
Lindy