39 weeks pregnant and need some input

Welcome to this site. I did not have POP during my pregnancies so I will not respond to that. You will hear from experienced women there. Have you read around here enough to understand the WW posture? That is what you want to take on now. You are quite far in your pregnancy so go little by little with anything that you do. Your natural pregnant posture is actually quite similar to WW posture. Chest uplifted, soft relaxed belly, uplifted crown of the head. Breath coming into the tummy and not shallow chest breathing. Yes, it works. If you build your understanding of this now, gently but committed, then you will all ready to live this posture when baby is born. The book is worth way more than it's price. That is the first thing I would purchase if I were you. You can add the dvd's later if money is a problem, and with baby coming along, you won't want to start doing many new exercises just yet anyway. The dvd's are really wonderful and their approach is twofold -- to support the posture and to strength and give flexibility to the muscles and ligaments that closely relate to the pelvic area. However, given your situation, the book will give you so much information and if you are like many of us, you will reread and reread until you start to digest even a portion of that. There are many young moms on this site and many expecting children so I am sure you will hear back from some of them. I am post meno and have found great help with this posture....it is my posture for life now and all of my life has benefitted. Best wishes to you!

Hi Lark – Christine Kent has an extensive body of work, and everything she has produced is worth its weight in gold, ten million times over. Everyone has their priorities, and if the current and future well-being of your pelvic organs, spine and hips are of any value to you, then getting on board with this is the best thing you can do.

I have been doing this work for 2-1/2 years and I would give anything to have had this knowledge at your stage of life, and to have made this posture correction during the childbearing years. Don’t let this opportunity pass you by. There is plenty of information on this website and forum to give you the confidence to pursue this. Here it is, a gift to women of all ages, yours for the taking.

Christine has also written extensively on why kegels don’t work and why they actually aggravate prolapse by pulling the organs INTO the vagina. So I hope you aren’t still doing those. I did them religiously for decades, and ended up prolapsed anyway. I haven’t done a kegel since I found Whole Woman and I will never do another.

This is not a quick fix. Your results will depend largely on what you put into it. As Ms . N says, there are lots of young moms who have gone through pregnancy and birth with prolapse, and while waiting for other responses you can use the search box to look for discussions. - Surviving

Hi Lark, I've given birth with a prolapse before but I wasn't aware of what a prolapse even was, much less that I had one. Search for posts here by our member alemama who gave birth twice I think after finding her prolapse and found that, given the right circumstances at birth (freedom of position, unhindered labor, etc), the pelvic organs actually move out of the baby's way as it descends! That's a far cry from birthing in the lithotomy position and pushing everything out along with the baby. Also, I'm now 33 weeks pregnant and though my prolapse has not at all bothered me during the entire pregnancy, I now find that my anterior wall is low and bulging again and my cervix easy to reach. I think it's just the weight of the uterus now, there's simply no way around it. Even so, I continue to remain in posture when I'm vertical. If I'm not sitting or standing in posture, then it's time to go lie down or get on hands and knees for some relief.

Hi!
I just wanted to say hello and wish you the best for your upcoming birth. I am giving birth in maybe 5 weeks time myself. I considered c section, but deep inside I feel that it's not the right thing to do unless the baby is breech, transverse or other kind of emergency. I'm afraid that my prolapses will worsen after birth, but as I understand from reading here it probably will not worsen since we already are streched from before. This is my fifth birth in under 8 years and I am 39 years. Do you have a birth plan? I have made a post here on the forum asking how to have a birth that helps prevent further prolapse. I haven't got any direct answers yet but I know theres some ladies here that knows a lot about this. But I have found a lot of info here by searching posts. You may not have so much time for that or maybe you have, :) Maybe you can have someone helping you do the research if you are too tired?

Most of all we need to focus on how lovely it will be to meet our new babies!!!!!.

Hi there. I'm pressed for time as always, but here is my take on prolapse during childbearing years:

I have birthed post prolapse and now at 18 months pp *and* having practiced WW since 2009, my prolapse is virtually non-existent any more. I think the simple answer to achieving this is to avoid damage during birth, then immediately begin to reinstate your lumbar curve during the post partum time while your body is reverting from pregnancy.

So, as much as possible, have a vaginal, unmedicated birth. Stand your ground against your birth attendants and assert your *right* to be in whatever position feels right. Do not do any coached pushing. Our bodies are designed to birth, recover, and birth again. It knows what to do to get the best outcome if only you will let it do it's job. I birthed at home, but if you must be in a hospital, know that you have the right to refuse anything that you do not want to do.

Part two, get that lumbar curve back pronto. Walk in whole woman posture to the bathroom and back. Sit tall for breastfeeding. Take gentle walks in WW posture. Sit in WW posture on the floor, spend time on elbows and knees, do some plies. Look forward to 2 years of post partum body reversion and keep at it for the short time pop can worsen, between 3-6 months pp. because it does get better.

Finally, yes, the DVDs/book are worth the price -- Divide the price over the next 60 years of your life. That's quite a value when it comes to saving my pelvic organs and my hips, if you ask me! If you can only get one, I recommend the First Aid for Prolapse DVD. Basic instruction and anatomy with a workout you can use over and over again.

Best wishes from a very satisfied mother, wife, nurse, and Whole Woman.

Welcome and congratulations. How far are you now? It's true that I've had 5 births and our baby is going to be two in April. Sounds like you've had prolapse for a while now and even had two births with your bladder prolapse, so your concern is mostly regarding your cervix right? Usually (especially with first pregnancies) your cervix will be nice and high, and posterior leading up to the birth, eventually softening, thinning and shifting more towards the front during labor.
With subsequent births your cervix may be lower and more anterior sooner. It's all good :) Are your births usually fast?
Anyway, I've had 5 births, each labor shorter and shorter- the last was about 3 hours from start to finish. I birthed unassisted at home. Got in and out of the tub and walked around quite a bit, ended up birthing in a strange position and it seemed just right! During labor I felt for my dilation and my bladder was pretty soft and round and my rectocele was there and noticeable, but during the birth they both got the heck out of the way for the big baby head :)
Big babies are wonderful to birth, gravity is with you and it makes for really comfortable, squishy births for me. Also, I think you have less risk for nuchal hand or umbilical cord- when that big baby engages there is no space for anything else to slip through.
So, don't fear! you've done this before and it will be ok. And then you have your real work cut out for you :)

The one that cracks me up (and I don't mean to pick on anyone!!) is the 60-ish woman with newly discovered prolapse who tells me it was due to the birthing of a 9+lb baby or two. ;)

Alemama and Christine, I seem to be the slowest learner in the class here. Are you saying that the birth of a large baby is never an inciting incident to postpartum prolapse in itself regardless of whether it was a fast birth or complicated? Or, are you saying that that initial weakness has no connection with POP at a later stage of life? Or something else entirely?

... Christine is not saying that the birth of a large baby is just as straightforward as the birth of a small baby. Most babies that I have seen footage of being born are a very tight squeeze, big or small. But I am not an experienced midwife. What looks like a tight squeeze to me may not actually be a tight squeeze.

Fab, there are so many factors in developing POP. Birthing a baby is the main co-factor, but pregnancy stretches the uterine supports too. Birthing a *big* baby may be a factor, but it is more likely that the big baby was 'helped' out of birth canal, by episiotomy, forceps or vacuum, and in lithotomy position which makes all the bones surrounding the pelvic outlet closer together, which means that the birth canal is unable to be stretched open fully at a rate that allows it to stretch to its fullest extent, because the bones prevent the baby's head from stretching it slowly. A baby's skull bones are not solid. They mould and compress together to match the shape of the birth canal. There is 2/3 of a life time of bodily abuse, neglect and poor posture in a 60 year old woman, along with all the other health issues she has faced, surgery she has had, and lifestyle and food induced constipation. She has also experienced menopause by age 60. Menopause adds another layer of weakening of muscles and connective tissue.

So you see, a big baby may be a factor, but it is often overlaid with obstetric interventions, hospital conventions and induction of labour that purposefully or inadvertently damage muscle and connective tissue. I think blaming big babies is a way for hospital staff to avoid the unpleasant truth that their own practices often contribute to POP. Blaming the size of a baby can be a case of blaming the mother. Blaming the victim, particularly when s/he is in a vulnerable state, is a time-honoured way of persecuting individuals throughout human history, particularly vulnerable women.

There are a lot of women who have very big babies who suffer no obstetric damage at all, particularly non-hospital births with patient and experienced midwives who are routinely present at births where there is not the opportunity for obstetric 'help'; mothers are allowed and encouraged to labour wherever and however they want to, and babies are allowed to be born in their own time, instead of being crammed into hospital routines, under the direction of medical and hospital policies. These protocols and policies often dictate practices with blanket routines, such as doing all the admission paperwork while the woman is labouring, and insisting that she undergo a sometimes long and uncomfortable car journey in established labour to get to an unfamiliar and unforgiving, emotionally detached, cold and impersonal environment where they are being cared for during the most vulnerable period of their lives, by people they have never met before, who will probably have *at least* one shift change before the placenta comes out.

No wonder so many women go 'off the boil' during labour, and need inductions, surgical procedures, drips, and paralysing anaesthetic which confines them on a high and narrow platform and prevents them from labouring and birthing as nature intended, actively and intuitively.

That's my opinion, anyway. I imagine that you won't agree completely with me, but we have to face up to the fact that, though 'good' obstetric care in hospitals has drastically reduced infant and maternal mortality in many countries, there is often a flipside to the coin which produces unnecessary and avoidable damage to the mother's body.

She pays a price for the rest of her life, for the measured and controlled birth of a live alert baby, and sometimes surviving the birth herself, by being medicated, cut and repaired, and ending up with chronic damage to her pelvic structures and organs.

It is indeed a twin-edged sword being a modern mother whose babies all survive to adulthood, and are able to care for her, still alive at the age of 80 or more, having survived it all herself.

Louise

Hi Lark,
Welcome to the WW community and the WW approach. So glad you found us!

Yes the WW resources are definatley worth getting. They are a life-time investment in your health. The book is a wonderful resource and reference about all things prolapse. The dvd's are really helpful to visually show and follow WW exercises and yoga practices. If you like dance the 1st Aid to Prolapse dvd is the dance based WW work out. At the core of the work is the WW posture, so you need to be in this natural posture as much as possible and the exercises can help to build up the tone, strength and flexibilty in you body to sustain the WW posture and general health. However the WW approach is a holistic approach and the book offers other key criteria for understanding pelvic organ support and pop recovery and management.

The pelvic organs are relatively mobile, they need to be for pregnancy and birth. They'll move out of the way during labour.

Good luck and wishing you all the best on your WW journey!
xwholeowmanuk

I agree with what Louise describes regarding the cascade of obstetric intervention. Also, I love the quote in STWW by the 30-year midwife from someplace like Columbia (can't remember just now) who basically said the vagina has an almost limitless capacity to stretch and she had never seen otherwise.

I'm also astonished by the small-boned, extremely slender young women who birth large babies vaginally with no problems. A local woman comes to mind whom I helped with mild prolapse after the birth of her second big boy. She is like a reed and I just marveled that she didn't turn herself inside out in the process. The pelvis is nothing but spongy bone and we forget that during the birth process it is beyond malleable.

An even greater testament to the strength of the female reproductive system is the woman who had difficult births, yet did not develop prolapse until 25-30 years later. At that point, how can we blame it on the birth? How many other postural and lifestyle factors must be at work to have finally pushed her organs toward the outlet? The pelvic bones literally suspend between their ligaments and therefore, it's really the soft tissue (muscles, ligaments and tendons) that takes precedence, in my opinion.

Alemama's colorful description of the baby pushing maternal organs into their anatomic positions is the reality of a wholesome birth. The new mother who never draws up into her natural musculoskeletal framework, which allows her round ligaments to pull the whole of her pelvic interior up and forward, is the smoking gun in postpartum prolapse, not the big baby.

Christine

I'm glad you clarified that, Louise and Christine. Louise's description of the hospital birth experience sounds so like my own. I feel fortunate that I was granted four opportunities to experience the birthing process and that it was with enough differences in each circumstance to make comparisons...different doctors and midwife, different hospitals, etc. I didn't achieve the perfect, at home, natural birth; but I did come to believe in it and will always encourage it.

I don't think the childbirths caused my prolapse. I'm sure that pregnancy, induced labor, anesthetics, and the use of forceps worsened my already weakly developed pelvic support system. Chapter Two (Pelvic Organ Support) of your book beautifully describes our development from birth and the function of our muscles with the pelvic structure at the hub. I recognize now that my physical development was retarded by my lifestyle from my beginning (provided by a working mother and a grandmother on whose farm I was kept daily confined to the house and sidewalk). I didn't have siblings or neighbors close to my age with which to run and play and develop a healthy form. That's mild compared to what many children are facing today - epidemic obesity and two-second attention span - so understand it's not a plea for pity. It's recognizing facts.

My daughter has developed an obviously more natural, healthy and attractive body (only partly genetic), because she ran, skated, biked, hiked, and swam with her brothers. She has a very good chance at successful natural childbirth and healthy "afterlife" and I am so glad. She has also always had a better appetite for healthy foods, another way in which I was spoiled (an accurate use of the word) to develop bad eating habits. No excuses; I've been old enough to correct myself for a long time. I make note of it because good nutrition is soooo important. In my case poor physical development, bad eating habits (which must include weight gain), four full term pregnancies in five years with unnaturally affected births, an habitually sedentary lifestyle, and a lousy attitude all contributed to my prolapse.

I think there are also other factors in causing prolapse that have to do with our environment. I have been unable to prove it for myself, so far. For example, I was exposed to a plant mold in the same area and at the same time that mares were aborting their foals, a newsworthy story in my home state. I have heard of bait being used to attract stray cats which was chemically infused with a sterilizing agent. We cared for a stray (who became our own, of course) whose belly sagged so that she could barely climb steps. I am not saying that either of these things caused my prolapse, but they did come into my range of attention. I am only raising the question - what are the effects of environmental agents on prolapse? I would love to hear other thoughts on the environmental issue. Understanding cause is necessary for prevention.

And then, of course, there's always posture. I don't mean to minimize it's importance. It is basic. And attitude. And the hopeless of thinking that we can't make choices and take steps for our own good. I'm here to add my voice to say that we can choose to do good for ourselves. There's no way if we are doing something that is truly good that it won't be good for others around us too.

I often wondered about that having had big babies myself, but I didn't really have any real sagging down there until my last couple of years working as a nurse's aid. I was a bull of a woman, the strongest of my coworkers, always helping out, and never realizing just what I was doing to myself.

Well, we are all agreed that it takes all kinds of things to develop a prolapse, but if you can trace your own prolapse directly from giving birth, or at the very least its exaggeration to the point of continued awareness and discomfort and for it to reoccur, or never really go away, depending upon the type of subsequent posture and activity, or its later renewal at subsequent births then I think it would be okay to blame the birth as the inciting event, much as one could cite an accident and subsequent breaking of a bone as the inciting event for subsequent years of pain and limited use. Another woman could point to the onset of menopause, and yet another to heavy lifting, another to misguided, heavy exercise and so on. The fact that others seem to get away with these things, and worse, will always feed us doubts as to the likelihood of truth in our own reasoned or observed explanations. And this will compel us to look further into the matter and explore other avenues. And thank goodness Christine came up with a universal correction.

In the case of the broken bone, why did I break my bone when my calcium levels were good? Was it the nature of the fall; angle, speed, collision force, hardness of opposing surface etc. Why did it happen today when I have traversed that same stretch of concrete most days for years? What was that half inch screw doing there? And when I kicked it away, why did it roll back so that after righting myself, I slipped again? And if I really wanted to beat myself up which I understand we all do on occasion, I would be asking what was my mood that day? Was I a bit depressed? Could what I was worried about be solved or disposed of if I broke a bone? And why break a bone? Was that the safest emergency I could think of, or my unconscious could think of? And why today, I've been a bit worried about similar things and low on other days?

And to answer that: I was upset about my husband who was not looking at all well, but did not seem to realize it. My breaking a bone, led him to take me to the hospital, where he had a heart attack and was treated timely and effectively. If we had stayed where we were at that time, he would not have gotten to the hospital in time. On the other hand, if I had not upset him with my fall, would he have had the heart attack? He says yes, he had a history.

But when I ask the same questions of my prolapse, I can’t get any explanation to fit so neatly. That does not mean to say there is none. What it means is that sometimes there is a happenstance in the mix, at other times it appears there is not. The old flip a coin odds factor.

As to why little mothers can birth big babies with impunity can possibly be put to a genetic or inherited lifestyle/diet success. I know for a fact that I am the third generation with a fallen womb. This would probably be four generations if I knew more. Stories of my great grandmother’s Victorian style hysteria in the grand manner (demanded family conferences of all five married children and spouses at her bedside after a fainting fit with the wearing of corsets etc) have been related to me.

My mother and nana were both little women 5’2’ and 5’ respectively. I was somewhat taller at 5’ 5”, but still only weighed a similar 112-120lbs. What we also shared was ‘tough’ skin (commented upon by both doctors and nurses) which may be a marker of strong rather than really pliable elasticity in ligaments and connective tissue. If there is any validity in this view, then connective tissue toughness at the time of birth could have restrained the movement of the pelvic bones and thus the ligaments took more of the brunt of pregnancy and birth. I am only guessing here.

I take the point about the interventions and hospital routine. These would not have helped and in certain cases did do outright damage to both the mother and the child, but of course their lives were saved as Louise points out. However, my grandmother did not have these interventions, neither did my mother. It is these individualities which confound a generalized theory of understanding of just about anything, let alone POP.

Definitely appreciate everyone’s contribution to this thread, Cheers Fab

I wonder how Lark is going? She was 39 weeks when she posted this topic.

I didn't want to steal anybodys post for my own questions but thank you for your reply. I guess what you wrote were valuable for everyone giving birth soon. So do you know how to labor down? Do you have a description on how to do it. I have the book and dvd and are actually thinking of purchasing the video for older women too to learn other ways to do the work to.

That's cool Jeanette, I am just very distractable ;-)

Hi guys, I think there are also factors beyond our control in the causation of prolapse. I had “the perfect birth”. All natural water birth. No intervention. Everything I did was because I felt i wanted to. Yet I still ended up with grade 2 cystocele. I am of normal weight and was very fit and active before and during pregnancy. I pushed for 2.5 hours and breathed the baby down. It’s been confirmed that one of my pelvic floor muscles have torn off the bone. I no idea what caused mine. It’s so frustrating. We are going to start trying again for another baby soon so I’m here for info too. I would love to do natural again but knowing that I ended up in my position even with doing everything right the first time makes me think that maybe I should go for a c section.

Most post-partum prolapse develops not immediately following birth, but over the course of days or weeks following, which means that it is intimately connected to how we move and carry ourselves during that critical period. So there is much we can do to prevent or minimize it if we have learned and incorporated the WW posture principles and tools into our lives.....preferably beforehand. We have several moms who have gone on to deliver more kids after a discovery of prolapse, and are no worse off, maybe even better than before, because of the posture correction and the wealth of wisdom this work imparts. Prolapse in pregnancy (whether new or pre-existing) tends to move out of the way during delivery.

That being said, in your particular case it is difficult to weigh the pros and cons of another natural birth versus c-section. A specific birth injury may or may not be an indication for having c-section the next time around. And we don't know what you mean by "doing everything right" because if you were not already following WW principles, there is certainly plenty of room for improvement there! Does being fit and active involve a lot of bodywork stressing strong "core" and sixpack abs? I hope not.

I would recommend a consult with Christine, and if you choose to do that, be sure to have ready whatever information you can collect about the nature of the injury. - Surviving

PS: As this is your first post, and we don't know how much research you may have already done here, I'll give you this video to get you started.
https://wholewoman.com/newpages/video/ww101.html

this old thread was such an interesting read...
just to add to the stories of 'large babies' - I had 2, my last had a 15 inch head... I feel I would've been OK pushing him out had I gone the natural route... I wish I'd known about all this before. Whenever I heard of home births i was intrigued, but then I thought the only reason for it was to prove how 'tough' you were. I reasoned - I wouldn't get dental surgery without anesthetic so if birthing pain relief is available - why not get it? I had never made the connection between pelvic damage and medicated birth.
But as someone upstream said - they had a 'perfect' birth and STILL developed polapse.... what strikes me though - reading through these pages - is that most of the women here are healthy weight, active, often times extremely fit. I myself am a 'big boned' person (i'm 5'10''/5'11" and weigh between 155 and 170 my whole adult life) i've never been slimmer than a 6-8 but I was very active all throughout my 20s. Running, walking, and yes - a lot of crunches etc. back before kids I would workout daily for at least 45 minutes - often more.
even when I've read other site's about prolapse - every woman is asking - when can I run again? will I be able to ski? swim? lift weights?
I feel like this condition is more likely to affect very active women. Is it the running in bad posture? is it the years of crunches?
In any event, I know that a lot of roads lead to prolapse - I am just finding that a lot of the women who have this tend to be on the more active side.

Hi Jenstar...you might find this article helpful:

https://wholewoman.com/blog/?p=385

Twenty years ago a similar theory known as the "paravaginal defect" described the levator muscle tearing away from the arcus tendinous of the pelvis to cause cystocele. The "paravaginal defect repair", all the rage in gynecology, had an exceedingly high failure rate.

New theories are rare in the treatment of "pelvic floor" disorders. Rather, the same tired concepts are recycled again and again. Diagnosis of "levator avulsion" from vaginal ultrasound is highly subject to interpretation.

As Surviving said, we virtually never hear of prolapse immediately after birth, but rather 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks later. A modern "fit" body is a prolapse case waiting to happen.

The only reasonable response is to return to the true pelvic organ support system, which is a postural system. They are one and the same.

Wishing you well!

Christine

Hi Typicalme,

Your insights are right-on.

I worked with a 40-something year-old woman this week who was dealing with severe urinary incontinence. She was fit, beautiful, and doing "everything right". From a conventional perspective she would be considered slim and sexy.

From a WW perspective she demonstrated all the structural deficiencies that lead to incontinence, prolapse, and chronic hip disease. I told her I would be shocked if she didn’t have a developing cystocele, and not to be upset if indeed that were the case.

Like most women who have it pointed out to them, she understood the importance of changing her posture and making a few important WW exercises her daily routine. Luckily she is also a very motivated type, so I expect she will be just fine.

It is always an eye-opener when young, fit women struggle with WW exercises, as their unnatural breathing pattern and typical suck-and-tuck posture create problems with natural strength, agility, and balance.

Christine

In the years since I came to WW, I have completely lost any desire to watch top female athletes during the Olympics, or anywhere else. As I watch, I can't help but picture the kind of training they put their bodies through, for hours at a time, day in and day out, in order to excel at their chosen sport. Everything they're doing is going against their natural anatomy. These women *will* develop prolapse. It's not a matter of "if", but "when" and "how badly". - Surviving