Julie Wiebe PT

Hi DaveMayamum

I went into Julie's site but couldn't find enough about her approach to comment.

Hi davemayamom,
Thank you for your input. I've just googled in Julie Wiebe and like fab didn't find a lot of info re. her underlying approach on her website, without signing in for more info, so I didn't have alot to go on. However the information I did see on Julie Wiebe's home page didn't portray the same underlying principles as the Whole Woman approach advocated by Christine Kent:

For example:
Julie's home page promoted a 'flatter stomach'.
The WW approach emphasises the need for a relaxed lower abdomen in WW posture, partly in order to enable the pelvic organs to be supported directly behind the lower abdomen. The WW approach therefore values a naturally rounded lower abdomen and does not seek a flat abdomen.

Julie's home page advocated a 'significant core strength'.
WW is a whole body and holistic approach. It does not adhere to the view that strong and toned core muscles alone holds the key to prolapse support or general health. It doesn't say on Julie's home page which muscles she is referring to when she says 'core muscles'. There isn't a single defined definition of 'core strength or core muscles'. However these terms generally refer to the areas of the belly, lower and mid back, which includes the transvers abdominals, rectus abdominis, external and internal obliques, erector spinae, longissimus thoracis, multidifidus, pelvic floor muscles and diaphragm. The WW would agree it's important to tone all these muscles, but adheres to the principle that the pelvic organ support system is a whole body system. So pelvic organ support and general health depends on a healthy whole body musculature and rather than focusing on one area of the body.

There's so much info out there - there are often some similarities as well as differences between the various approaches to pop. I find it's quite interesting and a good learning curve to compare and contract the different approaches sometimes. However, judging by the home page at least, I couldn't see much evidence that Julie and Christine held the same principles re. pop.

Wishing you all the best,
xwholewomanuk

I have not looked at the site, but your explanation is confusing...and aren't you a PT? I hear PTs are promoting "proper" posture these days. You've been with us a long time, so you should know...is she teaching WW posture? If so...hurray! But what is all the fanfare about? It seems Julie is trying to put a new spin on something that has already been figured out. Unfortunately, at least how you interpret it, her spin seems to have some wrinkles.

What do you mean "exhaling to eccentrically contract the diaphragm and engage the pelvic floor"? That makes absolutely no sense. In reality, it is WW posture - by way of a lifted ribcage - that eccentrically contracts the rectus muscles on the *in-breath*, and allows deceleration at the end-point of inhalation.

Please explain what are the core muscles and how they are "properly engaged".

Christine

I am seeing a fair bit of endorsement of Julie Wiebe in a LinkedIn group we are both members of. I was just reading it tonight. Your mention of her prompts me to have a look at her site tomorrow.

This conversation is worthy of a blog post, which I will write tomorrow.

I still have not looked at Julie's site, but from what I am gathering from you, she is trying to explain WW posture from a PT perspective. And there are some problems with that. For instance, your comment, "Diaphragmatic breathing helps to elastically load the pelvic floor by stretching it on inspiration (much like a jumper bends/stretches their legs to jump)." This statement is approximately 15% correct and 85% incorrect and here is the reason why.

Place one hand on your lower abdominal wall and the other on your perineum. Take a deep breath in. Where does most (85-95%) of the elastic loading go? It goes to your lower belly. What is all this talk, then, about the pelvic floor when it is hardly loaded at all? I do not buy any of the 1990s PT jargon about "engaging" the pelvic floor on exhalation....unless you pull in the abs with the out-breath, which we do not do.

The human female torso is L-shaped. Almost all of intraabdominal pressure - coming down from the diaphragm - is sent into the bottom of the long arm of the L. What is left is re-bounded to the back of the short arm of the L. It sounds like Julie wants to believe all of it is sent to the pelvic floor, which is just not the case. This is self-evident. And the reason why the pelvic organs, which with their channels, originally (in the infant) formed 3 long, straight axes through the abdominopelvic space, end up at puberty forming three sharp right angles so the organs can rest at the lower abdominal wall. They are pushed, by way of the diaphragm, down and *forward* against the belly, not down and back against the pelvic floor.

The entire spin about core, floor, etc. needs to be discarded. I think primarily because it just does not pertain to the female body. Our view of the female torso (and this would certainly apply to men, too, but they really do have very different anatomy - primarily because the front half of there pelvic floor is closed off) needs to be something far more encompassing than this elementary core/floor stuff.

During WW teacher training, we explored the possibility that the long postural muscles that connect the top and bottom halves of the body - primarily the psoas - act concentrically at the lower end and eccentrically at the upper end. Thus, the bottom half is concerned with locomotion, as it has been since the time of primitive fish, while the upper end is concerned with balancing the body in bipedal stance. In WW posture, I believe it is the psoas, along with the rectus, that decelerates (eccentrically contracts) the torso so we don't go into thoracic hyperextension. The psoas and quadratus lumborum (both "lordotic" muscles) are our *true* core muscles, yet are not recognized as such.

I will write more about this tomorrow, and try to include some illustrations. I hope you understand how upsetting it is when I hear people talking about "proper posture", which looks like WW posture, yet is concealed under a veil of anatomical misconception. How does the diaphragm contract eccentrically? At full lung capacity, the diaphragm is fully descended. Why should it need to slow down? It is the muscles of the abdomen that must decelerate the bipedal motion of extension, or else with a large inspiration we might keep extending into a backbend.

Christine

Hi Janice,

Here is the blog I promised: (blog link at top of page)

I apologize if I have misread what seems like a new spin on an old paradigm.

Christine

In Australia 'fanny' means vulva and vagina. In other parts of the world 'fanny' means anus. They mean different things. In physio world 'core' means one thing. In Pilates 'core' means something else. In WW there is no 'core' , other than the musculature of the body that passes either to, from or through the torso, so it is everything from knees to elbows, coccyx to top of spine.

Perhaps we could talk specific muscles and muscle groups, rather than using the word 'core', on this WW site, because that would remove context-based ambiguities? The word 'core' is only shorthand, no matter who is using it. Using 'core' here allows too much risk of misunderstanding. It is hard enough communicating through text only. Let's not make it any harder.

Talking 'core' here is about as pointless as an argument about what apple tastes like, when one person is thinking about a ripe, freshly picked organic apple, and the other about a manufactured apple slice. They will both be right, according to their own opinions, but there will be little overlap in the two arguments.

I'm with you, Louise. I have come to hate that word! It's like the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard.

Hi Davemayamom,

I did a search on Julie Wiebe and saw you made a connection with Julie Wiebe and Whole Woman. I'll have to check it out. I have found Christine Kent to be unique in her approach to Prolapse so I am curious about the connection you make.