third baby, starting over.....

hello, thanks for reading this. I am 60 yrs old and considering this procedure. I have no symptoms other than recent straining and long time nocturia. A couple of questions: has anyone had this operation, and how bad were the symptoms and how happy were you with the outcome and how old you are / were. Will you recommend it for anyone ?
Does anyone recommend the elders pack or regular book/dvd package for my age group?
thanks in advance

Hello sewhappy! I don't have that particular prolapse but I tried to find answers for you. Click on FORUMS under NAVIGATION (on left of the screen) then go to the forum called PELVIC HEALTH. Scroll to the very bottom of page 1 (which might change to page 2 by the time you read this) and read the link ADVICE FOR A FRIEND by Kazatti. You might get some useful info by reading all the comments by various contributers. Don't rush to surgery which you might regret. If you haven't read Christine's book, get it before you do something you cannot reverse. All the best to you!

thank you osmari, I read "advice for a friend", have ordered a bundle
god bless

Looks like your request got lost, so I thought I'd bring it up front again. There are several women here younger than I who have dealt with prolapse at the time of birth whom I'm hoping will chime in and share some tips with you. Meanwhile, congratulations on the new baby. It's great that after your second baby you recovered so well. I'm hoping for your sake that resilience is still working for you. For now, do you have the book? I read it again recently and found it very helpful to reread.

Lucky you - a new baby to squeeze and two little helpers! Have a good day.

You are welcome! I thought of something that might help you. It was taught to me decades ago. Before you get out of bed in the morning, lie on your back, pull the pj bottoms down a bit (if you wear them) and put one hand on each side of your navel on bare skin, so the thumbs are near the navel. Take long, slow, deep breaths so your abdomen goes up and down more than normal. Do not put extra pressure, just the normal pressure of your hands being there...if they are cold, that could even be better! Do that several times and then breathe normally and repeat. It might make you feel like you "need to go". It might take a few days before it works. Sometimes, I breathe in slowly but exhale more forcefully. When I first started doing this routine I did not work but eventually it did.

A few years ago I strained so much that I ended up with prolapse of both bladder and uterus. Like you, I am waiting for my bundle. Thank goodness for Christine, this website and all the ladies that contribute!! The last thing I want is surgery!!

Hi mom0201. I always thought that garments like the V2 supporter were not for your everyday POP sufferer, but more for those who have cervix coming pretty far out of the body, possibly have had repairs done, and WW work isn't giving them enough support to get through their day. Unless you are in that situation, I'd think it might compressing things too much. I honestly can't think of anyone on this forum lately who uses that unless they are post-repairs with a profound uterine prolapse. Of course, I have just described Christine in that last sentence, and I've never heard her mention ever wearing anything like that. As I understand it, her cervix pretty much stays tucked inside these days.

Walking in excellent WW posture is just about the best thing you can do. Any of Christine's routines of course. Yoga 2nd Wheel is especially good for post partum. Watch your diet, stay regular, don't strain on the toilet, lift carefully, guard lumbar curvature at all times! Congrats on your babe - enjoy life! - Surviving

Hi sewhappy. I wouldn't think you'd need the Elders version unless you have some physical limitations. If you can move, you need to move as much as possible. Don't even consider surgery at this point. I "discovered" cystocele and rectocele at age 60, and today I am better than ever. Glad you found your way to this site! Good luck, ask any questions that you think of. - Surviving

If you find the V2 helps, then use it. As you say, we are all differently affected by prolapse. I think what Surviving meant was that the V2 is often a solution of last resort for women who have really serious, longstanding prolapse, or some other reason why they simply cannot keep the uterus inside them. You may find in time that you don't need it, but by all means use it if it helps in the meantime, for as long as you want to.

This Whole Woman thing is all about understanding prolapse conditions, and finding out for yourself, what works for you, from the possible solutions.

Thanks Louise, you are correct, my comments were based on my experience on this forum, where most discussion threads on V-2 supporters were from post-surgery women with profound prolapses who needed help avoiding further surgeries. I had also googled V-2 and saw it described as being for "external prolapse". Mom0201, I'm sorry if my comments came off as criticism. Part of our job as moderators is to clarify issues for the benefit of other readers. If the V-2 feels good to you, and doesn't get in the way of your applying WW principles 100% throughout your day, then of course it is the right thing for you. Seeing that you were new to the forum and unaware you had discussed your situation with Christine, I was just putting in my plug for the postural focus. - Surviving

I know others will disagree with me on this, but couldn't even hold the posture without the exercises. They really strengthen those parts of my body and help me hold it better. Before I got the DVDs I tried my best to hold the posture, but I always found myself slouching back into my old bad posture.
Like I said, I don't know how others deal with it, but the exercises, ww walking, jiggling, and firebreathing get me through it all. Now I can hold the posture much better and without pain.
Wishing you the best.

Mom0201, I am a veteran of posture and I still feel my 'celes most of the time. I don't think there are many women here for whom posture makes their prolapse go away, so maybe you have placed your expectations too high. This is management, not a cure.

My cervix stays well inside, but my 'celes are on the move all the time. Sometimes I feel them more than other times, and they are a reminder not to be careless with lumbar curvature. Most of the time I don't think about them, and once in awhile (like after a really long walk) I might be symptom-free for awhile.

If wearing this supporter makes the difference between being aware of your prolapse, and not being aware of it, and if that is something that is important for your quality of life, then go for it! To me, the bother of dealing with something like that would not be a good trade-off. I really have quite a healthy relationship with my prolapse, because without it, I never would have found WW and made this critical posture correction. - Surviving

I have all the DVDs, and I bought them one at a time. They all have something just a little different to offer, but equally helpful for prolapse. A very good investment to me. Put firebreathing n the search box, and start at least trying to do that. For me, with a cervix always trying to peep out, this has helped a lot. I don't feel qualified to describe how to do the posture or the exercises. I just know that doing them helps me feel better. There are some days I don't notice my prolapse at all.
And follow the experienced ladies advice on here; they have helped me tremendously! Louise, surviving, fab, MsNightingale, and many more are full of helpful information.
I had to see the exercises before I fully understood them and how they work.
I hope the best for you.

As well as individual women having different tolerance for the same symptoms, I think it also really depends on what the symptoms are. I know I have had a couple of episodes of the pressure symptom and that to me was pretty unbearable. It felt like my pelvis was dragging along the ground and all I wanted to do/could do was lie down. The rest of the time, when I am symptomatic, it is the bubbly feeling of my cystocele, and that to me, is way more bearable. Not ideal, but bearable. More annoying than debilitating. So I think we need to be careful (and specific) when we counsel women about tolerating symptoms.

Totally agree, Curiosity. I was responding to Mom0201's concern that she might be doing posture incorrectly, since posture alone did not give her "complete relief from pressure". Really, does anyone achieve that? And is that even the goal? - Surviving

I find the pressure feeling is a possible result of three situations occurring either singularly or combined; some upset to the diet/elimination process, inappropriate body movement, or some ongoing stress (including overwork, tiredness etc).

All of these factors can tend on occasion to make me tighten up and then, I at least, start to breathe shallowly and thus compound the difficulty because I am no longer taking full advantage of good diaphragm breathing. (The old lower tummy out as you breathe in, lower tummy in as you breathe out.)
In this pressure feeling situation I find, as I described to graceful the other day, that it is good to sit at break time (with prolapses tucked away as high as possible) and just put my hand three finger widths below my navel and feel the deep diaphragm breathing i.e. empty my lungs fully on the out breath rather than the usual forty to sixty per cent. Doing this for five to ten minutes three or so times a day (and last thing at night and first thing upon awakening if possible) encourages relaxation and can loosen muscles and recommence the process to get things moving back closer to their true positions.

In the meantime, you try to solve or alleviate what it is that has incited the muscles and sphincters to ‘freeze’. And if this means having a half hour lie down so be it.

Don’t forget that when the pressure is on your organs, you are more likely to fight it and them to keep going to fulfill your responsibilities than to relax it. Resistance does get us through so many times, but sometimes with the pressure, circumvention by relaxation can be a better and in the long term quicker route. I am not meaning to be airy fairy or new age on this, bending with the wind and all that stuff. It is just a different strategy from a physiological point of view, wen resistance does not work.

Cheers, Fab

I'm sure that it is possible for young women to achieve relief from the pressures of prolapse just with posture. I gained the impression that mom0201 had before, and guessed that was why she held this expectation as it had happened before for her. But as it has come back again perhaps it would be wiser to work on it a little harder with exercises and walking in posture. A double indemnity type of thing which she can take with her into the future.

For older age groups I would thing that it would depend how long they had suffered prolapse before discovering posture and how they had held themselves before, and if there were any other relevant traumas in their life whether they can have expectations of ridding themselves of symptoms or managing symptoms successfully.

Of course we have to be dedicated in our practice of WW principles, and no matter how practical and reasonable minded we might be, I sure there is not one of us who does not (secretly at least) hold out the hope for a cure.

I think you are right surviving in that probably the majority of us older women could reasonably only expect to manage prolapse, but I also think all of us are truly thankful for even that prospect. We all say how much better off we are after colliding with WW and having our brains blown and encouraged to think this new paradigm through and get cracking.

cheers, Fab

Fab,
I didn't get a chance to tell you that the breathing technique you explained to me was very helpful and relaxing. It also helps a shallow breather like me be more aware of how deep a real breath can be.
Thanks so much!!

Hi mom0201,

I didn't have post partum prolapse (that I knew of) so I'll will say some general things until others with more direct experience can chime in.

The first thing to say is that it is very early days for you, and you have a lot of improvement ahead of you. So maybe doing what you are doing (posture and resting when you can) is enough for now, and trying your best to get comfortable as your body recovers from the birth.

The other things to check Fab has mentioned: making sure you are not bloated or constipated - this will intensify the pressure feelings. And trying to relax rather than tense in response to the symptoms (not easy obviously). And then I guess making sure you don't have any other sort of inflammation such as UTI or thrush - these will also make the symptoms worse.

Do you have people around you who can help out with your kids and the baby to ensure that you can have enough rest? If you feel you need to and you can, I would say lie down!

Finally, you've improved from this before, so maybe you can hold onto that, while you are experiencing these (hopefully) temporary symptoms.

Hope this helps!

HI Mom0201

Just going back to your original topic, you are only four weeks postpartum. It will possibly another two years before your body has reverted post pregnancy. The next few months could be a little unpredictable for you, because prolapse can worsen at any time in the first months, but usually by about 6 months your prolapse will be starting to feel better, maybe before.

All you can do is to use Whole Woman posture, maintain a diet that has enough water, particularly if nursing, do some walking initially, every day if you can, don't try to squeeze into pre-pregnancy clothes, be careful to keep your lumbar curve in place when you lift anything heavy, including your baby.

When you feel ready to do some more serious exercise in a few weeks, go to the Store and have a look at the previews of the DVD's. You can learn a lot just from the previews, but there is way more on the DVD's. The cost of First Aid for Prolapse may be more than you can afford, but in a sense, you cannot afford not to buy it, if you are serious about giving it your best effort and knowing all the tools that you have. It is an investment in your body, not a cost that will have no return on your investment.

Louise

The first First Aid for Prolapse DVD was published a long time ago. There are some exercises that are the same, but it is largely new, with a very good glossary of movements. Yes, I would get the new one, the one with the blue cover.

Louise :-)