soreness from "turn-out" exercises?

Hi,
I have certainly noticed hip and leg muscle pain after that work. My chiropractor always used to warn me to
use a cold pack for 15 minutes followed by a warm pack for 15 minutes every hour when possible when this kind of pain developed after a workout. You might be stressing too much; someone else in this forum will be able to comment with experience than I have. Daphne11

Oh! Is that what it's from? I'm new to the exercises too and started to feel soreness in my right leg as well. Specifically upper thigh both outside and inside, sometimes in toward my groin area, and it can go as far down around my knee area, but it stops there. I was wondering what on Earth did I pick up this time! If it's just adjustment from the posture, I would love to know.

Hi Petrified, Daphne & Kaya,

Yes, it’s very likely you will feel soreness if you’re not used to hip turnout. Please proceed with caution...but by all means proceed!

When we are born, we have a flexion/external rotation contracture of the hip, due to sitting “Indian style” in the womb. This resolves as soon as we begin to stand, as lumbar curvature internally rotates the femurs. The hip is most “congruent”, meaning the ball of the femur is pushed furthest into its socket - when the hips are flexed and externally rotated. This is why they place infants in “Pavlik” harnesses and “hip spica” casts in order to treat dysplasia of the hip. The femoral head can only shape the socket if it is in contact with it. In most activities of daily living the hip is suspended by extremely strong ligaments, rather than the bones being pushed tightly together. Think how strong and well-aligned these muscles and ligaments have to be to suspend the hip!

Women spend a lot of time in the externally rotated position - can you guess how? (hint: s*xxxxx) In this position, the soft tissue surrounding the joint is “unwound”, and the joint is relying on the integrity of the bony structures.

It’s very important that the muscles, ligaments and tendons responsible for hip function be exercised in external rotation. This sort of exercise was very common in early female dance, but today very little in our culture allows systematic stretching and strengthening of soft tissues surrounding the hips and the sacroiliac joints of the lower spine.

Without this stretching and strengthening, shortened muscles have the force to pull the entire half of the pelvis backward or forward. I usually see “retroversion”, where the hip is pulled toward the back. When the hemipelvis is pulled toward the back, the ligaments in between the sacroiliac joint at the base of the spine become contracted, further inhibiting normal movement at the hip. No longer is there proper bony alignment at the hip, but rather abnormal forces are being placed upon the socket. Malalignment affects everything below, including knees, ankles and feet. Hip osteoarthritis, knee osteoarthritis, and sacroiliac dysfunction result.

There is no surgery to fix this! However, the pain and dysfunction of lumbar/hip malalignment is so severe that it drives hundreds of thousands of people each year in the U.S. to orthopedic surgeons for hip replacements and spinal fusions.

My research and experimental work have shown that even severe cases of hip/spine dysfunction can be stabilized and reversed. More importantly, such disease can be prevented by gentle and systematic posture and exercise. It is all about properly seating the torso over the hips.

If the First Aid workout is too much, pick and choose your favorite exercises and create your own program. I love the Whole Woman Workout from STWW, but I understand that it is not easily learned from a book. However, even just a few toe raises and plies each day will help build hip strength and flexibility. It is critical that in external rotation you have your knees over your second and third toes, your lumbar curvature and all upper body aspects of the posture in place. If your knees aren’t over your toes, bring your toes in a bit to decrease the external rotation.

:) Christine

Hi Petrified,

There is an intimate connection between the lumbar spine and hips. The hips are happy in external rotation if the lumbar curve is fully in place. Crosslegged is one of the tougher sitting positions to keep lumbar curvature. If your knees aren’t all the way down to the floor, then you’re having to slightly flex your low back. I’m very flexible, but still must rotate through different sitting positions. I can probably sit 20 minutes comfortably crosslegged before I must change. If I’m on the floor I rotate between crosslegged and sitting on soles of feet. If I’m on my low, wide stool, I rotate between crosslegged and regular right-angle sitting.

I suggest discontinuing sitting crosslegged for now, and also trying a less intense workout. Try stretching out on your back with a rolled towel (four or five inches thick) underneath your lumbar spine. Externally rotate your hips. Stretch your arms overhead while holding a baton or rolling pin, so that you are fully stretched out. If you find your affected hip won’t let you straighten your knee, place a small pillow under your knee. There is more to this stretch, but I can’t explain it all here. Basically, this is a passive stretch for your lumbar spine and the lumbar/hips complex. You want to mimic on the floor how your body is shaped while standing in WW posture. So keep your shoulders down and your chin slightly tucked, even as your arms are stretched overhead.

I have no way of knowing what is going on with your hip. However, I do believe the lion’s share of hip osteoarthritis begins with the sort of restriction you are talking about, and that restriction is coming initially from inflamed soft tissue - not the bones. Before long - and many women describe the process happening over the course of only a year or so - the tissues become contracted and intensely painful.

You might try turning over onto your stomach and doing roughly the same thing. Place small pillows under your knees and lower legs, so your feet hang off the end of the pillow freely. Put a firm pillow under your forehead to hold your head up so you can breathe, and relax into this stretch. For people who can't straighten their knees (a whole lotta folks!) this is a marvelous stretch where gravity is passively moving your pelvis into alignment with your knees.

Best wishes and please let us know how you do!

Christine

Hi petrified,
Oh my gosh, such good advice from Christine! I will definetely be trying these out!

I just wanted to let you know that I had had an issue with my hips and my knee. I was actually having a stretching pain on the inside of my knee. My mistake, I realize now is that I was going too gung ho at it. I have all the exercise videos and alternated them daily, going at it like Richard Simmons on a mission. I ended up straining my knee to the point I couldn't walk on it for 2 weeks!
So, I learned to slow down my over zealous ways; now I stretch out before doing the videos, and have really been watching the placement of my feet and knees, trying my best to mimic what I am seeing Christine do. I think I was overextending.
Since relaxing it out though, I have seen even more improvement in my pop, and my bad hips have not been aching at all; they used to ache all the time!!
I guess we keep learning everyday. Just wanted to share with you...

Have a feel around that knee of yours. Do it like the old children’s game ‘are you jealous?’. Your thumb on one side and your middle finger on the other. Give it a nice gentle knead. Amongst those bumps and hollows you may find a particularly sore spot. Just concentrate your kneading on that for a few seconds and if it is very sore leave off and come back to it again later in the day for another few seconds. The sore spot should go eventually and flexibility return, but do be gentle. There’s no rush.

Also, as the pain goes down your leg, you may find circulation is a bit of a problem. I found a circulation booster (hope that name translates over the ocean) helped very well. I could have ice cold feet under socks! You put your feet on it and it massages. They cost a few hundred dollars, so they are not cheap, but do last years.

Try the kneading first; that may just prove enough along with Christine’s stretch exercises. Kneading brings comfort. We all like that.

The hip I did not knead as much more just a soothing stroking on the bone. Although I did knead the thigh muscle.

Cheers, Fab

... to this discussion is to say that I spend half an hour each day cross-legged, Burmese style during meditation, like the lady in the black t-shirt on this page, http://psychedelicjunction.com/2011/01/28/zen-meditation-techniques/ , Note the zafu cushion that elevates the back of her butt slightly . I used to get a lot of knee pain when I got up, but a few months later, I am OK. The increase in flexibility will happen slowly, so don't push it further than your comfort will allow for long periods. I also sit bolt upright with a lumbar curve at all times, except when I catch myself slouching. I rarely rest against the back of a chair.

This means when I am driving too. My DH and I alternate driving 100km at a time. I used to get feel very stiff in the hips when I got out of the car. Now I do some side and leg raises as soon as I get out to swap, and the discomfort goes *immediately* . I used to have short hamstring muscles from tucking my butt for about 40 years, and had been in the habit of doing hamstring stretches and lower back stretches (hip hinging front bends) , but the result of this was weak gluteal muscles. My side and back leg lifts exercise my gluteals before I get back in the car with them stretched out again.

The lesson I have learned is that the *whole* body needs to be stretched and extended after we have been in prolonged flexion. The gluteal group and the adductors, which allow us to lift the leg up and to the side, need to be contracted, as well as stretched out.

Just doing this every time we change drivers has made it much less uncomfortable. I also do a few of these leg lifts during the day if I remember.

I have ben doing WW work for nine years, and I am still learning things!

Louise

Yes, if you look at http://www.yogaaccessories.co.in/ , there is a red crescent cushion in the top right hand corner, a zafu, which the lady in the black t shirt is probably sitting on. A little further down there is an illustration of a mat and zafu combination in black, maroon or blue.

I like the crescent cushion because I can tuck my inside foot further in towards my crotch, but this is a position I like. If you buy in your own country you can probably buy refill bags of the buckwheat husks which commonly fill these two types of cushion, so you can make them as tall or low as you want, and you can adjust it later as you become more flexible, maybe next year!!

I made my own crescent cushion which is also higher in the back and lower in front. It gives my thighs some support. I don't have a mat, but I do sit on an old cushion from an old sofa. The cushion is filled with HD foam with a layer of Dacron fill around the outside. This gives my ankles and feet some cushioning. I didn't need it when I was young, but I sure do now! My knees don't actually touch the big cushion but both my thighs are fully touching either the crescent cushion or the big cushion from hip to knee.

Christine has taught the existing practitioners and the new batch of student Practitioners a lot about hips and hip problems. She hopes to have her book on hips published in the next few months, for all to read. Christine is the only Practitioner doing the full Hips work now, as far as I know. Any chance of getting to see her?

On the turnout, still do the turnout exercises but only do the turnout to the degree that you are pain free.

Louise

As my cute old Latin teacher used to say, "Festina lente" (hasten slowly). What a wise old woman she was! Yeah, fifth position can be a killer. The knees should be kept in line with the feet at all times. If you can't get the knees out far enough, then pull your toes inwards until they match. The aim is not to look like a lifetime ballerina, but to use and strengthen the external rotator muscles around the hip joints. As they get stronger you will get more hip turnout.