New here, advice on rules please?

- There is a Housekeeping Forum that you can read through to find out about rules of posting, etiquette, etc.
- There is no 'too much information here' . We discuss everything. ;-)
- You can use the Search box to look for keywords in Topics you are interested in, so we don't have to repeat stuff that has been discussed previously. These Forums are a treasure chest of women's experiences.
- Whole Woman makes no promises about how much progress you will make with getting rid of your symptoms. It is a matter of using all the techniques that Christine Kent can teach you through her book and DVD's.
- The more you throw at prolapse the better the results will be for you.
- Having an attitude that perfect is impossible, but x amount of progress is good enough (ie being realistic);
- There is no cure for prolapse. You can lessen your symptoms as long as you are prepared to make permanent changes to the way you live your life.
- Be prepared to put in the work, physically and mentally .
- Positive thinking has a place, but only because if you are negative about it, you won't get far. On some of the other sites, positive thinking is the only option available to some women, after they have tried everything else. Often these women have had pelvic repair surgeries and/or hysterectomy, which have ultimately caused further problems, and they don't have any options, other than positive thinking, left.
- It is not magic. It is sound science and feminine wisdom.
- You can discuss other treatments, but it is a good move to search them first and find out what has been said about them in previous topics, before raising them again for discussion.
- Of course you can describe how you feel.
- Of course you can debate, discuss, and disagree with others.

I won't bore you with mystory. You can read it in the Experienced Members' Success Stories Forum.

Louise :-)

Hi Hategettingold, welcome. Yes, we discuss everything here, and as Louise says, the search box and just browsing by topic will yield a wealth of information. Ask anything!

If you haven't already, please go to the Resources tab, look for Videos and watch the first vid on the page. It is a great overview of Whole Woman and what it can do.

It has been almost 3 years since my horrible "discovery", and a day does not pass when I don't marvel at my good fortune in finding my way here. I could have gone down the surgery road, or spent my days doing crazy counterproductive kegeling, or just sittin' around tryin' to keep my chin up over all this!

We have the tools to manage prolapse here. In the process, you can improve your spine, hips and overall health and welfare. There is so much knowledge and great women's wisdom here. I feel great and I wouldn't go back to my pre-prolapse body OR mind! - Surviving

It's the posture. I'm 62 and in excellent health, but I feel like this posture correction "fixed" things in me that I didn't even know were wrong. Many women have been sucking in their bellies for so long, that it is hard for them to let go. But that belly is where the pelvic organs belong, taking the pressure off the vaginal space. Relax the belly, pull up your chest.....and look around at little girls, because you'll see that's exactly how THEY carry themselves. We just need to get that lost posture back, restore lumbar curvature, give our pelvic organs a chance! - Surviving

My body is still adjusting to the posture and overall I feel this is helping me so much. i resonate with what Surviving says about being happy to finally be in the right relationship with one's body. All my life I have sucked in my belly, tucked under my butt, bikram yoga, pilates, reveling in my flat belly. Now I am adjusting to this new way my body looks and feels. It actually feels good to let my belly swell after a lifetime of feeling paranoid that this would make me look fat or unattractive. I am developing a whole new way to be with my body and I also feel grateful for that. It is challenging and often hard and I need lots of lie down time to rest my back which is not used to this posture. The whole situation has been so challenging. And I really feel in my bones that this method is helping me heal things as Surviving says that I never knew were wrong. It's amazing and such a comfort to have this available.

Hi Ladies, I am new too. I found out last week that I have the first stage of prolapse according to my OBGYN. My mother had it too, she then had a hysterectomy, which in her case made it worse. Then she had the surgery. My Dr. said that it will be inevitable that I have the surgery too, because it is heriditary. I am having a hard time with it. I enjoy running, he said it will not help the situation. I have cramps constantly, and cannot stand this feeling like a tampon in hanging out. Is that how some of you felt? Is that normal when it starts? Do the cramps go away? I have no desire for my husband to see me, let alone be with him intimately, I am even afaraid that will make it worse. I want to get the program but, I wanted to know does it help get this back up inside at all? I don't know if I can just deal with this feeling.....Thank you. I am so glad to have found this site, because other than my mom, I feel very alone.

Hi Hopeful310. Yes, Whole Woman will give you what you need, but of course, it is not a quick fix. It is something that you work on very diligently until it becomes natural to you, and then you continue to do for the rest of your life! Effort has so much to do with results. This is not a cure. There really isn't one. But it restores (in varying degrees among women) a measure of organ support, AND it gives you the ongoing tools to manage it. You get on with your life without fear and dread of things getting worse. You stop worrying obsessively about your future. The joy returns to your life. But you have to DO IT. I had my best improvements AFTER my first year, because at first it was lots of reading and absorbing but not enough DOING. - Surviving

I agree. Is any of my description how you feel too?

Thanks surviving. I think because it's so new my mind is still going crazy and I am thinking can I live with this? But this site is encouraging. I feel like I stumbled upon it for a reason. I don't want to get any surgery, so I think I will order the bundle, and just give this a shot. -Hopeful310

Hopeful,
That is exactly how I felt before I found this site. There had to be something out there that had nothing to do with surgery! Ans, then I found these wonderful ladies! I am personally a doer, I wanted to read the book, but I also wanted to see someone going through the moves. So, both the book and the DVDs was very helpful to me. I am still a work in progress, but that's just it! I am seeing progress, and I feel better everyday. I do have set backs like everyone else, but I am moving forward, or is that upward?!! Lol!
Best wishes to you new ladies, that you find some relief from your symptoms too!

.......from your screenname, Hategettingold, that you were such a youngster. I would give anything to have had this knowledge when I was your age. I was working on prolapse big-time back then, and of course didn't know it. I was kegeling religiously because that's what we all thought we were supposed to do for our health and our sex lives, ha ha! Well, all that kegeling did nothing except help get me into this pickle in the first place. That, and years of sucking and tucking. I felt bulgy after both babies, but that subsided, as it frequently does, and I went on about my merry way.......I'm pretty sure that the younger you are when you "fix" your posture, the better your prolapse results can potentially be. - Surviving

I can't help but notice the disparity in your monikers, but what you're experiencing is the same....as it is with the rest of us here. Having a good attitude or positive thinking or hope is only the beginning. Maybe even trauma or fear or anger comes before that to require and inspire us to look for a solution. Then when we begin to find testimonials and evidence of something that actually works, we have a solid reason to expect a better outcome. So we follow the advice of those who've gone before with success and we do the work...and pay it forward. This is what true faith does. Wishful thinking and believing in what you haven't proved and knowing-without-doing gets you nowhere.

Christine Kent had the problem, did the research, worked it out, and paid it forward. I admire her for that, but this isn't a cult. It's solid information and good advice directed to an attainable goal.

Since I've been reading throughout the forum, I've found information that has provided at least two important things for me. First was being able to compare physical descriptions and do a better self-evaluation. More importantly was what I thought I already knew - until it did hit me - that I'm going to have to deal with this for the rest of my life. I'm only 62. I believe the positive methods put forth by Ms. Kent will make it possible for me to continue a "normal" life.

And talking about it does help to relieve the feeling of being alone and to keep me conscious to work on posture, etc....

Nice to meet you, girls.

Thank you all for your positive encouragement. It definetely does help knowing that others have the same issues. Thank you for all your honest answers.

To hategetting old, Seems like we both came onto this site for a reason... and at the same time. I am only 38, Have two kids, and feel so much like you do--thanks for saying you have gotten cramps! I started thinking that was another problem, because it didn't seem in what I had read that was a symptom. And I am in early menopause too, so I ruled out the getting my period idea! I feel encouraged with everyone's positive words, and think that we should get the book, and dvd. Seems like if we start now, we can prevent it getting worse at least. I feel depressed when I think of the reality of exactly what you said...that I am not 20 anymore. I just can't get over that last week I felt totally 'normal' inside and now my insides are falling out! I go from one minute thinking...ok I can deal with this feeling, whatever it could be worse, to not wanting to get out of bed because then I feel it more standing up! I know I have to get over it, and like you said in time hopefully I will...we both will! I did find under resources somewhere a link to Christine's husbands letter to husbands dealing with their wife's prolapse issues. It was good. I told my husband to read it. It was informative for him to 'get' why I have been so crazy and up and down since I found out. Plus he said running and walking can actually help! Which I was glad to learn. I had myself thinking..no more exercising either because it will fall more each stride. (thats what my dr. told me too! along with that I should do kegels!) Which if the postures we are going to learn makes us stick out our bellies...I already have a belly..with no exercise either..UGH! I try it now even and look like I'm pregnant. But if it is preventing the prolapse getting worse, I am thinking it's the better option. Reading all the risks in surgery too makes me want to try anything else first for sure! I know the positive thinking helps, but I am only human, I'm sure even with faith and thinking positive, my mind will get the best of me some days to come...but this site and the stories and advice has made me feel so much better about everything! Thanks for sharing!

Yep, walking in really really excellent WW posture is about the best thing you can do. Remember that it isn't just about relaxing the belly, but also pulling up the chest. That's where the lumbar curvature comes from, and it's why you don't need to think about trying to arch your back, or anything like that. Shoulders down, but not pulled back.

When I was learning this posture, and trying to make it a habit, it was my desire not to flaunt my "beer belly" that helped me remember to keep that chest pulled up strongly. I'm normal weight, but I do have a gut! - Surviving

When we are worried, anxious, frustrated, and feeling down, we tend to hunch over, and slouch, and look down, both emotionally and physically.

Whole Woman posture will have you lifting your chest, putting your beautiful breasts right out the front. Your lumbar (lower) spine will come forward and bring your belly forward, so it feels slightly stretched. Your butt will be more prominent. Your pelvis will drop forwards and your pelvic organs will move forwards to a position on your relaxed lower belly, sitting on your pubic bones, further away from your vagina. Your neck will become longer and your head taller. You will learn to breathe with your diaphragm, rather than your chest and shoulder muscles, so that your belly expands when you inhale, and comes back in when you exhale. This allows your shoulders to relax. This is the nub of it. All our self-protective muscles, the flexors, that curl us up and protect us from whatever we think is threatening us, need to be relaxed so they can stretch out to their full length, and the extensors, the muscles that make us taller and more upright, need to become engaged, to make our posture more open, and ready to take on the world.

Now, do you feel like the Queen that you look like?

So, you have to kind of fake it until you make it. Get yourself into posture and keep refining it as you go. The more you do it, the stronger your straightener-upper muscles become. You will find that you can become a bit more upright every month, as long as you keep pushing it a bit further. Eventually it becomes intuitive, and when you feel that pressure in the vulva it is a signal to straighten up again. Extension of the spine is self-limiting. The design of the vertebral segments ensures that you don't extend too far. They simply bang into each other at specially designed facets, and stop extending any further.

Yesterday I was washing king size woollen blankets in the bathtub, then transferring them to the washing machine to spin, so I did a lot of heaving and shoving. It was very hot here yesterday. Once they were rinsed and spun again they only took a couple of hours to dry on the washing line under our verandah. So my back and SIJ area were a bit sore this morning. For an experiment I decided to do some spine extension exercises, sitting cross-legged, holding my ankles, and arching my back, keeping my head in line with my neck. Afterwards, my spine felt so much better, and less stiff.

Even now, eight years after starting with this new posture, I have to straighten myself up every now and again. It is a bit of a private joke I have with myself. ;-)

BTW, sex is very good for prolapse. There is nothing quite like an erect penis for moving the uterus and bladder back to where they belong. Men don't seem to notice anything different when their partner has prolapse. Their mind is on higher matters. ;-)

Louise

this site for 2.5 weeks now. that's the first time when I felt something trying to poke it's way out of my vagina. I'm pleased to read some others here at the very same stage. I'm totally freaked out, I feel like my life is over and all my plans for the future are dashed. I'm 51, had a single baby at 49. I used to feel like I was 35.

I thought at first it was a uterus but today, one of my worst days, i took a look and I think it's bladder which I think is way worse!! though i have zero symptoms no pain, no urine problems, nothing. just a feeling like a tampon trying to fall out.

I'm so scared. but im waiting to find out exactly what it is before I do anything. Though I have been doing some yoga stretches and some walking more than usual.
so hello! Hategettingold and hopeful310 I think we are at the same stages and I look forward to reading more about how you two are coping.

Silly me!

Hi again HGO - as a ceremonious ending to old misguided approaches to prolapse - it's time to drop kegels from your routine. Go to the blog and look for the article "Just Do Yer Kegels". They are pulling the organs in the wrong direction and doing more harm than good. - Surviving

Hi newigirl - So if you've been stalking lately and reading recent posts, you pretty much know where we are coming from here.

That shocking and seemingly out-of-the-blue discovery, sounds pretty classic. If you are looking to get a diagnosis, that might make you feel better to know just what it is. Though be aware that "diagnosing" prolapse is not very scientific since they are constantly on the move, and doctors generally examine you lying down. So don't get too hung up on "degrees" of prolapse or any of that stuff.

Start today to get into posture. For me, just finding this site was the beginning of feeling better. My skepticism after decades of kegeling was finally validated. I realized that I did not need surgery, and that I was not alone, and that things were about to change for the better. And they did. So don't wait. - Surviving

I still feel like i just need to make sure it is ONLY a prolapse. Since I have no symptoms at all except that feeling. I just would hate it to be something more sinister and not get it looked at. Plus I do need a pap smear anyway. I am totally into fixing this myself, there is no way I'm going under the knife. Anyone who wants to be convinced just check youtube for a video of the procedure in full living colour, blood, hooks to hold your vagina open and well men with knives!!! enough said.

I used to regularly check out the forum hategettingold has mentioned. I didn't mind reading comments from the women having surgeries or kegeling their lives away. What turned me away forever were the recommendations made to women (even young ones......even BREASTFEEDING MOTHERS) to use hormone creams to build up the vaginal walls in an effort to minimize symptoms or prepare for a pessary fitting. Oh, it's safe, nothing is absorbed into the system! What a dangerous lie to tell to women. Just ask Louise about the hot flashes she got from doing this.

Ladies, there's lots of advice out there, and a good deal of it sucks. - Surviving

Dear Hategettingold,
I have been reading through the comments and agree with everything Louise and Surviving recommend. WW Posture is key. However, you caught my attention when you mentioned in one of your comments that you are still doing kegels because you are" too scared to stop." Since you have the experience of kegels try firebreathing. For me I could see the difference immediately in moving the prolapse organs up and forward. I have done kegels for years and they don't help prolapse and I think it can make it worse. You will see the difference for yourself, especially since you kegel. Christine's book and DVD plus the information you can find here on firebreathing will explain it to you. This is a great site for finding the help you need. Good Luck....

I firebreathing! once you get the hang of that, move on to nauli. when I nauli I can actually feel everything moving in and up. it is nothing short of amazing.
as far as kegels, meh. I'd been kegeling from the day I started ttc my oldest. I had muscles strong enough to crack walnuts. and still I prolapsed. so if kegels cannot prevent it, I highly doubt they can reverse it.
finding POP is a loss and the grief is real. real and predictable. you go through stages from denial and anger and finally moving into acceptance. that is not to say that the most you can hope for is acceptance, I have had real reversal of symptoms. but the acceptance is nice too, you stop letting it depress you and go back to the business of living your life.
and I am another one who would not go back to my pre-prolapse body. this 'loss' turned out to be a blessing in more ways than one.

I believe firebreathing is in the book, maybe also the DVD, not sure.been a while since I've read or viewed either.

My 'actual bulge' is higher and smaller than it used to be. Honestly, I don't even care because I have no symptoms anymore. I used to say my goal was to make the bulge disappear but its faded off my list of worries. Just so you have a frame of reference, I found my pop in my early 30's, it was peeking out already (bladder) and my perineum was pretty badly shredded from my first birth (at age 27) and not stitched or healed properly. So I was a mess when I got here.

Hi Hategettingold,
Just for your reference, in Appendix Two, pages 167 and 168 of Christine's book she describes "Whole Woman Firebreathing." If you don't have her book I would recommend buying it. It contains a wealth of information and she is academically and scientifically on the mark. Appendix Four, "What do do About Exercise, pp. 171 and 172 is very helpful for hands on prolapse improvement.
Once you digested the information in the book go on to the videos for further support. Be very encouraged!

Granolamom, I was just wondering how many times a day you did firebreathing and for how long? Thank you.

To elaborate on what NFP has said.....I had nothing but the book for my entire first year. It has a very good description of firebreathing, with photographs. But I was still holding back from really learning to do it, I guess just out of fear of doing it wrong and just wishing I could see it in action. That was what prompted me to buy the DVD, First Aid for Prolapse. Not only is it demonstrated during the video, but the Dictionary of Movements section goes into great detail. - Surviving

hi angel child (I like your screen name)
when I first learned the firebreathing technique I was doing it all day long (only half-kidding, I was obsessive) and my back started to hurt a bit so I eased up and was spending 5 min twice daily firebreathing. I dont remember how long it took to start seeing change but it was relatively quickly (I want to say a matter of weeks?). nauli was much more powerful for me, so I'd firebreathe for a minute or two then nauli for a few minutes once or twice a day and was seeing some seriously good results but then I got pg so had to stop (do not firebreath or nauli while pg) and then I got an IUD which doesnt like these techniques (I start spotting) so I couldnt get back to it. its too bad in a way because I know I could get rid of my bulge completely if I kept it up, but whatever, I have no symptoms and I dont want any more babies so its a trade off for now.

hategettingold - sorry I forgot to address your incontinence question. I am very lucky in that incontinence was never one of my symptoms. firebreathing should help restore the natural position of the pelvic organs and in theory should help reverse any symptoms that come along with POP. I cannot say firsthand if it does or not, perhaps others with experience there can answer that for you.

Thank you for answering my question - your posts are very inspiring!